Titebond liquid hide glue and shelf life

[Aaron Rosenthal]

I have a bottle of the liquid hide glue, and I admit it's probably 10 years old. I used it so that I'd I DID need to, I could repair it.
Making a smaller cabinet top. Jointed the wood, used my hand planes to finish the smoothing, adjusted the joints to dead tight.
Into the clamps with the liquid hide glue, came back 3 hours later, release the clamps - and one section is not holding; in fact, the whole piece wants to come off and the glue is still tacky.
Now, I suspect the glue is too old and won't hold. Just wanted a confirmation of my suspicions by someone more knowledgeable.

[Ralph Boumenot]

If my memory is correct, liquid hide glue in a bottle - Titebond - has a 1 shelf life.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Everything has a shelf life. Trying some on a test scrap is not a bad idea.

[Phil Mueller]

One year. And that may be shorter depending how long the bottle sat on the shelf. Titebond has started to put a date of their bottles. While I’ve had good luck with the stuff, others here have posted failures from new bottles. One test I’ve seen somewhere, is to put a drop on your thumb and using your index finger, press and open against the glue. If it forms strings (kinda like spider web strands), it’s good to go.

[Warren Mickley]

Ground hide glue is better in every way. It last indefinitely in the dry state.

[Bob Glenn]

Yes, hot hide glue is better, but it is very hard to use on some glue ups. You have to be quick!

[chris carter]

Put some glue on a piece of paper and make a very thin smear with your finger. Put the paper in the over at 170F for 17 minutes. Let it cool an hour. Then bend the paper. If the glue bends, then it’s bad. If it crackles, then it’s still good. If stored in a cool basement the Titebond stuff supposedly can potentially last 10 years.

I personally find the lack of not always knowing if the glue is good really annoying. And they don’t put a manufacture date on the stuff. So periodically I do that test to make sure it’s okay. But it did convert me over to hot hide glue because then you ALWAYS know it’s good. I make a batch, pour it into a silicon ice cube mold, and then store the cubes in a container in the freezer. You can extend the working time by adding salt when you heat it up in the pot.

[Curt Harms]

Everything has a shelf life. Trying some on a test scrap is not a bad idea.

And not just with hide glue. I write the purchase date on every glue container when I bring it home. That doesn't account for time in the warehouse and on the shelf but at least it's something.

[Doug Dawson]

And not just with hide glue. I write the purchase date on every glue container when I bring it home. That doesn't account for time in the warehouse and on the shelf but at least it's something.

What really trips is when you buy something that somebody previously returned after having it sit on their shelf at home for several years. (I'm looking at you, BORG!)

[Charles Guest]

Liquid hide glue is wonderful stuff, but its shelf life is one year, tops. If you're getting close, buy a new bottle of glue. Why take a chance with a four dollar bottle of glue on a project build with $100s of dollars worth of wood and $1,000s of dollars (usually) in tools, not to mention your own time.

There is a manufacturing date code on Franklin LHG and Patrick Edwards' glue comes with a date written on it by hand.

"According to Titbeond the codes were changed in 2009 to the following:

The first digit represents A for America (made in), the second digit is the last digit of the year of manufacture, the third and fourth digits represent the month, the fifth and sixth digits represent the day of the month, and the last four digits represent the lot number.

Example:

A904270023 - This material was manufactured on April 27, 2009"

This is an expensive hobby and can be a very exasperating and financially risky profession. If you're down to having to economise on glue, you might as well throw in the towel now before it gets worse.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stephen Shepherd wrote some excellent articles on using Liquid Hide Glue;

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=4698

As to the recommended storage life of Liquid Hide Glue, Titebond states 24 months.


Storage Life
24 months in tightly closed containers at 75°F.http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/9e9995b4-08eb-4fc6-8254-c47daa20f8ed



(http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/9e9995b4-08eb-4fc6-8254-c47daa20f8ed)

[David L Morse]

Stephen Shepherd wrote some excellent articles on using Liquid Hide Glue;

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=4698

As to the recommended storage life of Liquid Hide Glue, Titebond states 24 months.





