Conventional ripping on a slider

[Jon Snider]

I’ve reviewed the last couple hundred threads here and while I’ve seen lots of discussions on sliding table saws I haven’t come across this specific question. Sorry if I missed it.

When ripping long narrow pieces (such as gunwale stock) using the ripping fence (assuming the material is too long or narrow for other options such as clamped to the sliding table or with a F&F jig), why does everyone comment on how it’s cumbersome standing in front of the table and reaching across? Or along the same lines, how at least it’s safe out of line of a kickback? It seems to me your reaching arm is right in line.

Assuming the standard slider configuration of fence to the right of the blade, why not stand to the right side of the saw (on the other side of the table) and use your left hand with a push stick? Wouldn’t the riving knife help keep the wood in line even if you don’t keep it perfectly tight to the fence from that angle?

Setting up a new K700 so just asking theoretical questions with no practical experience yet.

Thanks. Jon.

[johnny means]

I consider myself very familiar and comfortable with using a slider. I've used them daily for twenty years now. What your describing, which I've done, is awkward. IMO, one real does need to be working in the left side of the fence for optimal control. The riving knife is a safety feature and doesn't do much hold down duty well at all.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Jon,
You can rip on a slider exactly as you always have on a cabinet saw. However, you will find that using the sliding table for mounting and cutting the stock will be more enjoyable, more precise, and yes, safer. On a slider, your fence becomes a measuring “stop-block”

[Mike King]

If it is too long for the slider, then you'd be better off ripping it on the band saw.

Mike

[Michael Koons]

I think Jon is describing situations where the stock is longer than the sliding table. In that case, I think the only option is to rip like you would on a regular table saw. I had this a lot when I had my 5.5' Minimax. I haven't had it come up with my 10' table but it could if I had really long boards to rip.

I am left handed, so I always used to stand on the right side of the blade using a push stick and keeping pressure into the fence. No part of my body was in the line of fire. I have been told repeatedly that my way was the unsafe way, but I wasn't comfortable using my right hand and reaching across the blade to push.

Since I have the 10' slider, I haven't ripped a board longer than 10', so I just do everything on the sliding table and do what John describes above, using the the rip fence as a very accurate "stop-block".

[Dan Friedrichs]

Jon, the "beam" (the fixed support for the sliding table) is generally right where you'd want to stand if you were using the rip fence like a traditional table saw. Many short-stroke sliders don't have this problem, as the beam doesn't extend past the cabinet.

Thus, the options are to stand far left of the blade and reach over the sliding table, stand just right of the blade and risk getting hit with a kickback, or stand to the right of the fence (as you describe). I think standing to the right of the fence sounds dangerous - while the riving knife helps, consider that there is space between the blade and riving knife, and the wood could be picked up by the rear teeth if you aren't holding it tight to the fence. You're right that it "should work", though, and if you can do it in a way that is comfortable and gives adequate control of the stock...

[Tom Bender]

John I think you're ready for a stock feeder.

(for those who missed it, gunwale stock is as long as you can get it)

[Patrick Kane]

Agreed, riving knife kinda does diddly in terms of forcing your workpiece to register against the fence. Like others said, on anything longer than a 3-4’ stroke the carriage beam gets in the way. It’s very awkward. I have the optional and robust overarm guard, so standing to the left of the sliding table is difficult because the guard is in the way. On really long stock this would be a dumb position. You would be in a difficult position to support that length through the cut. In the very rare instances I rip on the slider, I use the slider. I’m unsatisfied enough with long or narrow rips that I keep a PM72 in my small shop. Cabinet saws are cheap, I would get one alongside your slider. Then again, I like tools.

[Jim Becker]

It's easier to do this with a short-stroke slider than with one that has an 8-10' wagon because of the structural support for the wagon being longer and as someone noted, being right where you would be most comfortable doing a long conventional rip. I have an 8'6" wagon and don't prefer to use the conventional rip fence for this kind of task if I don't have to because of the cumbersome body position. And no, I'd never be comfortable trying to do it with my left hand. But that's me.

[Jon Snider]

I think Jon is describing situations where the stock is longer than the sliding table. In that case, I think the only option is to rip like you would on a regular table saw. I had this a lot when I had my 5.5' Minimax. I haven't had it come up with my 10' table but it could if I had really long boards to rip.

