Table saw motor upgrade

[Matthew Sills]

Hello, I am trying to help out my father in law who is a home builder and avid woodworker. He has a Rigid table saw that is around 12 years old. It is set up for 120v and has a direct drive motor though I am not sure of the HP. I believe the rpms are around 3400. His complaint is that it lacks power when ripping anything of any size. He is getting ready to run a bunch of Red Oak and is thinking about buying another saw. Is there anything that he can do to improve the performance of the saw he has? Will changing it over to 240v help. He is under the impression that he needs more rpms but from what I am reading that will reduce torque and possibly make it rip worse. Any Ideas and advice would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Dick Strauss]

A clean sharp blade with the right type and number of teeth will help. If the saw is underpowered, a thinner kerf blade will help all else being equal.

[Frank Pratt]

I'm not aware of any direct drive saw that is 240V capable. In any case, that would only help if you were running it with a very long extension cord. The real answer is a more capable saw, but the real world answer may just be a sharp, thin kerf dedicated ripping blade. Fewer tooth count will be better.

[Andrew Hughes]

I agree with the advise above.
Get a new thin blade esp if the one on the saw is 12 years old.

[Matthew Sills]

Thanks everyone, the blade has been changed several times over the years so it seems like a new saw may be in order. I just wanted to see if there was anything else we could do first. Thanks again.

[Myk Rian]

For a low power saw, a 9" blade will help.

[Bruce Wrenn]

If it will give you the depth of rip needed, try a Diablo 24 tooth framing blade on his saw.

[Frank Pratt]

For a low power saw, a 9" blade will help.

I disagree. To cut through a given thickness of wood requires the same power whether the blade is 9" or 10". Slowing down the feed rate will help, but at the risk of burning and, well, taking longer to make the cut.

[Andrew Hughes]

A smaller blade will cut slower. Unless the speed is increased. I switch between a 10 and 12 inch blade the 10 cuts slower unless I change the motor pulley to the bigger one. I have three different size pulleys I can use.

[Scott Bernstein]

I am a hobby woodworker and, like many, started with a direct-drive jobsite saw. I don't know if you are using one of these small jobsite/benchtop style saws or a slightly larger "contractor" style saw that happens to use a direct drive motor with no belts...either way simply increasing the RPM is not the answer. This is a typical rotation speed of most tablesaws...what is needed is a saw/motor with more horsepower, or in other words more "oomph!" A larger motor may rotate at the same speed but can provide a lot more torque so it does not get bogged down as easily. I suppose theoretically one could upgrade the motor to one that produces more torque - perhaps upgrading the universal motor to an induction motor - however this would probably cost more than the saw is worth and you're limited by the size of the saw to smaller motors. The most horsepower you can get out of a typical 110V induction motor is around 1-3/4 horsepower. I recently upgraded the motor on my cabinet saw from 110V - 1-3/4hp to 220V-3hp and it is way stronger now.

In any case, a motor upgrade like that is probably not a realistic option in your case. A thin kerf saw blade might be a good option - a standard kerf saw blade has teeth 1/8" wide. Look for a blade with narrower teeth. These blades have thinner plates as well, and can vibrate a little more but that's simply a tradeoff to make it easier for an underpowered saw to get through hardwood. He can also take multiple thin passes to get through thicker stock.

I agree with the recommendation to upgrade to a larger saw, if that is possible.

[Robert Engel]

Yes, a new saw +1.

[Curt Harms]

If it will give you the depth of rip needed, try a Diablo 24 tooth framing blade on his saw.
That would be something cheap to try. I've used a 7.25" blade on a 3 hp saw cutting small pieces. It worked out well.

[Frank Pratt]

Another option would be to use a 7.25" thin kerf circular saw blade. They are available in almost paper (well, cardboard) thin widths. There would still be about 2" of cut capacity.

[Tony Pisano]

The way the rigid saws I have seen are made, you can't just swap out a different size motor. I took a free one completely apart last year hoping to replace a bad bearing, which I happened to have a replacement for. Unfortunately, the contractor who threw the saw out ran it until the bearing spun in the housing. A new housing end wasn't available, and my effort to wrap a bearing in plastic and fill around it with epoxy didn't work.

[Lee Schierer]

As others have stated motor upgrades are not an option for your saw. Thin kerf 24 tooth blades are available from Freud (Freud 10" x 24T Thin Kerf Rip Blade (LU87R010)) and other manufacturers that may help. If the saw is connected by an extension cord, you may not be getting full voltage to the saw. I would suggest a 12 ga or at least 14 ga extension cord no more than 15 feet in length. Check the voltage at the outlet where he has it plugged in. You also need to check what he is attempting to rip. Construction grade lumber often tends to pinch the blade which would appear to be a loss of power. You can insert wood door shims behind the blade in the cut to reduce the pinching action.

[David Kumm]

I have a little Bosch saw but wouldn't want to rip much oak on it. Small table and light trunion. Do your dad a favor and find a decent used saw with a large table, good fence, and decent motor. You can always sell it after. Better than trying to hurt yourself with a machine that is small for the task. Dave

[Matthew Sills]

Hello again, Thank you for the replies. I thought I would finally post a photo of my father in law's saw. I am not sure of the HP but it has a 13 amp motor and as you can see it is a pretty good size saw however it has difficulty ripping a pine 2x4 even with a fresh blade without bogging down. He is considering buying a Dewalt 15 amp table top model like his friend has that he has used before. I was hoping that I could possibly help him without spending $600 on a new saw but, you only live once. Thanks again.

