Bridge City Tools

[Rob Luter]

The folks at FWW are trumpeting the soon to be released Dual Angle Bench Planes from Bridge City Tools. Scary money. I am an extreme tool nerd. I love precision. These planes (and other BCT products) exude substance, quality, and luxury. Am I the only guy that considers them an elegant and horrifically expensive solution desperately seeking a problem? No disrespect to BCT.

[Jason Martin Winnipeg]

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2019/06/26/tool-news-bridge-city-tool-works-introduces-two-new-hand-planes

They look nice, but I want to feel wood on my tools when I work.

[Flamone LaChaud]

Holy mother of pearl . . . $900+ for the bench plane, $600+ for the block plane??!?

[Al Weber]

They will impress your non-woodworking friends when they see them on your mantle.

[Mike Brady]

Whether you wear a Rolex or a Timex, there is never enough time to get it all done right if you don't know what you're doing.

[Jim Koepke]

The article says:


you eliminate the need, space and cost of owning a low angle and regular block plane, essentials for any serious woodworker.

They are a bit off on eliminating the cost. At $689, there would be money left over from all seven of my block planes and one of them is an LN #60.

jtk

[Allen Read]

I guess when compared to Karl Holtey planes, these are a real bargain. Compared to my Stanleys, they are a ridiculous price affordable only when one has won a big lottery or come into a huge inheritance.

Since I fit into neither of these categories, I'll stick with my old Stanleys. They still get the job done as long as I do my part.

Allen

[Phil Mueller]

Pure marketing here:

“Last year, it was big news when, after 35 years of designing and manufacturing tools that were treasured and passed down through generations, John handed over the reins of Bridge City to his good friend and licensing partner, Jack Xu, CEO of Harvey Industries.”

Tools made for 35 years have not been passed down through generations. They may be, but have yet to live long enough to do so.

Regardless of the copywriting hyperbole, they are beautiful tools and I’d love to give them a try. If you decide to pull the trigger Rob, please give us the full report.

[Andrew Seemann]

If it floats your boat, go for it. Myself, the irons cost more than most of my planes did.

[Eric Rathhaus]

They seem so "precious" I'd be afraid to use it. Imagine seeing it knocked off your bench. maybe I'm more clumsy than most?

[Jim Koepke]

They seem so "precious" I'd be afraid to use it. Imagine seeing it knocked off your bench. maybe I'm more clumsy than most?

Hopefully at that price they are made of ductile iron.

Though it could be the price is due to them being made of unobtainium.

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

The cost to produce a fine product is always considerably higher at a tiny manufacturer.

[William Fretwell]

Rob I have to agree with you, very expensive solution looking for a problem. I looked at their bench vise this morning. The mounting worried me, only six screws, the usable bench thickness limited to 7.5cm, the large pipe in the middle really limits the vise usage.
Compared to a traditional Danish vise: You can have 5” or more bench depth with its grip! Full usage of vise face all the way to the floor. All for $40 plus some wood. No mounting worries.
My whole bench was $600 of materials!

[Frederick Skelly]

I dont personally have a need, or even a "want" for Bridge City Tools like these. But finely crafted stuff really is nice, and if that's what you work for, I get that.

And "expensive" can be an eye-of-the-beholder thing. Plenty of retired guys here laugh at us for buying "just" LV or LN tools, let alone BCT stuff.

(Full disclosure: I did buy one teeny tiny BCT pocket square from LV for $23. I keep thinking about sending it back because the "magnet-mounted sliding steel fence" is just chintzy sheet metal.)

Just my $0.02. :)
Fred

[Bill Carey]

Holy mother of pearl . . . $900+ for the bench plane, $600+ for the block plane??!?

And to think I bought a Caliastro #4 because I was worried about the cost of the LN. Sheesh.......

[Stewie Simpson]

The cost to produce a fine product is always considerably higher at a tiny manufacturer.

