Separating Jewelry Box Lids

[Thomas McCurnin]

I've made a bunch of jewelry boxes, humidors and the like and typically simply glue up the box and cut off the the lid with the table saw and a shim to prevent the kerf from closing. There are other methods as well, such as using the table saw and lowering the blade so as not to cut completely through the box, then use a razor knife. Another way is to use a well tuned band saw and fence.

Since I haven't glued up the box yet, it struck me that I could simply separate the top from the box using the single side pieces on the table saw and more accurately split a dovetail or end the the lid on a full finger joint pin, cutting the four sides separately. But I've never seen anyone separate the box lids before gluing up the box, so intuitively, my idea must be wrong, because I can't be the first person to think this through.

So how do you guys separate the lid from the box? Table Saw after gluing? Band Saw after glue up?

Regards,

Thomas

[Warren Wilson]

I look forward to the responses as I was wondering the same thing recently: could I do the entire build, fit it up and rip the sides before assembly. Currently, I almost always use the shim and table saw routine — using copious amounts of tape to stabliize it after cutting each side.

I also tend to use stacked feather boards to stabilize it as much as I can. The results are good but often imperfect. If there is enough overlap on the cuts to notice when the box is closed, I will take the tiniest possible rip on the top and bottom separately.

Perhaps I should just experiment and try building a box using the method you described — worst could happen is my wife gets another container for gardening gear.

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Thomas,

I separate the lid using my bandsaw, splitting between two dovetail tails.

411648

[Phil Mueller]

I’ve used just about every way I can think of...hand saw, table saw with shims, table saw leaving a small amount to knife, router with 1/8” spiral bit. They all seem to require a small amount of planing or sanding on a flat surface to get a perfect fit.

As I posted in other thread somewhere, assembling the box before separating helps me get better alignment for hinge placement. I do a first initial shallow cut around the box, mark for hinges across the cut, then finish removing the top.

[Brian Holcombe]

My favorite method currently is to cut them with a saw leaving a whisper in the bottom of the cut. Handsaw them to separate. Clean the edges up with a hand plane, then sand them on a surface plate.

[Dan Hahr]

By assembling the box before hand you are guaranteed the lid and the bottom of the box will be in perfect coplanar alignment. Otherwise you’ll have to make the two boxes perfectly square and perfectly coplanar, top and bottom, to align perfectly. In my experience, perfect is not easily done.

Dan

[Robert Engel]

Hi Thomas,

I separate the lid using my bandsaw, splitting between two dovetail tails.

411648

^^ Safest way

[Andrew Hughes]

I separate the lid from the bottom before glue up on the bandsaw. Some of my boxes have sloping side so there is very little room for error.

[Charles Lent]

Having made many boxes, I have settled on one way that I prefer.

I glue up the box complete, being as careful as I can to get it as square as possible, but absolutely perfect is rare. For this reason I prefer to cut the top free after glue-up. I use my table saw with a zero clearance insert and the fence position to get the lid cut off in the correct place. I use a feather board to keep constant pressure holding the box against the fence. A lightly drawn pencil line across the box face before cutting helps me match the top and bottom orientation when it comes time to add the hinges and latch. I then set the saw blade height to just barely cut through the thickness of the box sides. Then I make the first two cuts on opposite sides. I insert a shim in each kerf that is the blade thickness, each held in place with a piece of blue tape. Then I cut the remaining two sides. If there is any unevenness in the top or bottom kerf edges after the lid is cut free I then have a piece of 12 mm Baltic Birch that is very flat and about 2X the size of the box in both directions, with several sheets of 150 grit sandpaper glued on one surface of it. I screw this board down to one of my workbenches and place the uneven kerf cut of the box bottom or top against this sandpaper. A figure eight movement of the box or top will sand the edge flat, but you should rotate the box every few figure eight sanding movements to assure that your downward hand pressure is not creating high and low spots. By rotating the box, your hand pressure will be more evenly distributed. The figure eight movement also balances the sanding motion to make all of the box edge sand equally.

It doesn't take long to get a perfectly flat edge that is free of blade marks and truly flat. Then, using that diagonally drawn pencil line (can be any kind of mark that crosses the kerf line and is on the face side), you can orient the lid on the box so that the top and bottom of the box match, even if the glue-up left them a tiny bit out of square. As long as the orientation is kept the slight out of square will not be noticeable in the completed box. Now install the hinges and latch in their desired positions. If you didn't dent the wood when drawing the pencil line, a little alcohol on a paper towel wiped across the pencil line will completely remove it. If you pressed too hard you will need to do a bit of sanding to remove it.

The only time that I use my band saw instead of the table saw for cutting box lids free is when I want to cut the lid free at an angle, like for a recipe box. Even with the box clamped to the miter gauge of the band saw and a blade that cuts very smooth, the band saw kerf always requires much more sanding than the table saw kerf. But the entire cut is done in just one pass, so no shimming of the kerf is needed, nor are additional passes, but you will need a well tuned band saw that is large enough for the whole box to pass through the blade. I still do the sanding the same way, although I have applied some sheets of 80 grit sandpaper to the back side of my sanding board and will start sanding with that side facing up first. Then I'll switch to the finer sandpaper for the finish sanding.

Charley

[J.R. Rutter]

By assembling the box before hand you are guaranteed the lid and the bottom of the box will be in perfect coplanar alignment. Otherwise you’ll have to make the two boxes perfectly square and perfectly coplanar, top and bottom, to align perfectly. In my experience, perfect is not easily done.

Dan

Exactly. Well said.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Within ten minutes I thought of the correct answer which Dan also supplied:

"By assembling the box before hand you are guaranteed the lid and the bottom of the box will be in perfect coplanar alignment. Otherwise you’ll have to make the two boxes perfectly square and perfectly coplanar, top and bottom, to align perfectly. In my experience, perfect is not easily done."

One honestly needs the base to match exactly with the top, which might present a challenge if the two were separated.

So that leaves the woodworker with a table saw, or band saw or a neanderthal hand saw.

Thanks for all the responses

[John Sincerbeaux]

I make a ton of boxes. I have tried every method mentioned here except bandsaw. Bandsaw method seems scary because of blade drift and cut quality?
My boxes are almost always “curved” sided so another issue is minimizing the curf which minimizes the loss of the fare curved profile. 1/8” is a lot of curve that is lost.
I cut my boxes on my slider using a 1/16” diamond blade. I cut all the way through then use shims. Cutting shy then handsawing or cutting w a knife can leave the inside edge a little chippy. Then I send both top and bottom thru my wide belt just to just take off any blade marks at the corners. This is one of my favorite uses for the wide belt.

[Charles Lent]

If you make boxes and dado the sides for the top and/or bottom panels to fit in, the best way that I've found is to get the "Box Slotting Router Bits" from Lee Valley (you only need one for the panel thickness used, but you will likely want all of them). These are small diameter router bits that you use in your router table. You dry assemble the 4 sides of your box, holding it together temporarily with clamps or a band clamp. You then place the box sides on the router table with the bit in the center of the bottomless box, and then move the box around so the bearing guided bit cuts the dado all the way around the inside of the box sides. The bit diameter is small enough for it to cut into the box corners enough so that all you have to do is to slightly round the corners of the box bottom or top panel for it to fit into the radius of the dado slot in the corners. There is no chance of bit break-out through the outside of the box and all 4 box sides have their dado at exactly the same height, all cut in one pass. All of the other dado bits on the market are too large of a diameter to cut fully into the box corners, so the dado will not be complete all the way into the box corner. If you love making small boxes with paneled tops and bottoms, you really will enjoy using these bits from Lee Valley

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=47818&cat=1

Charley