USS Nautilus submarine: Why are parts still classified?

[Roger Feeley]

Just wondering. The thing is so old.

[Alan Caro]

Roger Feeley,

Probably almost all nuclear power technology is permanently classified to some degree, but the classification level will be much higher and of longer duration with regard to defense systems. Even the release of the plans for Fat Man and Little Boy of 1945 could probably still give a boost to those who absolutely shouldn't have it. What very little I know, the mechanical design in principal and concept of nuclear reactors and devices is not difficult to understand, but everything of the practical nature is in the subtleties, for examples, the design of the triggers of bombs.

If you're interested, the Nautilus is open to visitors and for questions, apply to the Submarine Force Library and Museum (http://ussnautilus.org) in Groton, Conn. If you need spare parts, call General Dynamics / Electric Boat,..

If you've not seen it, I strongly recommend finding the English dubbed DVD of Das Boot, concerning a WWII U-Boat crew. That's by far the best submarine movie I know.

Alan

[Mike Henderson]

Roger Feeley,

If you've not seen it, I strongly recommend finding the English dubbed DVD of Das Boot, concerning a WWII U-Boat crew. That's by far the best submarine movie I know.

Alan

I agree, but would recommend the German version of the movie with English subtitles.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Did someone mention General Dynamics?

Having worked in a field and area involving government contractors, part of the financial incentive for such work is supplying replacement parts.

If the specifications of an integral part can only be viewed by one contractor, then all replacement parts have to come from that contractor.

jtk

[Ralph Boumenot]

Ditto with what Alan about Das Boat. I spent my navy career in submarines and it is an excellent movie in english or german. Another excellent submarine movie is Hunt For Red October. We were required to go and watch it - the navy paid the admission.

[Frederick Skelly]

Another excellent submarine movie is Hunt For Red October. We were required to go and watch it - the navy paid the admission.

Ralph, are you at liberty to say why the Navy felt that movie was required? I guess that surprises me.
Fred

[James Cheever]

Fred -

As a career submarine officer from 1977 to 1999, I had to go see it too. As it was explained to us, the Submarine Navy helped in making the movie and loved the PR aspect of it. For us Submariners, it was our "Top Gun". Overall it was pretty good (although not "Das Boot" good). Showed a lot of the things and operations that fast attack submariners did during the old days of the Cold War; just in a bit more dramatic way.

James

[Stephen Tashiro]

Just wondering. The thing is so old.
Not as old as these secrets: https://www.cia.gov/news-information/blog/2016/cias-oldest-classified-docs.html

[Frederick Skelly]

Fred -

As a career submarine officer from 1977 to 1999, I had to go see it too. As it was explained to us, the Submarine Navy helped in making the movie and loved the PR aspect of it. For us Submariners, it was our "Top Gun". Overall it was pretty good (although not "Das Boot" good). Showed a lot of the things and operations that fast attack submariners did during the old days of the Cold War; just in a bit more dramatic way.

James

Thanks James!
Frec

[John K Jordan]

Just wondering. The thing is so old.

From my decades of experience all I have to say is some things may never be declassified.

[Ralph Boumenot]

I was stationed at the Sub School in Groton when the movie came out. The navy got a bus to take my entire division to see it and we had to sign off that we had see it. It was very realistic especially the last hunting scenes but there was some hollywood BS in it too.

[Mike Cutler]

Roger

The Nautlius has changed throughout the years.
When we first put it at the "pier" , it was just outside the sub base entrance, to the northwest of Fusconi's cleaners. There wasn't much there then, and the side of the boat that faced the pier had a lead shielding enclosure welded to it. There was a simple brow to get over to it, and other than opening it up for easier access, it was kind of "as is". I took my mom on a tour in the early 90's.
There will always be things classified about the Nautilus, and all submarines. Submarines, and submariners, are pretty tight lipped in general about their boats, and the submarine force is a very different Navy than the "Tin Can" or,Surface Navy.
The materials used for piping, layout and distribution of sub systems, the actual reactor systems, and the reactor itself, are not only legacy, but still being used to this day.
The Nautilus did many classified op's, and the resulting information from those op's was used to change the face of the submarine Navy. Only the NR-1 is shrouded in more myth, legend, and lore, than the Nautilus. It's a very important history, in and of, itself.

It would be nice of they would move either the '622, Daniel Webster, or '635 boat,Sam Rayburn, up to Groton. They're all that is left of the '41 for Freedom Boats, and I hear they're going to be replaced as training ship, by the Michigan, or the Ohio.

They made you guys go watch the Hunt for Red October??? Wow!!
I took my wife to see it at the cinema in Waterford CT, as I was already out of the Navy by then. I was a Missile Tech on the '611 and '619, from '79-'84.
I'm sorry, but I was kind of laughing through it. It wasn't as bad as Crimson Tide, but once you got past the opening scene, with the biologic's sound cuts, it got Hollywood. It was a good movie, but with a theater full of Qualified Submariners, we had some fun with it. Our spouses were all just kind of eyeballing us. It was a good time.

Das Boot, was an excellent film!! There were still a few Diesel boats on the river, lower base, when I got out, and they were "cramped".

[Frederick Skelly]

Mike, your mention of diesel boats reminded me of this. Captain Peter Huchthausen wrote a good book about the Cuban Missile Crisis called October Fury. He reported that we were trying to get a russian sub to surface by dropping grenades (wrapped in toilet paper rolls IIRC). He said that the soviet sub had an small diesel exhaust leak that was affecting the crew just enough that the Captain thought we were dropping depth charges on them and was just about to fire a tactical nuclear weapon he had onboard. The second in command stopped him just in time. It's been a few years since I read it and I may have boggled a few details. But it was was devil of a scary history. The book was short and well worth the read.
Fred

[Chuck Wintle]

Just wondering. The thing is so old.
IMO it might be the reactor design that is still classified due to its advanced design of the day and to its still advanced design even today.

