Pneumatic Tools

[John Hart]

Hi All! A couple of weeks ago, my neighbor asked me if I wanted his old compressor that he had laying around. I jumped at the opportunity since I didn't have one and always wanted one...you know.;) Anyway...It's a circa 1970's 1980's Craftsman, Oil-type, 17 Gallon, 100 psi compressor. Works great and I use it mainly to clean things...But I'd like to get some pneumatic tools now. The family would like me to mark up a catalog of stuff I want for Christmas so I was wondering....What would be your first choice of woodworking tools to have in this situation? I really should only pick a couple so I'd like to make good solid, get lots of use, type decisions. My first thought was a screwdriver....Any thoughts?? Thanks!

[Mark Singer]

John,
Pneumatic tools are great....the compressor does cycle and the noise is bad though. Be carefull on the CFM required... There are lots of sanders that need a lot of air...I will post some pics of my die grinders and mini sander...of course nail guns pinners etc..

Below I have a variety of burrs, ball mills and other grinding ends in various textures...

The sander is a 2" Grex as is the die grinder...they each need about 2 cfm. The sander takes a variety of grits.

Maloof, Victor DiNovi, and david Marks use die grinders for furneture making.... It is great for chair and free form work.

Proper Use of spokeshaves..drawknives and rasps, rifflers are still essential.
I really feel these pneumatic tools are a big help and very reasonable

[Bob Noles]

John,

The first and foremost tool in my shop is the brad nailer. Could not live without it in the "flat world" :p

[Tyler Howell]

Rotary tools/ most sprayers need a lot of CMF. You haven't given those specs. I suspect with the size tank and discription it will only keep up with the before mention for short bursts of use. Nail guns, staplers brad nailers should work great.

[Jim W. White]

Once you've used a pnuematic brad nailer to put something together while the glue dries or place some hardwood facing on a plywood project; you will KICK yourself for not having one sooner.

1.) 18 ga. brad nailer (in general the most used size)
2.) 15 ga finish nailer (needed for 2x2 construction or putting up molding)
3.) 23 ga. pinner (outstanding at putting small trim on peices with NO apparent entry hole worth even filling)

Most used, however, (day-in and day-out) would be the simple blow gun and the tire servicing head.

... Jim in Idaho

[Jim Dunn]

I lucked out when I bought my compressor it came with an 18 ga. brad nailer. Use it like Norm, glue and brad nail to stick it in place. Making small jigs and fixtures a snap and eliminates the need for that 3rd. hand(make that SWMBO).

Jim

[Mark Singer]

Besides the die grinder and sander, I have a pin nailer, stapler , and brad nailer ...Porter cable

[JayStPeter]

For woodworking, the brad nailer is my most used.

But, my most used tools overall are an impact wrench and air ratchet. My favorite air tools!

I just got a spray gun as well.

Jay

[Mark Singer]

I am a little surprised to see so few that use die grinders...it is about $25 and really handy...Here is some nice pneumatic options watch the cfm


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[tod evans]

john, in my shop i run everything i can off of air. given the size of your compressor i would suggest you stick with tools that use air intermittently. as you thought a screwdriver, and as others have suggested nail guns, even a small hvlp conversion gun is doable, but any tool that runs continuously such as sanders and die grinders are most likely not an option right now. i have had very good luck with tools from the cooper tool group, some of the brands cooper makes are dotco,cleco,buckeye and master power. sioux tools also makes high quality air tools. dynabrade is the most popular sander on the market then there`s aro, ingersol rand`s good stuff........tons of choices??????now for nail guns, i use senco for everything except my framer and it`s a paslode. i`d find a tool service center close by and buy the guns they service that way you won`t be down waiting on parts. moisture is a major issue i haven`t seen addressed yet?? you must remove the moisture from your air source before it gets to your tools or they will be short lived. i`ve gotta run but will check back later to see if i can be of assistance? tod

[tod evans]

john, here are a few of the ones i use regularly, tod





27378

[Jim W. White]

Mark,

Where do you buy your Grex tools from? I looked at them when I was pricing out pinners but gave up after i couldn't find anywhere online that stocked them. I think I'd like to pick up one of those die grinders. I have a bunch of he grinder heads that I got from an uncle who passed away who was a machinist.