(http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/9e9995b4-08eb-4fc6-8254-c47daa20f8ed)

Thank you Stewie. Expiration dates can be useful but it's hard to beat an actual freshness test.

[Curt Harms]

Stephen Shepherd wrote some excellent articles on using Liquid Hide Glue;

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=2105

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=4698

As to the recommended storage life of Liquid Hide Glue, Titebond states 24 months.





(http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/9e9995b4-08eb-4fc6-8254-c47daa20f8ed)

I'm pretty sure storage conditions affect liquid hide glue, maybe more than other glues. I keep mine in a cool dry basement and have done some test glue-ups. About 24 months seems right IME.

[Charles Guest]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where a bottle of glue would go unused for a few years, but whatever I guess. A year is unusual, heck six months should be highly unusual. A bottle every two weeks is more like it unless you're an old broken down codger like me. If you go through it fairly rapidly you don't have to take any special precautions in its storage except for keeping it from freezing solid. If you haven't worked in the shop for a while, but are ordering material for a new project, getting tools ready, etc. go ahead and spring for a $4 bottle of fresh glue regardless of the date on the bottle you currently have ($4.47 on Amazon right now). It's a pittance.

LHG is absolutely strong enough for furnituremaking. It may not be strong enough for certain applications in instrument-making, but if you're into that you're well beyond knowing what glue to use.

[lowell holmes]

Please define "1 shelf life".

I have tight bond that is at least 12 months old. it still works.

[carey mitchell]

Just noticed that my 18 month old can of Behlen flakes is now rusting on the outside, rust spots showing through the paper label. I opened it and there are rust spots appearing on the inside. OK, now it goes to a glass jar with a couple of packets of silica gel.

[lowell holmes]

Only buy small bottles of glue, mark the date of purchase on the bottle, and then you will always know how old the glue is.

[Stewie Simpson]

Please define "1 shelf life".

I have tight bond that is at least 12 months old. it still works.


Most adhesives manufacturers stamp an official shelf life on their products to limit liability in case poor storage conditions cause product failure. The stated shelf life of wood glue typically is one to two years. However, the expected shelf life of many glues typically stretches well past those few years. For example, store a bottle of white or yellow wood glue (polyvinyl acetate, or PVA glue) in optimum conditions, and it can last 10 years or longer. This goes for our popular Titebond® Original, Titebond II and Titebond III PVA glues, too. http://blog.titebond.com/page/how-to-store-your-wood-glue-for-longer-life

[Phil Mueller]

Charles, as a hobbyist, I may work on a dozen projects a year. Some small like boxes, some large like tables. I use a variety of glues depending on the project. In my situation, a small bottle of glue could easily become unused for over a year.

I date each bottle and after a year or so, they get tossed/recycled. I agree with you 100% that the time and expense of wood for a project isn’t worth risking on an old bottle of glue.

[Andrew Seemann]

Ground hide glue is better in every way. It last indefinitely in the dry state.


But only days after you mix it with water to use it.

Liquid hide glue has its uses. Hot hide glue takes a bit of logistical planning and doesn't work very economically for the hobbyist who can only work in short bursts every few days or weeks. I have ground hide glue, but I keep a bottle of Liquid on hand for when I just need a few joints with it.

[Warren Mickley]

But only days after you mix it with water to use it.

Liquid hide glue has its uses. Hot hide glue takes a bit of logistical planning and doesn't work very economically for the hobbyist who can only work in short bursts every few days or weeks. I have ground hide glue, but I keep a bottle of Liquid on hand for when I just need a few joints with it.

Some restoration shops keep a pot of glue hot all the time. Under these conditions the glue deteriorates and many make a fresh batch every week. If on the other hand you let the glue cool after using it, it will usually dry out and be good indefinitely.

[Bob Glenn]

The OP said he took the clamps off after three hours. IMO, three hours is not enough clamping time for liquid hide glue. I always leave things clamped up for 24 hours.

[chris carter]

There’s some things I do to make hot hide glue convenient for the hobbyist low-frequency use I require.

