Fixing a convex sole hand plane

[Anuj Prateek]

Hello,

Long back I bought an old but Like New Stanley #3, from Supertools. It looks practically unused. Not a scratch on body or elsewhere.

Recently I sharpened it. Tried using it but could not get it to cut even depth. It takes full width shavings but thickness varies on even a jointed board. Have a #4 from Veritas and a #5 from WoodRiver. Both worked fine on same board. Tried applying all pressure in front and it worked better. Tried applying all pressure towards back and it worked better.

So I doubted that sole is not flat. I tried a straight edge on sole. Appears starting at mouth to right behind mouth, sole is proud by almost 1/8".

First thought was to try flattening using sandpaper on granite block. Then thought to put blocks of wood at ends and applying some pressure in middle by standing on it. Lastly thought to use a file to flatten the middle.

Before trying any of the intrusive approaches on otherwise beautiful plane, wanted to get suggestions on which approach to go with or know if there is any other approach.

I intend to use it as smoother or as a shooting plane.

- Anuj

Edit:

- On actually measuring it instead of relying on eyes - it's 1/32" out. Can slip .015" feeler gauge on both ends.

[Scott Winners]

An eighth? 0.125" out of flat just behind the mouth?

[James Brislawn]

I think he’s talking about the gap measured at the end of the ruler, not an actual 1/8” hump which would be glaringly obvious without a square.

[Doug Dawson]

Hello,

Long back I bought an old but Like New Stanley #3, from Supertools. It looks practically unused. Not a scratch on body or elsewhere.

So I doubted that sole is not flat. I tried a straight edge on sole. Appears starting at mouth to right behind mouth, sole is proud by almost 1/8".



What is this "Supertools" that you refer to?

From what you're describing, I'd say you have a parts plane at best. Not worth bothering to flatten the sole, if it's what you appear to be describing. Thirty years ago we used to see this sort of thing from Stanley in the hardware stores, they were complete and utter junk.

[Anuj Prateek]

Yup. When I keep straight edge on the sole then there is ~1/8" gap on both ends.

[Anuj Prateek]

What is this "Supertools" that you refer to?
From what you're describing, I'd say you have a parts plane at best. Not worth bothering to flatten the sole, if it's what you appear to be describing. Thirty years ago we used to see this sort of thing from Stanley in the hardware stores, they were complete and utter junk.

Supertools is supertools.com. You get mail with old tools for sale. Then you order over email.


:( Back of my head I was worried there won't be a way to save it.

[Doug Dawson]

Supertools is supertools.com. You get mail with old tools for sale. Then you order over email.


That appears to be a site that sells kayaking trips.

[Anuj Prateek]

That appears to be a site that sells kayaking trips.

Ahh! I added extra 's'.

This is the correct website http://supertool.com/

[Doug Dawson]

Ahh! I added extra 's'.

This is the correct website http://supertool.com/

I highly doubt that Patrick Leach would sell you a tool that was so defective as described, unless there's something missing here. Talk to Patrick.

[Anuj Prateek]

I highly doubt that Patrick Leach would sell you a tool that was so defective as described, unless there's something missing here. Talk to Patrick.

Sorry, neither trolling nor trying to do anything to anyone reputation.
I went and measured it with feeler gauge instead of relying on eyes.
And yes, I am wrong. I can slip .015" feeler gauge on both ends. So its not 1/8" but 1/32".

Will drop him a mail.

[Frederick Skelly]

I highly doubt that Patrick Leach would sell you a tool that was so defective as described, unless there's something missing here. Talk to Patrick.

I agree with Doug. He is a reputable vendor.

The fact that you bought the tool "long back" does complicate providing good customer service though. How long ago did you actually buy this tool?

Please follow up with us on what Patrick says.

[Stewie Simpson]

Sorry, neither trolling nor trying to do anything to anyone reputation.
I went and measured it with feeler gauge instead of relying on eyes.
And yes, I am wrong. I can slip .015" feeler gauge on both ends. So its not 1/8" but 1/32".

Will drop him a mail.

