Making board square

[Anuj Prateek]

Hello,

Need help in figuring out any easy way to square boards.

I use both hand tools and power tools. My workflow to make board square is something like this:

- Use jointer to make one side of rough board flat.
- Use #7 to refine the flatness. I normally end up with 0.002-5" flatness over 2' face.
- Use planer to make other face flat.
- Use #7 lightly again for any more refinement.
- Use jointer to flatten one edge, followed by #7 to refine.
- Use a table saw (jobsite) to make other side parallel and then again #7 to refine.


Till this point everything goes good. Time to execute the steps is improving with time. Normally, I can do 3-4 24"x6" boards in an hour.

Now comes time to cut the board to length. This is what eats up all the time. Sometimes as much as an hour on a board.

On less wide boards I use miter saw to cut one end. Then check if it's square with combination square. Invariably sides are off. I have yet not figured out how to adjust the saw.

So I use a small block plane to make adjustments. It's a pain. I think it's sharp. It can shave hairs but it just struggles to cut on end grain. On wider or thicker boards it's even more difficult. BTW this is all on fir/spruce sold in Homedepot.

And after all there is another end that requires same work.

Looking for suggestions on what would be the easiest way to make ends square on 6-12" wide boards.

Beside fixing my miter saw, the only option that pops in my head is to make a shooting boards. That leads to another question, what type of plane works good for shooting boards? And another question, how much square should boards be?

[lowell holmes]

I use a jointer and a thickness planer to square boards.

[James Brislawn]

I know this is the Neander forum, but if you’re already using a miter saw, my recommendation would be to learn to set it up properly. If you don’t have the instruction manual anymore I would put the model number in a google search and add the word manual (ie Bosch GCM12SD Manual). With it properly set up I get perfectly square edges as long as the board is square and it’s registered against the fence (which also must be square). I don’t own a table saw, but I find the miter saw invaluable in cutting boards to rough or even finished length (the only crosscut saw i own is a carcass saw and I’ve found it difficult to get good results with my rip cut panel saw). I also imagine you’d find some good instructional videos on YouTube for how to set up the miter saw. The way I see it, if your smoothing plane wasn’t producing silky smooth shavings you’d sharpen, adjust the depth, check the lateral adjustment, the concept on the miter saw is no different.

[Scott Winners]

OK, what are you trying to do with the 6s6 boards? 0.002" to 0.005" over two feet of face grain is better than my local professional custom millwork offers.

#1 fix your miter saw. That will continue to be a pain in the neck until you make it no longer a pain in the neck. I have a pretty nice radial arm saw my wife bought for me, but for square cuts I have to set the indicator at + 1.0 degrees, if I am going to the left +46.0 degrees makes a tight miter, going to the right -44.0 degrees makes a tight miter. There is no good reason to make all your saw cuts 1.0 degrees out and then clean up with a block plane, that is simply masochistic.

#2, a shooting board is a lovely thing to have on the shelf under your bench. Make them out of scrap wood over and over until you have one that is NASA nuts on perfect square, and then keep using that one.

#3, given the low price of you raw material, how about a known square square, a striking knife, a chisel to dig a little trench on the waste side, a sharp handsaw and some practice? Somewhere on this site I read the words "if you can see the line, you can cut to the line." I had to buy another light so I cold see the line, and then I had to practice cutting to the line, and then i got better at sharpening handsaws, and then I got better at cutting to the line....

#4 I am thinking your #7 is pretty darn sharp

#5 to prove your square is square, turn it opposite directions to draw two lines on the same face of a board that should be parallel. Are they parallel? Are your faces square to your edges? is your square square?

#6 I feel like there is something simple out of whack here, like you square is not square. Clearly your miter saw needs adjusted, or you can get a square square and a sharp handsaw.

I am keeping my powered radial arm saw. When I am in the shop just trying to relax in the process, a known square square and known sharp handsaw and some practice, I can start with s4s and get to 6s6 (adding end grain) in 15 minutes or so.

if you are making drawers or something dovetailed ( I stand to be corrected here) my MO is to leave the knife line on the work piece when I cut to length, lay out my dovetails with respect to the knife line, and then plane the excess off the end grain after the dovetails are cut and half the end grain is just not on the board any more.

best wishes and good luck

[Doug Dawson]

I know this is the Neander forum, but if you’re already using a miter saw, my recommendation would be to learn to set it up properly. If you don’t have the instruction manual anymore I would put the model number in a google search and add the word manual (ie Bosch GCM12SD Manual). With it properly set up I get perfectly square edges as long as the board is square and it’s registered against the fence (which also must be square). I don’t own a table saw, but I find the miter saw invaluable in cutting boards to rough or even finished length (the only crosscut saw i own is a carcass saw and I’ve found it difficult to get good results with my rip cut panel saw). I also imagine you’d find some good instructional videos on YouTube for how to set up the miter saw. The way I see it, if your smoothing plane wasn’t producing silky smooth shavings you’d sharpen, adjust the depth, check the lateral adjustment, the concept on the miter saw is no different.