[Lisa Starr]

Our company (a subcontractor) manufactured a component of that sub that was used in the reactor. Everyone, and I mean everyone, right down to the floor sweepers had to sign confidentiality agreements and have a background check whether they were involved in the manufacturing process or not. Our joke was always that when documentation for the part weighed more than the part itself, it was time to ship it to the contractor.

[Roger Feeley]

Probably the best high-security story I've heard came from my brother who wrote consumer loans in Omaha. He knew this guy who did regular maintenance on Xerox machines including one at SAC headquarters beneath downtown Omaha. Of course he had to have clearance. On each visit, they would inspect him and his tools and take him on an elevator ride down to the secure part of the facility. Then they would go down this long dark hallway. At the end of the hallway, under a single bare bulb was the machine. The repairman commented once that maybe the machine would be of more use if the light was better. The reply was that, "You don't understand, we build this hallway just for you when you visit. In two hours, this hallway won't be here and the light will be better."

[Ole Anderson]

Roger Feeley,
If you've not seen it, I strongly recommend finding the English dubbed DVD of Das Boot, concerning a WWII U-Boat crew. That's by far the best submarine movie I know.

Alan

What? Not Operation Petticoat with Cary Grant and Tony Curtis, you know, the one with the pink submarine???

[Roger Feeley]

Oh boy, here we go. I guess I’m one of the three people in the world that loved “Down Periscope”. Seriously “The Enemy Below” is excellent.

[Mike Cutler]

Ole
My first boat was the USS John Marshall, SSBN 611, out of Guam.
Apparently a few years prior to me coming on board, two of the guys on board " got married". After that they would refer to the boat as the "Jane"Marshall. With the Blue Crew, the Gold Crew, and the "Pink" Crew. ( FBM submarines have two crews, blue and gold,normally.
The actual truth of this sea story, I can't verify. I wasn't there then. It does make for a good tale though.

[lowell holmes]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-sz-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=sz&p=USS+Nautilus#id=3&vid=526b0aba1ee07e75cc3a89c194f46cbf&action=view

See these pictures.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have not had any exposure to classified material in this space, so....

I believe that some of the techniques are still in use today. I could speculate which techniques are likely to be in use; but I won't. :p:p

[Bill Dufour]

For all I know the diameter of the torpedo tubes is a secret and they still use the same size. If you know the maximum diameter you can make some good guesses about speed and distance.

[Alan Caro]

Fellow Creekateers.

RE: Das Boot: I was interested to learn only a couple of days ago that there has a been a Das Boot Television series since 2018:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/16/arts/television/das-boot-review.html

I haven't had TV for more than twenty years so I missed that one. The NYT review (there's a trailer in the article too) is generally positive, though it reads as though it's not as taught and unsentimental as the Petersen movie. That's TV and they have to spin out all the subplots to keep the series going.

It's been interesting to read of our friends that have been around submarines. My brush with subs: I've been on- or rather -in- a submarine only once, when I was nine years old. This was 1964 and the occasion was accompanying my father when he went shopping for a used submarine in New Orleans for the Continental Oil Company. Beau Clemens Discount Used Submarines E-Z financing was it? As I remember it was not expensive - $10,000 or so but the buyer has to figure in the cost of an oil change. I didn't know the reason for this, but must've been the early days of Gulf oil exploration, a few years after the Suez crisis when the ME was de-stabilizing, and new and nearer sources were desirable. For whatever reason- probably the cost of an oil change, the purchase was not made. A couple of years later when Gaddafi nationalized US oil assets in Libya, my father was laid off and he went to work for a private MI consulting firm. Years later he went to work for Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company that builds nuclear subs. That WWII Diesel was cramped, dark, and stinky, but it was a kid's heaven. I loved cars, planes, and machines of all kinds but had never been really inside a machine like that- really right in the machinery and every piece is visible. I was hooked and always watched submarine-related movies afterwards. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Ice Station Zebra, Grey Lady Down, Run Silent, Run Deep, The Enemy Below, Crimson Tide, K19-the Widow Maker was particularly powerful (did anyone else watch the recent series Chernobyl?), The Hunt for Red October, and Das Boot at the top of the list.

I watched The Hunt for Red October again last evening. While it was better than I remembered, there is still something too easy and sanitary about it; everything works out like clockwork and I found the numerous scratch and dent free close torpedo escapes (remember the effect in Das Boot of a depth charge explosion), Ramius' (Connery) letter declaring his defection in advance so as to give the Soviets a head start on hunting him down, the idea that Russia would not know where it's newest, highest tech multi-billions flagship was located at every second, the genial banter at the sonar station where one half of the team doesn't recognize a whale call or know what to do to track a signal, Ramius is one of the heroes, but he completely casually murders someone, and the silly choice of making the interior of the US sub white, and the Soviet sub interior a sort of elegant red and black. <It reminded me of high-end Los Angeles audio stores. There was just a bit too much convenient implausibility, but it was still fun.

My other slight association with subs is that for fun I worked a bit on a concept for a high speed (supercavitation), deep dive research sub and at that time had an architectural client who, a few years later, designed and built a sub and took it to the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

Alan

[andrew whicker]

I work for an industrial compressor company. We made compressors for some nuclear plants in the 50's and I am NOT supposed to look at the drawings. They are classified. Only hard copies.

I'm supposed to have clearance to view the drawings for a compressor that... is very similar to every other compressor we build.