Brian; I have my doubts that Harvey Industry Co. Ltd; Nanjing, Jiangsu, China, would qualify as a tiny manufacturer.

https://harveywoodworking.en.made-in-china.com/

(https://harveywoodworking.en.made-in-china.com/) Bridge City Tool Works & Harvey Industries In 2013, John met Jack Xu, owner of Harvey Industries, a China based manufacturer established in 1999, that successfully sells woodworking machinery in over 100 countries worldwide. John created the Chopstick Master and looked to Jack to manufacture this product for him at the highest quality for retail sale. As a result of that collaboration, Harvey Industries began producing the Chopstick Master and later became the officially licensed manufacturer of Bridge City Tools.


https://bridgecitytools.com/pages/about
(https://harveywoodworking.en.made-in-china.com/)

[Brian Holcombe]

They list 20M in export, that is small business territory. Small companies making a complex product for a limited audience are going to need to charge more to make it viable.

[Derek Cohen]

I dont personally have a need, or even a "want" for Bridge City Tools like these. But finely crafted stuff really is nice, and if that's what you work for, I get that.

And "expensive" can be an eye-of-the-beholder thing. Plenty of retired guys here laugh at us for buying "just" LV or LN tools, let alone BCT stuff.

(Full disclosure: I did buy one teeny tiny BCT pocket square from LV for $23. I keep thinking about sending it back because the "magnet-mounted sliding steel fence" is just chintzy sheet metal.)

Just my $0.02. :)
Fred

I purchased a 2" x 2" saddle square many years ago. It is a go-to tool. I'd buy another if they sold it still - it's been out of production for a decade. Hopefully, with the new owner and manufacturer, plus tools sold via Lee Valley and Carbatec (in Oz), we might see these again.

https://i.postimg.cc/nzyVDJJV/Bridge-City-Saddle-Square2.jpg

That is the saddle square on the left (with a dovetail marker I made all that time back). The saddle square was about $50 (or less) at the time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

That saddle square is a little gem. While a much higher priced alternative to others out there, I could almost rationalize one of those. Alas, my Lee Valley version will have to do.

[Jim Matthews]

DO you think BCT buyers USE their planes?

[Frederick Skelly]

I purchased a 2" x 2" saddle square many years ago. It is a go-to tool. I'd buy another if they sold it still - it's been out of production for a decade. Hopefully, with the new owner and manufacturer, plus tools sold via Lee Valley and Carbatec (in Oz), we might see these again.

That is the saddle square on the left (with a dovetail marker I made all that time back). The saddle square was about $50 (or less) at the time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I've always admired that saddle square of yours in other pics you've posted Derek. Plus that sweet little dovetail square you made. (I always loved the dovetails on the dovetail square - clever and attractive.) For $50 US, I'd buy a saddle square like that if it comes back into production. For $100, it would be a "splurge tool". For much more than that, I'd admire it from afar. ;)

Fred

[Jim Matthews]

That's hilarious.

"Bridge City" is in China?

[Frederick Skelly]

DO you think BCT buyers USE their planes?

I always assumed BCT owners were just fans of finely crafted "things" and that they kept their BCT planes in a display case. But it would sure be interesting to hear from actual owners.

[Rob Luter]

The cost to produce a fine product is always considerably higher at a tiny manufacturer.

Very true. To add a bit of perspective, I have occasion to purchase production tooling, gauges, fixtures, etc. for manufacturing. These are usually one-off tools made by a local or regional tool shop. In that context, $1,000 for one of these planes is what we call "almost free".

[Jack Frederick]

Cost, value & resources. I thought it rather extravagant when I was just beginning woodworking that I would buy LN planes as I traveled on business in Maine, buying one or two/year. I think they are beautiful, paid the dough and am happy with them. I wish BCT the best, but they are out of reach here. I look at the cost, appreciate the value and am only short on resources these days;)

[ken hatch]

Interesting works of art but as Brian H. has shown what's important is a sharp iron and what's holding it makes no never mind. A simple block of wood can work as well as or better than the most highly engineered hunk of metal. That's my next question who is going to sharpen the iron after it is dull because at that point the ~$1000 USD BCT plane is a paperweight

ken

[Bill White]

Old western saying: It ain't the arrow. It is the Indian.
My proverb for the day.