Anuj; What ever you decide, try and avoid the extremely tight parameters of sole flatness that have fixated a USA engineer who frequently posts on the aussie forum site. There is a likely chance his employment background may include working for NASA.


Lie Nielsen says "The soles of our planes are machine ground flat and square to .0015" or better, regardless of length.". The WoodRiver plane was about 0.0002" or so out of flat at the start was thus about 7X flatter (?). A quick set of measurements of 4 LN's I have shows that they are all 0.0001" flat or better. Lapping should be reasonably doable.


Here is the plane bottom examined though the comparator up against the 2L (2 micron lapped) standard.




http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=455297&d=1558880808

[lowell holmes]

You might take the plane to a machine shop and have it ground flat.

[Stewie Simpson]

Lowell; re-read the post. Those LN soles had already been machine ground to an out of flat tolerance of 0.0001. That's likely less than the 10 -fold the length of a gnats scrotum.

[Anuj Prateek]

Anuj; What ever you decide, try and avoid the extremely tight parameters of sole flatness that have fixated a USA engineer who frequently posts on the aussie forum site. There is a likely chance his employment background may include working for NASA.http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=455297&d=1558880808

Hate to say that its similar line of thoughts that I go through and was getting fixated around.
Not to mention trying to hit crazy number start taking the fun out of woodworking.
Have decided not touch the planes sole. Will use it as is and will focus on how I use it.

[Anuj Prateek]

(Huh! somehow managed to delete the reply while editing. So writing back again.)


When newbies like me read on Internet, these are the kind of numbers that get mentioned. When someone says sole should be 0.001" flat vs flat enough, then the former becomes tangible. Later one is more difficult to comprehend without experience. This is where hearing from experienced people serves as a check.

I bought the plane last year in July, and got to sharpening it now.

I mailed Patrick yesterday and exchanged few mails today. Had searched him on Google yesterday night, and did not expect any replies. Was glad and surprised that he took out time to reply to mails.

I explained him the sole flatness problem, shaving I was getting and what I was trying to do. He explained that plane is working fine and will serve its purpose. Hearing from him has put my mind at ease.

I am not going to try to fix the sole. Will focus on using it and improving my technique.


Thanks everyone!

[Doug Dawson]

Lowell; re-read the post. Those LN soles had already been machine ground to an out of flat tolerance of 0.0001. That's likely less than the 10 -fold the length of a gnats scrotum.

OP wasn't referring to a LN, he was referring to a used Stanley.

To be clear, I've never advocated sole flattening, and I've never actually done that myself. I gaze on in wonder at some people who have done it. If I get a used plane that has actually been _used_ before, it's usually fine. I _have_ previously investigated why this is.

[Jim Koepke]

OP wasn't referring to a LN, he was referring to a used Stanley.

To be clear, I've never advocated sole flattening, and I've never actually done that myself. I gaze on in wonder at some people who have done it. If I get a used plane that has actually been _used_ before, it's usually fine. I _have_ previously investigated why this is.

Of all the planes that have passed through my shop only a couple actually benefited from sole flattening. Most of my sole lapping was to get rid of rust or other cosmetic issues.

Engaging in flattening a sole takes a lot of careful planning, constant checking and verification.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I was trained to "fettle" cast iron plane bodies with a relief at the toe and heel - the idea was to avoid a sharp edge.

My guess is that the OP has a tool that someone tuned.

The real test is how it handles, and the sort of surface left.

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodworking-tips-1305may/peakhandplane.html

[Warren Mickley]

(Huh! somehow managed to delete the reply while editing. So writing back again.)

I am not going to try to fix the sole. Will focus on using it and improving my technique.


Bravo! You would not believe how many people doctor the sole without even trying the plane. Then they have no feel for how much this flattening really affects the performance.

I am sure you can make great improvements with technique alone.

[Don McConnell]

Anuj,
The fact that you can detect a gap (under a straight edge I presume?) of .015", or ca. 1/64", at the toe and heel suggests to me that the sole of your plane is bowed enough to impact its performance. Especially in light of the fact that you encounter no such problems with a #4 & #5 on the same material. In fact, the improvement you describe when applying all pressure on the toe or the heel is consistent with this finding. Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.
Under the circumstances, suggesting that you "improve" your technique by accommodating this bowing is somewhat analogous to suggesting a person "learn to use" a saw which tends to track improperly because of uneven set, &c.
Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

[Doug Dawson]

Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.