First, make a batch of hide glue, like 16oz or whatever, and pour it into silicone ice cube trays. Let it firm up, then place in the freezer. When frozen, pop the 1” cubes (about a half ounce each) out into an air-tight container and leave in the freezer. Then just take out however many cubes you need. Often I find I only need one or two. It takes about 5 minutes in my baby bottle warmer for a cube to be ready and I generally need more time than that to get my clamps together and paper out and stuff anyway, so no time is lost even if I have a spontaneous glue-up moment.

Second, heat your glue in a jar with an air-tight lid. I use a baby food jar, but a spice jar would also work. For the unused glue from the session, if I think I’ll need it in the next two weeks, I’ll put the lid on and stick it in the fridge. It will last two weeks. If I don’t think I’ll have a use for it (often), then I’ll just pour it back into the ice cube trays and make another cube. I don’t think hot hide glue suffers from multiple freeze/thaw cycles like PVA glues, but regardless, you’ll never have more than one extra cycle anyway so it’s not a concern. BTW - if you add salt for more working time, it will last considerably longer in the fridge as salt is a preservative.

Since I started doing this I hardly touch the TB LHG bottle. I will probably have to throw it out eventually.

[bill tindall]

Some hide glue facts:

It's a protein and its strength depends on the BIG protein molecules remaining unchanged. Water alone eventually breaks down (hydrolyzes) protein. If the water is basic or acidic this breakdown is more rapid.

Old Brown Glue is liquefied with urea, which breaks down in water to ammonia, which is basic, which in turn breaks down the protein. If your Old Brown stinks of ammonia be warned it may be on death's door or at the morgue. Titebond is liquefied with another chemical that does not change the pH of the water over time. Hence, Titebond lasts longer than the other. Chemist at Franklin told me he has had it remain stable for 10 years refrigerated. (Cold slows down breakdown of protein. )

If the protein remains unchanged the glue is good. Sort of complicated chemical means of testing the protein there is a quick way and a slow way. To make a fiber from a solution the stuff that is making the fiber needs to have BIG molecules, such as the original protein in hide glue. You can't make fibers from degraded protein. So, rub some liquid hide between thumb and finger and when it gets viscous pull the digits apart. If long stringy fibers can be created as you separate finger and thumb the protein has not degraded so much that the stuff won't function as a glue.

That said, why does this myth live on that Yellow and White glue are not reversible? Has anyone seen data to support these claims? Fact- a joint made with these adhesives can be disassembled exactly the same as a hide glue joint-steam and tension. Fact: a joint can be remade with these adhesives just like hide glue. New glue sticks handily to cured glue. Franklin has done the experiments to prove it. If you want to see the data email me. My address can be found on WoodCentral site.

[Warren Mickley]

That said, why does this myth live on that Yellow and White glue are not reversible? Has anyone seen data to support these claims? Fact- a joint made with these adhesives can be disassembled exactly the same as a hide glue joint-steam and tension. Fact: a joint can be remade with these adhesives just like hide glue. New glue sticks handily to cured glue. Franklin has done the experiments to prove it. If you want to see the data email me. My address can be found on WoodCentral site.

I take it you've never done restoration work.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Per Titebond, 1 year if not opened and not microwaved. It's fairly cheap, so I would toss it. I find that after a year, it thickens up quite a bit. That said, I ran some test glue ups with 10 year old Titebond Hide Glue and while it required heating, it worked fine. That said, I tossed it and got the Little Brown Glue which is essentially the same thing, maybe a little less Urea.

[Zach Dillinger]

Four or five years ago, my local hardware had bottles of Tite Bond LHG clearanced out for $0.79 a bottle. They were, of course, past the date on the bottle but, nevertheless, I bought all they had on the hope that they would still be good. It was cheap enough to risk it. I didn't notice any problem with the glue at all until about 2 years ago, when I had face glued two pieces of cherry together and the glue failed horribly and actually molded on the work piece. So, the glue would have been at least three years past expiration at that point. I did keep the glue in my basement which is pretty much 55 degrees year round so I'm sure that helped.