[Brian Holcombe]

Interesting works of art but as Brian H. has shown what's important is a sharp iron and what's holding it makes no never mind. A simple block of wood can work as well as or better than the most highly engineered hunk of metal. That's my next question who is going to sharpen the iron after it is dull because at that point the ~$1000 USD BCT plane is a paperweight

ken

I can appreciate it from a manufacturing perspective, I think it’s neatly built.

It doesn’t fit my needs as it doesn’t have a double iron, with a double iron I find no reason for high bed angles.

[Mike King]

I have a few bridge city tools. They are finely crafted and I appreciate them for their art as well as function. An acquaintance has several of their planes; he is a very skilled woodworker and marquetarian and he loves his planes. That being said, I think all of their stuff is for aficionados. There are many ways to skin a cat. Not everyone appreciates a Ducati or Ferrari.

[Jason Kamery]

Jeeze. Definitely a nice plane with nice features but like any new plane, I would get too worried about damaging/dinging it. I wouldn't be focusing on woodworking, just making sure my expensive pretty item doesn't get damaged. It would be fun to try it one day.

[Bill Lyman]

This fellow seems to have had a number of BCT, and none of them appear to have been over-used.
https://www.estatesales.net/NC/Greensboro/27408/2129661

[Mike Henderson]

This fellow seems to have had a number of BCT, and none of them appear to have been over-used.
https://www.estatesales.net/NC/Greensboro/27408/2129661

Wow, that's some estate sale. Most of the estate sales I've gone to around here have junk tools.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

The folks at FWW are trumpeting the soon to be released Dual Angle Bench Planes from Bridge City Tools. Scary money. I am an extreme tool nerd. I love precision. These planes (and other BCT products) exude substance, quality, and luxury. Am I the only guy that considers them an elegant and horrifically expensive solution desperately seeking a problem? No disrespect to BCT.

Certainly as tools for producing furniture for profit they don't make any sense. No reasonable business person would spend that much money for something which has very reasonable alternatives at much lower prices.

But if you look at the tools as art, they make more sense - if you want that kind of art.

Mike

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

I have a few non-connected observations/comments I’ll throw into the mix...

Firstly, Jack Xu is a woodworking tool enthusiast, and he wants to express that through how he runs his business. He is driven by a desire to produce tools that will endure, and that will be distinct. (Full disclosure - he is our Veritas distributor in China). He is justifiably proud of the work he does, and is a gentleman to work with.

BCT tools have a design aesthetic that reflects John Economaki’s personal philosophy at varying points in time. He is a brilliant designer, and has a strong “take” on everything he does... It would be unreasonable to expect that his choices and philosophy will be congruent with the entire market. John walks the walk though, and uses his tools.

Pricing is often central to many discussions about tools. I have difficulty with the designation of makers/manufacturers being labeled as “boutique” or “Luxury” suppliers. Each of us has principles, beliefs, and a design philosophy that drives what we make. That may not reflect the same value for each person, especially when function and utility are used as the prime determinants of value. Unlike the fashion industry, the price of tools seems to more closely reflect the actual cost of production.

Drive by - after about a 2 year wait, I just took delivery of a Sauer and Steiner K13. Not only is it a work of art, but a functional tool that will see limited ( but very purposeful) use. I do not expect that it will produce a finer finish than could be achieved by a tool costing far far less. But, that’s not the point of the purchase. The value to me lies elsewhere.

I certainly get that these tools are not for everyone...but that alone does not invalidate them as a legitimate choice.

Cheers,

Rob
(Nursing a cold up at the lake...Happy Canada Day weekend!)

[Jim Matthews]

Oh no.
Broken seals?

That degrades value to "serious" collectors.

[Eric Danstrom]

Kinda like an expensive watch, keeps time like a $10 quartz and shows the owner has significant means. If ya got it, flaunt it!

[Flamone LaChaud]

Ok, I had to look. Yes, looks like every plane made by Sauer and Steiner are works of art . . . Not sure I'd ever use one more than just picking it up and stroking it like a puppy when I'm having a bad day . . . but they are definitely eye-candy.