If a plane looks like it's hardly ever been used, it makes me suspicious. I like obvious users.

OTOH, some people just like'em shiny.

This is where I part with people like Sellers, what with all the lapping and refinishing and polishing. You may as well go to the next step and paint pastoral scenes on the sides of it. :^) (No disrespect to Sellers, who is otherwise a good teacher.)

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I had a plane similarly out of flat so I flattened it with some sand paper on my workbench. Did not take long and it made a difference. There were other things causing problems as well such as needing to do something with the frog. I engaged Mr. Steve Newman to sort that out.

[Steve Voigt]

Anuj,
The fact that you can detect a gap (under a straight edge I presume?) of .015", or ca. 1/64", at the toe and heel suggests to me that the sole of your plane is bowed enough to impact its performance. Especially in light of the fact that you encounter no such problems with a #4 & #5 on the same material. In fact, the improvement you describe when applying all pressure on the toe or the heel is consistent with this finding. Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.
Under the circumstances, suggesting that you "improve" your technique by accommodating this bowing is somewhat analogous to suggesting a person "learn to use" a saw which tends to track improperly because of uneven set, &c.
Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR


I couldn't agree more. A sole doesn't need to be within .0001, but it for sure needs to be a lot better than .015.

[Warren Mickley]

I made my first double iron plane in 1975. I used a Stanley #4 plane and carefully flattened the sole so that no light could be seen with a straight edge. I was tickled with the result and I noticed that the new plane seemed to make an easier job of flattening stock than the old. So then for the first time I applied the straight edge to the Stanley plane and had quite a shock. It was concave, more than .015.

Of course there was an improvement in the ease of planing when I later flattened the Stanley. However, it was quite surprising that I was able to make joints and flatten stock with the sole in a poor condition. I have two examples of joints from that era; after all this time I still can't understand how I was able to do this.

I have seen internet people argue that a flat plane will necessarily plane a hollow because the iron extends below the flat sole. And I have seen people argue that if one starts with a nicely jointed edge and takes of thin shavings it will shortly become convex. I have found both of these claims to be false. I think technique is a definite factor in how the plane performs.

[Anuj Prateek]

It's actually does not show any sign of use ever. Sole has factory grind. AFAIR it's an old new stock. Only cosmetic blemish it has is two small rust spots on side.

[Anuj Prateek]

Thanks Don! Technique is where I am going to focus right now.

Going to use it as shooting plane (after I make my shooting board). Will bug the folks here as I face problems.

[Anuj Prateek]

I like them shiny :) Can't explain the smile the new #7 from Lee Valley brought.

I tend to buy new tools - though I won't mind saving money buying old. One thing that does deter me is that I doubt I will be able to fix the tool if something is wrong. Maybe after few years!

[Jim Koepke]

I think technique is a definite factor in how the plane performs.

Technique is what allows a good craftsperson to use a crappy tool to do a fine job.

jtk

[Don McConnell]

So ... the idea is that one can demonstrate/experience a superiority of skill/technique through using a "crappy tool" to do the job? So, how far does this go? For example, is it even "better" if one doesn't bother to sharpen the iron, make lateral adjustments, neglect the fit of the cap iron (if there is one), &c, &c.?
In my experience, a poorly tuned tool is more likely to lead to poor technique due to stress induced by the unnecessary effort to get such a tool to work. Witness the "death grip" often developed during the use of an improperly sharpened and set saw.
My primary purpose in getting involved in this thread was to try and help Anuj to avoid such stress/frustration. One of the things which "hooked" me on hand tool woodworking was when I reached a point where I realized that I'd learned enough to be able to work with a plane (or any other tool) which was properly tuned for the job at hand -- and realize that the tool was actually helping me reach my goal rather than frustrate it.
Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

[Jim Koepke]

So ... the idea is that one can demonstrate/experience a superiority of skill/technique through using a "crappy tool" to do the job?