Thanks,

Jim

[Mark Singer]

I got the die grinder and the 2" sander at the last WW show...I have an older one that takes more cfm... I would contact Grex and either they will sell direct or give you a dealer...I really like both of those and they take about 2 cfm

[Tom Andersen]

Hope that I'm not stealing the thread. Anyway, I have a compressor too and it's very useful. However, I have a problem in the winter, because I don't want to have it inside the workshop due to the noise and vibrations, and it can't be outside because it may freeze. Also, it's not easy to build an insulated box around it with a heater because then it can't get rid of the heat when it's working hard. Any solutions to that problem?

Regards
Tom

[Jim Becker]

I was just looking at the Grex pneumatic angle sander (that Mark mentions) today at a show as a possible future replacement for the Souix angle drill I use for sanding at the lathe. Nice construction and only about $70. The noise is a bit annoying, however...I'd definitely need to wear hearing protection at a time I currently don't have to.

I already have a small die grinder that I use for "carving" turnings, etc. It takes 1/8" shank cutters and is quite useful. Whines a bit, but again, I run it at various speeds, depending on the cutter and put on hearing protection when required.

One point, John...many pneumatic tools (especially sanders) require a lot more air than most "reasonably affordable" compressors can handle. Check the specs for SCFM requirements before you buy anything. Your compressor must be able to deliver at least that amount of air at a given pressure for the tool to work properly. (In the case of the angle sander I mention above, the full-bore speed is way too fast for hook and loop sanding and I'd run it at greatly reduced pressure to slow it down...a lot)

[Lee DeRaud]

One point, John...many pneumatic tools (especially sanders) require a lot more air than most "reasonably affordable" compressors can handle. Check the specs for SCFM requirements before you buy anything. Your compressor must be able to deliver at least that amount of air at a given pressure for the tool to work properly.What's annoying is that some (most?) of the manufacturers' web sites don't list that parameter: just checked PC and Campbell-Hausfeld. Grex does, but those numbers look low (like about half) compared to some I've seen in the past. (Of course, what the Grex site doesn't list is prices, and the one online Grex dealer I found only has the nailers, not the other air tools.)

[John Hart]

What a great bunch of ideas guys! Thank you. My flow rate is 5.8 CFM @ 90 psi. and 6.9 @ 40 psi. I don't know if that's enough to run a sander...but y'all have given me a lot to look at. I'll have to give this a bit of thinkin' time. I really want something I can sand with though. The nailer is probably a must, considering how much I'd use it.

This is cool!:)

[Vaughn McMillan]

john, here are a few of the ones i use regularly, tod

27378
Tod, I've been looking for one of them pneumatic P-C routers. Looks like an awful skinny air hose attached to it, though. ;)

- Vaughn

[Chris Barton]

Hi JOhn,

My guess is that you have the same compressor as me. It is made by Campbell-Haufsted. It is a good compressor for nailers and light spray finishing, sanding and air wrench and airhammer use. It is not a great compressor that serves a tool that needs lots of air through put. Serving high demand machines it will run out of umph soon. I have been very happy with mine over 25+ years. Best of luck!

chris

[John Hart]

Hi JOhn,

My guess is that you have the same compressor as me. It is made by Campbell-Haufsted.

Yup....That's the model all right. That's very encouraging. I got some great news too. My neighbor just gave me a brad nailer that he has never used....brand new in the box. Its a Craftsman...don't know how good it'll be, but I'll give it at try. One down! As far as my gift selection....I think I'm going to start my collection with the 2" angle sander and a screwdriver. For me, I think I'd use them the most.....and I'm going with Grex because of your recommendations. I thought about the grinder but I have an electric one that serves me pretty well. It also looks like my airflow is plenty sufficient to drive the sander too.

Thanks to you all for your great input!!! I think you put me on the right track and I'm sure this is just the beginning to a large collection. Thanks again!!

[Mark Singer]

John,
The drills don't have much torque

[John Hart]

John,
The drills don't have much torque

Does that go for the screwdrivers as well? Most of the time when I'm using a power screwdriver, I need lots of torque. Dont want to waste the money on something I won't use.