[Rob Luter]

@Rob Lee - I agree with your sentiments regarding BCT design and aesthetics. The BCT stuff is really well done. The craftsmanship is above top shelf. The planes are very different mousetraps. Better mousetraps is arguable, but they do offer a different solution. As to the increased utility of blades that can be reversed, that’s lost on me.

The Sauer and Shreiner planes are also amazing. I think I would be inclined to go that direction if investing that kind of coin. The dynamic there is completely different to me. Modern interpretations of classic designs. Beauty and utility. I remember seeing an article on some of the last panel planes he was going to make. They were stunning. Infills have always had a special place in my heart, even though they’ll probably never grace my bench.

[Rob Lee]

Kinda like an expensive watch, keeps time like a $10 quartz and shows the owner has significant means. If ya got it, flaunt it!

Actually, I wear $10 watches....Casio f91w....unless I have a fitbit on....

[Rob Lee]

Hi Rob,

I don’t think there is a finer maker for planes in the world than Konrad...a couple arguably equal, but different. Yes, they are pricey - not an impulse item, yet many people spend that much on aluminum rims for a car. ( or 10 really really good bottles of scotch... ;) )

That plane is one for generations to appreciate.

Cheers,

Rob

[Mike Manning]

... Unlike the fashion industry, the price of tools seems to more closely reflect the actual cost of production.

Amen to that!

But I can still agree with your sentiments Rob.

[Bill Carey]

Hi -
Drive by - after about a 2 year wait, I just took delivery of a Sauer and Steiner K13. Not only is it a work of art, but a functional tool that will see limited ( but very purposeful) use. I do not expect that it will produce a finer finish than could be achieved by a tool costing far far less. But, that’s not the point of the purchase. The value to me lies elsewhere.


Holy cow, those are stunningly beautiful planes. Definitely works of art, and if I could find the coin for one I would not hesitate. And like you I would use it, perhaps sparingly, but it would for sure see some wood. 2 years of waiting well spent.
412022

[Tony Zaffuto]

Rob-had no idea you liked scotsch! Do you also smoke an occasional cigar?

[Warren Mickley]

The trouble with a lot of these makers is that they really do not know much about how planes work. The double iron plane has been with us for more than two and a half centuries, but apparently few makers have taken the trouble to learn how to use it. They have not seemed to notice that a lower cutting angle gives a finer surface. They think there is some advantage to having a heavy plane. There is not. They think there is an advantage to having thick irons. There is not.

The Bridge City plane has a weight that is more than double the weight of my Bailey smoothing plane, yet the maker calls it "lightweight". It is two pounds heavier than my 16 inch jack plane. He claims it is so versatile that it "may be the only bench plane you'll ever need." Yet it does not fit into a traditional kit of bench planes, and one must wonder if he even knows how a skilled artisan would use the four or five planes in this kit. The iron is .225 inches thick, almost twice as thick as an 18th century iron and maybe twice a Bailey iron. What in the world is he thinking, that he knows more than the more serious makers? The plane iron is extremely short, unlike the centuries old standard of seven or eight inches which would make it easier to keep a constant sharpening angle.

According to his blog, Konrad Sauer sharpened all his planes on Shapton 15 or 16K stones in his hotel room the evening before the second day of the 2009 Woodworking in America show. The next morning I was the first person at his stand and tried a smoother on a sample of wood I had brought. The resulting surface was good but not as fine as the surface on the other side of the sample which had been planed by a type 11 Bailey. Why was it not as good? Was it the steel? Was it the heat treatment? Was it the bed angle? Was it sharpening media? Was it sharpening technique? All I know is that the plane did not perform like I was used to and it was so heavy that it would have been awkward to use in a real world working situation.

[William Fretwell]

We all love to use the best tools made for the purpose. We believe it will bring out the master craftsman lurking within! The money spent may never be justified by the use of the tool, instead the smile inside one’s head when using it brings ‘inner peace’ and hopefully a better result.

Warren your points are well taken. Choosing between the art and function can be a challenge. I am a function guy so love reviews of gorgeous tools that many have got to work beautifully. As double iron planes, my Clifton’s have a chip breaker that is engineering perfection, right where it counts. Yes the blade is a bit thicker and the plane heavy. The weight carries the plane through a stroke evenly so has some purpose and gives me exercise and a great deal of pleasure.