Of course not. Often one might be asked to work on something when they do not have "a well tuned tool" at hand. Being able to utilize what is less than optimum is sometimes necessary. Part of a craftsperson's technique, imo, is being able to "tune" a crappy tool to do the best it is capable of doing. Another part is being able to sharpen the blade and use the adjustments for best performance on the work at hand.

What is that old saying about a good worker doesn't blame shoddy work on bad tools? Part of that is because a good worker will not put up with a shoddy tool for long before fixing it or replacing it.

If the plane were mine to deal with the sole would be flattened to the best of my ability. That can be a lot of work. If done incorrectly it can make the plane worse. My suggestion for Anuj is to see if a local machine shop can be found to correct the sole.

Anuj mentioned this plane was purchased long ago. Maybe the lesson to be learned in a thread like this is do not purchase something that will sit on a shelf a long time before finding it has a problem. Most likely if this problem arose and was reported within a week or so of purchasing the response from the seller might have been different.

jtk

[Anuj Prateek]

Anuj mentioned this plane was purchased long ago. Maybe the lesson to be learned in a thread like this is do not purchase something that will sit on a shelf a long time before finding it has a problem.

>> Yup. I jump on buying tools even when I don't need them right way or near future. Have curbed the habit a bit but still not completely cured.
>> Saw Lee Valley free shipping yesterday and 'am restraining myself to not order everything that are sitting in "Purchase Later".

If done incorrectly it can make the plane worse.

>> This is what scares me.

My suggestion for Anuj is to see if a local machine shop can be found to correct the sole.

>> Don't know any but will sure see if something is in area. Though now will make the shooting board first and try the plane as is, and then go from there.

[Jim Koepke]

Though now will make the shooting board first and try the plane as is, and then go from there.

A #3 isn't really what you would want for a shooting board plane. A longer and wider plane allows for more "running room" after the toe is registered on the work piece.

jtk

[Anuj Prateek]

I have a #4, #5 and #7 apart from #3.

Which plane would work better? If not #3 then I am biased towards #5 as it doesn't see much use.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a #4, #5 and #7 apart from #3.

Which plane would work better? If not #3 then I am biased towards #5 as it doesn't see much use.

A #5 is often referred to as a "Jack" plane as in a Jack of all trades. It is often used as a shooting plane.

If you have enough room the #7 can be useful due to its weight and a wider blade.

At times in one of my low angle block planes is also used on a shooting board.

For my shooting work a Low Angle Jack plane is used. Due to an old shoulder injury an LN #62 was purchased to endure less shock to my right shoulder. Since then, my shooting board has been modified to work both left and right handed. Now most of my shooting is done left handed.

jtk

[Winston Chang]

If the sole is convex, one thing you can do is to use a short strip of sandpaper on the granite block -- maybe just a few inches long, or even less if the convexity is very localized. With a very short strip of sandpaper, even if you do rock the plane when moving it back and forth, there's simply no abrasive that can remove material at the ends. Once the convexity is removed (or even if you go too far and make it concave), you can then use a longer strip to really flatten the bottom. If the plane is longer than your granite block (or really, the sandpaper), you will have to be careful to apply pressure in a way that doesn't make the plane concave.

[steven c newman]

IF it is just on the ends...that would be from wear...all that pressure on the toe to start, the all the pressure on the heel at the end....adds up over the decades of use. try the plane out, just like the oldtimers used it....might be surprised.....

Check the areas just behind the toe, and just in front of the heel...see IF they align with the areas right in front of the mouth, and right behind it......

2 finger check to see IF a sole is "warped" ( wood warps...cast iron? Not.)

1 finger in front of the front handle and 1 right behind the rear handle...try to get the plane to "see-saw" using pressure with one finger and then the other....IF the surface you set the plane on is flat...doubt IF you will get any movement....just a quick 1 minute check....let me know.

[lowell holmes]

I have nine planes and non have ever needed grinding. I do have Hock Irons and Breakers on them.

[Jim Koepke]

I have nine planes and non have ever needed grinding. I do have Hock Irons and Breakers on them.