I agree, set up the miter saw to work right. With good setup and a good blade you can get excellent results (I have a DeWalt 780 with a 100T blade and the cuts are practically finish-grade.)

BTW, if you're buying lumber from the Home Depot for furniture, you're probably paying more than twice what you'd pay at a decent local hardwood supplier (lumber yard that caters to the trade.)

[Anuj Prateek]

Thanks for the detailed reply Scott.

OK, what are you trying to do with the 6s6 boards? 0.002" to 0.005" over two feet of face grain is better than my local professional custom millwork offers.

>> I try to get to those numbers because I don't know how much flat is flat enough for a project. So as a rule of thumb I try to be closer to .002". Internet wisdom is all over the place and 've little experience of my own. When I get frustrated trying to reach .002", I switch to next feeler gauge and normally end up by I reach .005"


#1 fix your miter saw. That will continue to be a pain in the neck until you make it no longer a pain in the neck. I have a pretty nice radial arm saw my wife bought for me, but for square cuts I have to set the indicator at + 1.0 degrees, if I am going to the left +46.0 degrees makes a tight miter, going to the right -44.0 degrees makes a tight miter. There is no good reason to make all your saw cuts 1.0 degrees out and then clean up with a block plane, that is simply masochistic.


>> Yup, going to get it done today.


#2, a shooting board is a lovely thing to have on the shelf under your bench. Make them out of scrap wood over and over until you have one that is NASA nuts on perfect square, and then keep using that one.

>> Going to try this. My miter saw cant cut more than 8".


#3, given the low price of you raw material, how about a known square square, a striking knife, a chisel to dig a little trench on the waste side, a sharp handsaw and some practice? Somewhere on this site I read the words "if you can see the line, you can cut to the line." I had to buy another light so I cold see the line, and then I had to practice cutting to the line, and then i got better at sharpening handsaws, and then I got better at cutting to the line....

>> Have bunch of good squares, and knife. Have tried it but still not good at it. More practice needed. I would love to go this route so that I can work in nights when I using power tools are no-no.


#6 I feel like there is something simple out of whack here, like you square is not square. Clearly your miter saw needs adjusted, or you can get a square square and a sharp handsaw.

>> Miter saw for sure does not cut square. My squares are good. At least all of them agree with each other.


best wishes and good luck

>> Thank you

[Anuj Prateek]

I agree, set up the miter saw to work right. With good setup and a good blade you can get excellent results (I have a DeWalt 780 with a 100T blade and the cuts are practically finish-grade.)

BTW, if you're buying lumber from the Home Depot for furniture, you're probably paying more than twice what you'd pay at a decent local hardwood supplier (lumber yard that caters to the trade.)

Found the manual. Will setup the saw today. Don't know why I was just not doing it.

Right now I end up wasting lot of wood, so I buy from HD. The 2x12" end up pretty cheap. I treat it as rough lumber and practice using it.

For projects I am confident of execution, I buy hardwood from lumber stores (Crosscut Seattle) or Rockler (based on quantity needed).

[Doug Dawson]

Right now I end up wasting lot of wood, so I buy from HD. The 2x12" end up pretty cheap. I treat it as rough lumber and practice using it..

Construction-grade lumber is not very good to practice on. It's not usually dried to our standards, it's crude and rough in texture. Try something more accessible like alder (again from a lumber yard, not HD.)

[Anuj Prateek]

Construction-grade lumber is not very good to practice on. It's not usually dried to our standards, it's crude and rough in texture. Try something more accessible like alder (again from a lumber yard, not HD.)

Noted. Will buy and try some on next trip to lumber store.

[Warren Mickley]

In 1976 I was planing end grain with with a block plane. My fingers were cramping and tiring and I thought "people did not put up with this in 1790". I never used a block plane for anything again.

Cut to length before cutting to width. In other words, don't cut to width before cutting to length. Clear enough?