I agree lots of stuff is overdone and offers no improved function, sometimes worse. That is where forums like this shine and the truly good stuff applauded, regardless of cost.

[Jim Koepke]

As double iron planes, my Clifton’s have a chip breaker that is engineering perfection, right where it counts. Yes the blade is a bit thicker and the plane heavy.

Some thoughts on thicker plane irons:

When irons are thicker than ~1/8" they can be a pain to sharpen for us members of the flat bevel society.

Being thicker adds weight to the iron. Extra weight requires more energy to set up resonance in the blade. Resonance is one aspect of chatter. Part of the idea of a chip breaker/ cap iron was to help prevent chatter with thin irons. Good plane design will also help to lessen chatter.

jtk

[Eric Danstrom]

When I look at the BCT designs they remind me of de-constructed recipes. I don't understand the attraction of either. I do like the Veritas design philosophy. It's a little different with a consistant look/feel and functional improvements. I like the Lie-Nielsen classic design and their improvements. Both companies offer a bargain considering they're manufactured in North America.

Super expensive planes impress me with the meticulous craftsmanship (much like a $20k watch impresses me). It does seem that the initial act of using one will reduce the value by several hundreds of dollars much like wearing that expensive watch to dinner.

[William Fretwell]

Quite right Jim, I am also a member of the flat bevel society, the leather hone is the only secondary bevel.

We can rejoice in diamond plates! They save us from all the grunt work. Our forefathers would have loved them!
Follow up with a series of Shapton’s and life is not so bad.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Not sure about hand planes (though, block plane with side depth stops can be handy), but they do have affordable squares and miters and sliding bevels. In fact, I'm waiting to receive my order soon with two squares and one miter. The price here in Europe is comparable to all aluminium squares from Incra or Woodpecker. But they have stainless still blades and no "plywood" support lip that makes it hard to check stock sides for square. I know Vesper Tools have a nice compromise with rotating tab to popup when needed but costs double or triple. I say "plywood" because here in Europe we do not understand that design, it is probably good only for sheet materials.

And Joint Maker Pro... Man, I dream about that for a few years already. Maybe will make my own of sorts.

[David Nelson1]

I do, but I have no 900 planes add the extra I'm well over that :-( cost to play.

[Kurtis Johnson]

The folks at FWW are trumpeting the soon to be released Dual Angle Bench Planes from Bridge City Tools. Scary money. I am an extreme tool nerd. I love precision. These planes (and other BCT products) exude substance, quality, and luxury. Am I the only guy that considers them an elegant and horrifically expensive solution desperately seeking a problem? No disrespect to BCT.
I’m not among their target demographic. (Makes all the difference.) I wouldn’t begin to understand who that person even is. To each their own, live and let live, etc. However, I appreciate the elegant, simple, and understated, so I wouldn’t enjoy using or even possessing anything so extravagant and esoteric.

[Jim Matthews]

I’m not among their target demographic. (Makes all the difference.)

Don't own any Automatic watch winders, hovering loudspeakers or custom made driving gloves?

[Kurtis Johnson]

Don't own any Automatic watch winders, hovering loudspeakers or custom made driving gloves?
You must have nailed the demographic! Wait! Do you have those things? ;)

[Randy Heinemann]

"...a solution desperately seeking a problem..."? Hardly. If that were true then there are tons of tools out there that could be put in that category, including the Domino, CNC machines (for hobbyists), and many other high end machines like Felders. No one needs any high end tool like those to make boxes, drawers, cabinets, furniture, shop projects, etc. However, if a tool makes your woodworking experience more enjoyable because you're using a fine or innovative tool, then it definitely improves your woodworking experience and, maybe even gives you a different outlook on life because it's enjoyable to you to use the tool. Would I buy a $700 - $900 hand plane? I doubt it but I get enjoyment from using my powered tools as much or more than my hand tools; and I have enough sunk into tools overall to never feel I have to buy another one - hand or power.