There are many more than that in my accumulation. Only one of them ever had a problem with the sole being out of flat. From all that can be determined it was due to a previous owner trying to lap the sole.

So often there is a video or other 'how to tune your plane' article leading people to believe lapping a sole is something every plane requires.

If the sole is rusty or has scratches, it can be cleaned up a little with care on a flat surface or with a sanding block. Otherwise it is best to leave it alone.

Unless you have a very smooth and wide file you might want to stick to sandpaper on a hard flat surface or on a hardwood block for localized metal removal.

jtk

[Anuj Prateek]

Tried it. Kept plane on jointer table. Very slight see-saw. How do I explain slight? Can see it by eyes but cannot feel finger moving.

Plane has not seen any use. Sole has factory grind. My crude guess: if I draw a straight line from front and another from back, then they will intersect at an angle right behind the mouth.

[Anuj Prateek]

Thanks Winston. Saved the tip. Will try after I gain a little more experience. Right now I am sure I will screw it up more.

[Anuj Prateek]

Noted. Have room for #7. Will size the board accordingly.

My #7 saves the title of most used plane, for me.

Another quick question. Does this help with using plane on shooting board: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182&p=77042


#7 is Lee Valley custom with standard configuration.

[Stewie Simpson]

Tried it. Kept plane on jointer table. Very slight see-saw. How do I explain slight? Can see it by eyes but cannot feel finger moving.

Plane has not seen any use. Sole has factory grind. My crude guess: if I draw a straight line from front and another from back, then they will intersect at an angle right behind the mouth.

Anuj; prior to checking the soles flatness, is the double iron locked in tension with the lever cap.

[Anuj Prateek]

Yup. It was on, blade retracted.

Took some photos of the plane. Tried shining a light from behind but keeping phone steady is difficult. If you zoom on photo a bit, you will be able to see the gap. Jointer is old but table itself is flat (better than .0015").

The only thing done to plane (at least by me), is sharpening the blade, few swipes on cap iron edge, polishing the lever cap, and overall plane clean up using WD-40.

Front
410908

Back
410909

Assembled
410910

Sole. Looking at it, feels like it has not been used.
410911

Cap Iron
410912

Blade
410913

[Jim Koepke]

Noted. Have room for #7. Will size the board accordingly.

My #7 saves the title of most used plane, for me.

Another quick question. Does this help with using plane on shooting board: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182&p=77042


#7 is Lee Valley custom with standard configuration.

Does it already have the attachement holes for the handle?

Otherwise you can make your own:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?130114

Derek Cohen also makes some they are easy to find under shop made tools on his >inthewoodshop< site.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I think the OP may have missed your gentle inference.
He may not be aware of your deep experience, either.

http://www.planemaker.com/aboutus.html

[John Schtrumpf]

Noted. Have room for #7. Will size the board accordingly.

My #7 saves the title of most used plane, for me.

Another quick question. Does this help with using plane on shooting board: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182&p=77042


#7 is Lee Valley custom with standard configuration.

First: That grip/knob will fit a Lee Valley Veritas® Customizable #7 Jointer Plane (06P07.71A and all customized versions). It screws into the fence holes which are standardized on the Lee Valley Veritas Custom planes.

Second: I would try shooting with both your #5 and #7 first before buying it. That way you would know which plane you prefer to use first.

Third: I don't have that grip/knob. But I do have the Lee Valley Veritas Miter Plane, which has a similar grip/knob. The grip/knob fits a hand position which works for shooting. When shooting one pushes the plane forwards, while at the same time pushing sideways into the board (low on the plane adjacent to the bottom wing).

[Anuj Prateek]

I think the OP may have missed your gentle inference.
He may not be aware of your deep experience, either.

http://www.planemaker.com/aboutus.html


I did not have any clue.


I am super happy to be part of this community where so many experts and experienced people from the field are helping beginners.


On side not, now I want a wooden rabbet plane :)

[Jim Matthews]

Good choice.

I live in a humid environment, where wooden body planes excel.

***

We walk among Giants, here.