Lay out your length on the board with knife and square so that each end is knifed all the way around. Saw as close to the line as you can. Put the board vertically in the vise, chamfer the far corner (where you have extra width), and plane with a bench plane. Don't use a block plane. Plane to the line. You can check with a square, but the main thing is that your length and squareness are set up by your layout.

[Pat Barry]

Table saw, crosscut sled

[Matthew Hills]

Good that you're spending time paying attention to your boards as you work on them. The feeler gauges seem a bit excessive; think I normally do a visual check against reference straight edges or check for stability on bench top.

Breaking down parts to rough size first, before milling is very good advice, as well -- this really helps minimize the total amount you need to flatten, and helps preserve stock thickness, if that is needed for your design.

The advice to use Alder is good. Construction lumber tends to be very wet, which means it will warp as it dries out. Wood that is already dried can still have problems and can move after initial milling. This can be quite extreme (warping immediately after being cut, which usually means I'll discard the piece), or more gently, overnight. Sometimes you'll get lucky with a very stable board, and will then try to buy more of those boards. I'll often mill in two steps -- a rough mill first, and then a final pass a day (or few days) later.

Crosscut sled is very useful for square crosscuts if you are working with table saw. William Ng has a good video on how to make one of these (https://wnwoodworkingschool.com/5-cuts-to-a-perfect-cross-cut-sled/).

Bob R has a decent video intro to milling by hand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tvxy_UOGMY&t=25s).


Matt

[Anuj Prateek]

In 1976 I was planing end grain with with a block plane. My fingers were cramping and tiring and I thought "people did not put up with this in 1790". I never used a block plane for anything again.

Cut to length before cutting to width. In other words, don't cut to width before cutting to length. Clear enough?

Lay out your length on the board with knife and square so that each end is knifed all the way around. Saw as close to the line as you can. Put the board vertically in the vise, chamfer the far corner (where you have extra width), and plane with a bench plane. Don't use a block plane. Plane to the line. You can check with a square, but the main thing is that your length and squareness are set up by your layout.

I did not think of this. Will try this out. I always assumed that I need to use low angle plane on end grain so did not try bench plane.

It's a good suggestion to first cut to width. Will take away worry about splitting the edges when planing.

[Anuj Prateek]

Thanks Matt.

I need to get hold of how precise is precise enough for a project. Guess it comes from experience.

I checked price of Alder online, does seem too costly. Definitely going to try it.

My table saw is a DeWalt Jobsite saw so was doubtful if cross cut sledge will do good on it and so never tried.

[Jim Koepke]

Need help in figuring out any easy way to square boards.

The easy way is to pay someone else to do it.

A few large boards were squared recently in my shop:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272588

410718

This is a piece of fir (variety unknown) as finished is fully 3"X8"X7'. It was a good workout. The other piece was poplar finished to 4"X10"X7'. It too was a great workout. Even though it was a bit smaller the fir was more work since its rough milling was done by chainsaw.

The only machine in my shop to be used was the rough squaring of the fir done on my bandsaw.

Oops! :eek: My error with the image posted that is actually a standard 4X6.

Here is the poplar at a point just before finishing being smoothed:

410719

Here is the fir before being cut on the bandsaw:

410720

jtk

[Anuj Prateek]

Whao! That's some heavy work. Have never worked with that large piece of wood. Everything I buy gets cut to 4-6' so that I can fit it in my car.

Funnily, ~2 years back for this-that type of work, I used to buy finished boards from HD. Yep, I bought few lengths of Walnut for like $15-20. Somedays, I still want to buy them but finding one board that would be straight and square is a pain.

[Jim Koepke]

Whao! That's some heavy work. Have never worked with that large piece of wood. Everything I buy gets cut to 4-6' so that I can fit it in my car.

That is one thing my car is good for. It can carry 8' boards without a problem. When buying longer pieces, my pick-up truck gets the job.

There was an error in my previous post which has been corrected. A couple more images have been added.

jtk

[Joel David Katz]

Table saw, crosscut sled

Bingo. Give than man a cigar.

[Jim Koepke]

Noted. Will buy and try some on next trip to lumber store.

Have you shopped at Crosscut Hardwoods?

http://www.crosscutseattle.com

There is a good reason they call it, "The Woodworker's Candy Store."

My visits to their Portland store has found some wonderful pieces of wood.

jtk

[James Brislawn]

Let me start by saying the table saw/ crosscut sled method will definitely work, and work well... but the man already has a miter saw which will work even better once setup properly. (Blade is designed for crosscut, no need to build a new jig, safer, quicker).