[Earl McLain]

That looks to be a Ridgid R4512, if so i have its cousin (Craftsman 21833). I have very good success ripping hardwoods up to full 2"--with dedicated ripping blades. But most pine, especially construction and/or treated i'd rather burn than rip. A few years ago i did a table of fir where i used 10' long 2 x 12 stock, 4 rips in each board to get rid of the rounded edges and the hearts. Took the blade off after each rip to clean the sap. If he trades up to a 3HP cabinet saw--it might improve the ripping for a while, but sappy wood will drag at some point.

Take that blade off, clean it with Trend Bit & Blade cleaner, then rip a 1 1/2" thick piece of white oak--he'll think he replaced the motor.
earl

[Frank Pratt]

Hello again, Thank you for the replies. I thought I would finally post a photo of my father in law's saw. I am not sure of the HP but it has a 13 amp motor and as you can see it is a pretty good size saw however it has difficulty ripping a pine 2x4 even with a fresh blade without bogging down. He is considering buying a Dewalt 15 amp table top model like his friend has that he has used before. I was hoping that I could possibly help him without spending $600 on a new saw but, you only live once. Thanks again.

That would be $600 down the drain. Why does he want a jobsite saw? They are inferior in almost every way to a contractor saw (which the Ridgid is), except for the portability. The extra 2A that the motor draws may or may not be noticeable and if so would have barely more power.

Another thing to keep in mind is that between a 13A induction motor & a 13A universal motor, the induction motor will be more powerful because universal motors are much less efficient.

[Matthew Sills]

That would be $600 down the drain. Why does he want a jobsite saw? They are inferior in almost every way to a contractor saw (which the Ridgid is), except for the portability. The extra 2A that the motor draws may or may not be noticeable and if so would have barely more power.

Another thing to keep in mind is that between a 13A induction motor & a 13A universal motor, the induction motor will be more powerful because universal motors are much less efficient. Now you understand my confusion. His friend who owns the Dewalt "says" that he can rip pine all day without it bogging down. My FIL believes this will prove to be a much better saw for his woodworking which is mostly hardwood. I myself can't understand how a tabletop model could outperform such a huge saw but I don't pretend to understand all the differences. I hope he doesn't make a regretful purchase.

[Dick Strauss]

Also, check the fence to blade alignment...

[Jacob Reverb]

I am not sure of the HP but it has a 13 amp motor and as you can see it is a pretty good size saw however it has difficulty ripping a pine 2x4 even with a fresh blade without bogging down.

Blade on backwards?

Just a guess

(My hunch is that he just wants the benchtop saw and is trying to find a way to justify it to the CFO...)

[Frank Pratt]

Now you understand my confusion. His friend who owns the Dewalt "says" that he can rip pine all day without it bogging down. My FIL believes this will prove to be a much better saw for his woodworking which is mostly hardwood. I myself can't understand how a tabletop model could outperform such a huge saw but I don't pretend to understand all the differences. I hope he doesn't make a regretful purchase.

I guess it's a matter of perspective & expectations. His friend with the Dewalt is cutting much softer wood & probably has much lower performance expectations. I'm not slamming the Dewalt saw; by most reports it's a good saw. But it is what it is, a job site saw. Maybe your FIL could go to his friend's place with an arm load of hardwood & see how it does.

[Lee Schierer]

Hello again, Thank you for the replies. I thought I would finally post a photo of my father in law's saw. I am not sure of the HP but it has a 13 amp motor and as you can see it is a pretty good size saw however it has difficulty ripping a pine 2x4 even with a fresh blade without bogging down. He is considering buying a Dewalt 15 amp table top model like his friend has that he has used before. I was hoping that I could possibly help him without spending $600 on a new saw but, you only live once. Thanks again.

A saw drawing 13 amps is only developing 3/4 Hp. Check your local craigs list for a 113 model craftsman saw. They have a 1 Hp motor which will draw about 14 amps. I have one and routinely rip and crosscut 3/4" hickory, maple cherry and oak with a full kerf, 24 tooth Freud glue line rip blade. I can also rip 2x? construction lumber with no issues other than the wood tends to pinch the blade at times. You can probably pick one up for less than $500.
411324

[Mike Cutler]

Something is wrong.
Both of my table saws are powered by 120vac motors. Both have no rouble ripping lumber much harder than pine. I've put 2" thick tropical hardwoods through both of them with little issue.
Ripping "green" pine is another story though. Ripping 2x lumber is also problematic, but I've done hundreds and hundreds of bd/ft.
I suspect right now that the blade is binding due to any number of factors. Most likely poor setup, and the wood is releasing stress and pinching the blade.
I don't use any exotic blades either. I have a 20+year old CMT thin kerf rip blade, and a Home Depot bought Freud Thin kerf rip blade.
If your FIL is just looking to get a new saw, I'm all for it. The Jobsite Dewalt is not his answer though. His current saw is not the problem either, but if he's going to upgrade, go for a 3hp cabinet as a minimum, and be done with it.
Changing from 120 to 240 on his current saw will have no effect. It's a waste of time and money to do it.

[Sergio Sotolongo]

If you can't afford a new table saw, look around Craigslist and Offerup and find a used table saw with a belt driven motor. I just moved up from a job site to a Craftsman 22114. I know it's not the greatest saw in the world, but the price was good. I have it set up for 220v and all I can say is wow. The difference is like night and day. You will not regret it. I've only done smaller projects but I'm as giddy as a school girl at how well it cuts. I can only imagine the day I step up to a full sized cabinet saw.

[Curt Harms]

The so-called "zipcode" saws that Sears sold got excellent reviews so of course Sears quit selling them. They were made by Orion I think. I think the primary difference between the 22104/22114/22124 is the fence. The 22124 came with a Biesmeyer fence. I have a Griz 1023 and it's not going anywhere anytime soon but if I couldn't get 240 volts easily I'd be on the lookout for a good used zipcode saw.