Zahid Naqvi compiled essential lore, here:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Please explore Derek Cohen's most excellent site.
Much of what I successfully employ in my humble shop was explained, there.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

Kudos to you in keeping our ancient pursuit alive.

Jim in Massachusetts, USA

[Jeff Bartley]

We definitely walk amoung giants here! I just scrolled through the list that Zahid compiled, the amount of knowledge represented there is really staggering! Sadly, there's many names there that we don't hear from anymore.

Anuj, I'll cast my vote that you should work on the sole to make it flatter. Like Winston said I'd take a narrow strip of sandpaper on a flat surface and run the plane over it perpendicular only abrading the center area of the plane. Check your progress often and when a straight edge shows flatness or a little concavity switch to a big piece of sandpaper and lap the entire surface.

But before you lap the entire surface put a series of crosshatches over the entire surface. Lap it just a little and see where the high spots are. If it's still convex go back to just abrading the center.

Also, make sure that during this process you have the iron installed but retracted and the lever cap is tight.

I had a plane early on that was concave and I just couldn't make it work well. It was so frustrating! Finally, I lapped it and it was amazing afterwards. It remains one of the best in the rack.

I would also repeat the excellent advise that Jim K often puts out that you should reach out to other creekers; maybe someone is close by who would be willing to help you learn to fettle a plane. You'd likely gain an excellent plane and a friend!

[Jeff Bartley]

Also, Don, it's good to see you here and I must pass along a 'hello' from my Dad, Terry. You guys were fraternity bros at BW!

[Jim Koepke]

Anuj, Do you ever drive to Portland?

jtk

[Winston Chang]

Anuj, I'll cast my vote that you should work on the sole to make it flatter. Like Winston said I'd take a narrow strip of sandpaper on a flat surface and run the plane over it perpendicular only abrading the center area of the plane. Check your progress often and when a straight edge shows flatness or a little concavity switch to a big piece of sandpaper and lap the entire surface.


Just last night I decided to flatten a #5 that I recently acquired which badly needed a tune-up. (The person I bought it from buys and rehabs planes, and uses a belt sander to do so. He told me that he just likes planes; he doesn't really do much woodworking -- and I think the results showed that.)

The sole was convex, and I used the short-strip technique to make the middle very slightly concave. Once the concave area was long enough, I felt confident that I could lap the whole thing without rocking it. I put down a long strip of sandpaper (well, really, one sheet of sandpaper ripped into three strips that I put end-to-end) and lapped the sole. The front right corner and rear left corner are still a bit lifted, but those relatively small areas don't affect performance in most cases. The plane now works very predictably and reliably.

Here's a picture of what it looked like shortly before I stopped. You can see which parts were abraded by the sandpaper, and which weren't. At this point I think I had gone through three sheets of 80 grit sandpaper. If I were to completely flatten the whole thing, I'm guessing that I would use around five more sheets.

410939

A couple more notes: I used spray adhesive on the back of the sandpaper and adhered it to a granite countertop. I've checked the flatness of the countertop with a good straightedge, and I can't see any light between the straightedge and the granite. I'm lucky to have a large, very flat surface available without having to buy and store a huge heavy rock.

In the future, I think I'd get a roll of PSA sandpaper, mostly because it's inconvenient for me to deal with the spray adhesive.

[Don McConnell]

Also, Don, it's good to see you here and I must pass along a 'hello' from my Dad, Terry. You guys were fraternity bros at BW!

Hi Jeff,

Very good to hear from you. Reading your father's name brings up memories from a "couple of years ago." :-) I remember Terry very fondly, so please say hello to him for me. Thanks!

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

[Anuj Prateek]

Anuj, Do you ever drive to Portland?

jtk


Yup.

Will most probably be planning sometimes end of June or mid-July.

[Jim Koepke]

PM sent.

jtk

[Anuj Prateek]

Got it. Replied.

(Let me know if you don't see it. It does not appear in my Sent Messages).

[Warren Mickley]

In 1983 I had worn through my smoothing plane iron and I bought an old junker plane for its high quality iron. The plane was a wood bottom Bailey No. 35 from maybe 1915. I never used the plane, just the iron.