[Normand Leblanc]

In 1976 I was planing end grain with with a block plane. My fingers were cramping and tiring and I thought "people did not put up with this in 1790". I never used a block plane for anything again.

Cut to length before cutting to width. In other words, don't cut to width before cutting to length. Clear enough?

Lay out your length on the board with knife and square so that each end is knifed all the way around. Saw as close to the line as you can. Put the board vertically in the vise, chamfer the far corner (where you have extra width), and plane with a bench plane. Don't use a block plane. Plane to the line. You can check with a square, but the main thing is that your length and squareness are set up by your layout.

This 100%. I have the same exact technique and it's working great for me.

[Brian Holcombe]

Have you ever checked your square? I finally put standards in the shop and it has been very helpful in chasing out annoying bugs. I use an angle block that has been hand scraped on every face, it is accurate to a few tenths (.0000) so very reliable.

I prefer Warren’s approach by hand.

A SCMS will never produce a consistently reliable square cut, but a standard MS can be adjusted square, once adjusted check your cuts every time.

[Anuj Prateek]

Yup. Have a few machinist squares which agree with each other. I use then as reference. Have a Starrett combination square, when checked against the machinist squares, I can barely see any light.

[Anuj Prateek]

Update:

1)

Spent yesterday afternoon tuning my miter saw. It's not where I would like it to be but it's better than before. Right now it cuts a little extra at the entry and exit.

Don't know how to explain it but will try. We will call edge that butts against fence as reference edge. And the face where blade enters as top.

After cut if you put square on reference edge, near top then there is a little extra cut near reference edge. It cut a little less than 90.

If you put the square near bottom then there is extra cut away from edge. It cuts a little more than 90.

Huh, basically on entry cut starts a little less than 90 and on exit it's a little more than 90.

Overall I am getting cuts better than 1/64" on 6" wideboard.

I have to still tune the vertical angle. Ran out of jointed board yesterday.

2)

Tried hand cutting. I need lot of practice. Will keep practicing.

3)

Have not decided if I should try shooting board first or table saw sledge. At surface plans for both seem simple. In case of crosscut sledge I have doubts if it will work nicely on my Jobsite saw. Shooting board looks more simple so will probably try it first.

[Phil Mueller]

Anuj, I have a Delta contractor saw as well. Way back I did build a crosscut sled for it and it worked reasonably well. Keep in mind if you decide to try that, the table saw surface area is small. The crosscut sled needs to be small as well, otherwise you need to have in-feed and out-feed tables. While it works, I just haven’t used it in quite some time. In fact, I don’t even use the saw for crosscuts anymore. All my crosscuts are done with a handsaw and then squared up with either the method Warren shared, or a shooting board.

[Brian Holcombe]

This may seem crazy :D but this is the only method I use anymore to check square. I've given up on relying upon squares for checking my results. This is a surface plate (not a piece of granite counter top) and the angle blocks are hand scraped by a professional scraper.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/img_3479.jpg

Anywho, if the saw is a sliding compound miter saw it probably will never be able to produce a 90 degree cut, except by accident. I've used nice ones and they let you down like any other. The machines have linear rails and the support for the rails will deflect during the cut. The Kapex I had always produce a cut with a slight crown to it, so even on the chance that it did produce a nearly 90 degree cut, it would always have a very minor crown to it, preventing it from meeting up neatly to its adjoining board.

Not to mention other issues, like the fence faces not being parallel to one another or being on the same plane.

I replaced the SCMS with a standard chop saw (without the ability to compound or slide) and that saw, built like a tank, chops square. Even still I check about every 10th cut to make sure it's accurate.


In lieu of this, use Warren's method with a plane, you can build and tune a vise that will hold the part at 90 degrees in both directions.

[Anuj Prateek]

Yup. That's the Lumber Store I was referring.
It's a little far (in Seattle traffic) so sometimes when I need just a board I buy from Rockler.

[Anuj Prateek]

Truck is on my wishlist :) We have some plans to move to Canada, which is delaying the purchase.

[Anuj Prateek]

Well that got to be square :) I checked on eBay and these are some costly squares.


I have 12" Dewalt DW718 - so not sliding. I was getting pretty bad cuts. After tuning its doing better than 1/64". Have to still tune up the vertical angle (on coming Saturday). Will love to get it as close to accurate as possible. If nothing post-cleanup work gets reduced.