I am left handed, so I always used to stand on the right side of the blade using a push stick and keeping pressure into the fence. No part of my body was in the line of fire. I have been told repeatedly that my way was the unsafe way, but I wasn't comfortable using my right hand and reaching across the blade to push.

Since I have the 10' slider, I haven't ripped a board longer than 10', so I just do everything on the sliding table and do what John describes above, using the the rip fence as a very accurate "stop-block".

Thanks Michael. That’s what I’m trying to say. Even with my 10’ table gunwale stock is too long for optimal sliding table rips (which I understand after watching the many videos from Steve Rowe and others). I’ve used my band saws in past but prefer a more finished edge. Looks like I may also keep my PM66.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Thanks Michael. That’s what I’m trying to say. Even with my 10’ table gunwale stock is too long for optimal sliding table rips (which I understand after watching the many videos from Steve Rowe and others). I’ve used my band saws in past but prefer a more finished edge. Looks like I may also keep my PM66.

Don’t know why you would need the PM to rip long pieces on the right side of the blade when you could do the same on a slider (right side of blade rip)?

[marty fretheim]

I agree. Don't get much safer than that.

410591
John I think you're ready for a stock feeder.

(for those who missed it, gunwale stock is as long as you can get it)

[Jon Snider]

Interestingly I looked through the user manual this morning and Felder does show a pic recommending position “AP2” for use of the rip fence.

410594

[Jim Becker]

Don’t know why you would need the PM to rip long pieces on the right side of the blade when you could do the same on a slider (right side of blade rip)?
The issue, as details by several of us in this discussion, is the physical position where one has to stand for ripping with the fence on a slider with a longer wagon. You cannot stand in the same place as you would with a "North American style" cabinet saw for this cut because of the slider's support infrastructure. The cutting is not a problem. The operator's place in the equation is.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Michael. That’s what I’m trying to say. Even with my 10’ table gunwale stock is too long for optimal sliding table rips (which I understand after watching the many videos from Steve Rowe and others). I’ve used my band saws in past but prefer a more finished edge. Looks like I may also keep my PM66.

I wouldn't keep the cabinet saw unless you have a deep emotional attachment to it.

Rip using the fence in the correct position ( ending no further than the arbour of the blade, I end the fence at the front gullet of the blade).

You'll find it works fine.................Regards, Rod.

[David Kumm]

I've got about 10 table saws, most are sliders of different lengths. I love my sliders but there are certain rips that are just not as easy on a slider as on a short stroke or cabinet saw. I always have two or three saws set up ( I have the room ). Sure, you can do anything on any machine, but not always efficiently. Rips longer than the sliding table or even some short rips are just easier with no long table sitting in front of the saw. If I'm doing ply work on a saw and need a quick rip, long or short, I'm not going to take off the crosscut fence or add the Fritz and Franz jig for a 5 second cut. If you have the room, keep the PM. You are used to it and its quirks and it can add efficiency. I know I have limited time and the idea of doing something the slow way makes me more prone to make up the time and do something stupid. Not everyone works that way but I tend to. Dave

[Jon Snider]

Thanks to all for advice. I’ve ripped several thousand feet on my PM without issue, but last fall while cutting some 1/4” Meranti hydrotex marine plywood for deck hatches had a piece kickback and hit me. Completely my fault and I’ve learned something the hard way. Thought at first i had broken my wrist, but just a laceration and lots of swelling. Anyway, this was the start of my looking into sliders. Only after some research have I learned there’s lots more to them than just perhaps more safety.

[Jim Becker]

You definitely have to adjust technique for some things that you may have done differently on the cabinet saw. That's part of the process...adapting...and it does become pretty automatic over time. It's the "special cases" that provide any gotchas with any tool.

[Mike King]

IMHO, the slider is a big upgrade to a cabinet saw. Using it in the same manner as a cabinet saw is not going to get you much of an improvement. So, either think about a feeder for the gunwales, or use a bandsaw. I get awfully good results with a 1" Woodmaster CT -- maybe better than what you'd get with a rip on a cabinet saw.

Mike