Reading this thread I got the idea that I could replicate Anuj's plane. The Bailey sole was already convex from use, so getting it up to .016 out of flat was pretty quick. It worked OK. I was able to take .001 shavings and I was able to flatten an edge to where there was no light.

One thing I was reminded of is that flatness across the width of the plane is much more important than flatness in length. A wooden plane whose sole is hollow or convex across the width has trouble taking consistent shavings. I also had trouble sorting out when the clumsiness of this plane was due to the convex sole or due to my not being used to this particular plane. I have used the same bench planes for so long that everything else seems clumsy.

[Don McConnell]

Well, Warren, in a previous post you described how your properly flattened Stanley plane was easier to use and get the desired results. So, I guess I don't quite the point of your little experiment. After all, Anuj mentioned that he was able to get better performance by changing his technique. So, I don't think anyone has claimed that a plane with such a bow in its sole could not be made to work at all. So, I'm a little unclear what you're attempting to "prove." Are you trying to imply that anyone who isn't willing to put up with such an issue is, somehow, a lesser craftsperson?
I guess that might make sense if one considers planing to be a form of penance or some kind of masochistic ritual. Otherwise, as a mere mortal, I prefer to work with tools which are properly tuned and which I can easily work with to get the desired results. I know, from personal experience, that when I was working full time only with hand tools, properly tuned tools were not only more pleasant to use, but I was more productive. Of course, I was primarily working with wood-bodied planes, so flattening their soles when needed was relatively quick and straight-forward. I don't know that I would care to tackle a metal plane which is out of true by 1/64" - even a #3 Stanley.

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

[Jim Koepke]

One of my problem planes was a #60 type block plane. It had a concave sole. If the blade was extended enough to take a shaving without pressing down on the plane, it would grab into the wood and take a thick shaving, often breaking free and then repeating. Flattening the sole improved its performance. It was still not a great plane and was put up for auction.

Technique can make up for less than an optimum tool. The ability to correct the problems of an errant tool are among the abilities a craftsperson needs to avoid the frustrations of such tools.

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

I'm not sure what the problem is. I found that I was in a position to replicate Anuj's plane. It took five minutes to find the plane and less time to prepare the sole. The exercise did remind me how important flatness across the width is, which i reported.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not sure what the problem is. I found that I was in a position to replicate Anuj's plane. It took five minutes to find the plane and less time to prepare the sole. The exercise did remind me how important flatness across the width is, which i reported.

Yes, it can be problematic if the sole is concave or convex over the width. Here is one of my planes that had that fate:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?132457

The plane is working great now.

jtk

[Kurtis Johnson]

From what you're describing, I'd say you have a parts plane at best. Not worth bothering to flatten the sole…utter junk.I agree with Doug. Your plane is what some like to call banana shaped. In a big way. It can happen over time and use (or misuse?). The first No. 4 I purchased off Big Internet had this issue. Beautiful in every other way. Shame.

Edit: I see you say it's unused new old stock. I concede that the banana-ing occurred not from use but probably slipped through quality control at the factory. Strange.

[Kurtis Johnson]

… Also, there'd be a problem with grinding this down. Grinding down a plane this out of flat—and this is a significant hump, imo—at such a critical place as the toe/mouth would thin the metal at the mouth by the same amount and therefore would become fracture prone there.

[Kurtis Johnson]

Anuj,
The fact that you can detect a gap (under a straight edge I presume?) of .015", or ca. 1/64", at the toe and heel suggests to me that the sole of your plane is bowed enough to impact its performance. Especially in light of the fact that you encounter no such problems with a #4 & #5 on the same material. In fact, the improvement you describe when applying all pressure on the toe or the heel is consistent with this finding. Possibly this goes a long way toward explaining why an older plane such as this would show very little use. I suspect you're not the first potential user to be frustrated by its performance.
Under the circumstances, suggesting that you "improve" your technique by accommodating this bowing is somewhat analogous to suggesting a person "learn to use" a saw which tends to track improperly because of uneven set, &c.

Best advice, Don.