[Rob Luter]

"...a solution desperately seeking a problem..."? Hardly. If that were true then there are tons of tools out there that could be put in that category, including the Domino, CNC machines (for hobbyists), and many other high end machines like Felders. No one needs any high end tool like those to make boxes, drawers, cabinets, furniture, shop projects, etc. However, if a tool makes your woodworking experience more enjoyable because you're using a fine or innovative tool, then it definitely improves your woodworking experience and, maybe even gives you a different outlook on life because it's enjoyable to you to use the tool. Would I buy a $700 - $900 hand plane? I doubt it but I get enjoyment from using my powered tools as much or more than my hand tools; and I have enough sunk into tools overall to never feel I have to buy another one - hand or power.

My point (perhaps poorly articulated) was that the plane nut had already been cracked. Touting features that add questionable value (dual angle) is the solution seeking a problem. "I need the ability to remove the iron from my $700 block plane and reverse it to deal with this pesky end grain" is something said by no one ever.

[Derek Cohen]

My point (perhaps poorly articulated) was that the plane nut had already been cracked. Touting features that add questionable value (dual angle) is the solution seeking a problem. "I need the ability to remove the iron from my $700 block plane and reverse it to deal with this pesky end grain" is something said by no one ever.

Rob, it is important to consider the time this plane was designed and built. This was still the height of high cutting angles as the means to control tearout. Today, with the wisdom of years since, we understand that there are alternatives. This makes the dual angle notion appear over done. Further, I really doubt that BCT bench planes are actually purchased to be used to build, say, furniture. The are devilishly clever in design, unique in their offerings, and desired as art. There are clearly a number who (used to?) collect them when they were built in small quantities. Now the market place is being opened up by the new owner. No longer do they have that same collector status, and they are having to compete with all the other planes being offered. Some will succeed and some (like this one) will likely not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

Rob, it is important to consider the time this plane was designed and built. This was still the height of high cutting angles as the means to control tearout. Today, with the wisdom of years since, we understand that there are alternatives. This makes the dual angle notion appear over done. Further, I really doubt that BCT bench planes are actually purchased to be used to build, say, furniture. The are devilishly clever in design, unique in their offerings, and desired as art. There are clearly a number who (used to?) collect them when they were built in small quantities. Now the market place is being opened up by the new owner. No longer do they have that same collector status, and they are having to compete with all the other planes being offered. Some will succeed and some (like this one) will likely not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I understand your point. BST does make works of precision art. The layout tools they used to produce are like bench jewels. I’d love to own some. I also want to wear an Omega but my Tissot keeps the same time for 90% less. I’d understand if they’d promote them in that manner instead of touting questionable improvements in utility. Again, no disrespect to BST.

I had an idea the other day. A dual purpose chisel configured like a tuning fork. One side a standard bench grind, the other a paring grind. Rough work with one, finesse with the other. Just flip it over and never miss a beat. A socket handle fashioned from petrified mastodon bone. Elegant. A devil to sharpen, but elegant. I’m thinking $800. Do you suppose I could get any traction? Maybe I could convince Rob Lee to feature it next April? ;)

[Frederick Skelly]

I had an idea the other day. A dual purpose chisel configured like a tuning fork. One side a standard bench grind, the other a paring grind. Rough work with one, finesse with the other. Just flip it over and never miss a beat. A socket handle fashioned from petrified mastodon bone. Elegant. A devil to sharpen, but elegant. I’m thinking $800. Do you suppose I could get any traction? Maybe I could convince Rob Lee to feature it next April? ;)

Brilliant! I love the idea! :) :) :) If LV makes it out of PMV11, it should sell out quickly on April 1.

[Derek Cohen]

Why stop at double-sided? Imagine a four-sided cross or even more ... a whole set of chisels arranged in a circle ! The ideas are endless ... off to take my meds ... :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Zaffuto]

My watch winder stopped and I don't feel like resetting a bunch of automatics (let alone choosing), so today it's a Timex!


Anyhow, some buy BCT, some buy Harbor Freight and that's what makes the world go round.

[Mike King]

BCT tools may not fit the bill for every woodworker, but then again, I don't think that's what they were attempting to do. Here's an interesting video by John Economaki that underlies his philosophy of tool making:


https://youtu.be/EHwe5rGpkGE