[tod evans]

john, some of the drivers i mentioned earlier will break your wrist, same goes for drills. as a general rule when dealing with air tools(and electric) the higher the rpm the lower the torque. i think if you try a driver that spins around 1800 rpm you`ll find you`re able to snap #8 screws with no trouble. when buying air tools stay away from those targeted at woodworkers they are underbuilt and overpriced. just about every industry on the planet uses air and the quality and pricing reflects that.woodworking is a niche market mainly targeted at the homeowner/hobbiest ,for example a burr for a die grinder sold through a ww catalogue is 40 bucks, at the local supply house the same burr for metal work is 15 bucks and usually of higher quality. for nail guns look to industry again the stuff marketed to woodworkers is generally not the same quality as what the industry uses. talk to a few of the local trim crews and cabinet builders and see what guns they shoot. it`s your money spend it wisely...02 tod

[Mark Singer]

What Tod says makes sense...just watch the cfm....the Grex sander and die grinder use only 2 cfm....other maufacturers use more....I don't use air drills...I don't like the hose....You need to use a little oil with the tools.

[John Hart]

Hmmmm...Good tips! I like the idea of finding better tools at lower prices!:) A lot of the things I use for turning, I find at auto parts stores....And what you say really makes sense because the same items cost 3 or 4 times more at a woodworking store. Time to look for a good outlet now! ;)

[tod evans]

john, if you want to test drive a driver i`ll be happy to loan you one for a week or two. tod

[John Hart]

john, if you want to test drive a driver i`ll be happy to loan you one for a week or two. tod

Really? Wow! That would be wonderful! It would take me past Christmas but then I could make it my first purchase after the kids get the other ones! This is cool!!:D I'll PM you.

[tod evans]

here`s a cool sanding set made for the metal working community that mounts in a die grinder.
27410

[John Hart]

Well...it's been a couple of weeks since I asked the question. In that time, I decided that my family shouldn't go out and buy me any air tools until I know what I'm talking about. Tod Evans was kind enough to ship me a Buckeye Model 35FC 304 Driver, made by Cooper tools to try out since I have so little experience. Basically, he handed me an education. Thanks Tod very much!
28504

My general feeling is that I've never experienced a driver with so much power. It has a nice balanced feel to it, very solidly constructed (Tod dared me to break it), it isn't loud, and even the quick release chuck is the smoothest I've ever used on anything. A great piece of equipment!! I got a bunch of 4" screws that I was using to put up a ceiling in the basement and drove them into the floor joists with no pre-drill...Unbelieveable! So I spent one day last week laying in some studs in a room I'm remodeling. What a pleasure that was. I highly recommend this piece of equipment...even though I'm not very experienced at this sort of thing.

So...can I keep it? huh? can I? Just kidding Tod...It's on its way home.;)

[tod evans]

john, thanks for the review! when we spoke on the phone i asked john to give his unbiased review of this driver for the simple reason that lots of folks who first try air tools try the dimestore variety and are not happy with the results. all major industry in the usa uses air for the simple reason that the tools are usually smaller than the electric counterparts and will outlive them 10-1 with only a few drops of oil. a genuine rubber "whip" attached to an air tool is usually as flexable and accommodating as a powertools cord. please don`t anybody discount air untill you`ve tried the good stuff........02 tod

[Jim Davenport]

I'm new here, and hope I don't upset anyone. But I think that air tools in a small shop are very inefficient.
If you think about it, using a small drill, grinder or sander, you're running a 2 to 5 horsepower motor for the compressor.. If you used an equivalent electric tool, you're only using a fractional horsepower motor. over a period of time that's a substantial savings in electricity.
Of course they're times when an air tool is a better fit for the job, but I think most of us are better served by using electric tools for most of our work.

[tod evans]

jim, if you are a hobbiest i agree 100% but if you`re running even a small production shop you afford yourself the benefits of much higher quality tools. for instance a simple 5" random orbit sander largly available in any number of colors pulling around 5 amps for way less than 100 bucks. they do the job sure but they are far slower than their pneumatic counterparts, far more unwieldly and if a fellow actually works them they are short lived. in my shop i chose to go air for two reasons;#1 the quality of tools available. and#2 the life of those tools.
it`s been my experience that i kill tools that run on electricity unless they are of true industrial quality.so for me as well as a large percentage of small shops air is a very cost effective method of getting the job done.....02 tod

[John Hart]

I'd like to throw another facet in here...just for the fun of throwing it in the mix. I am a hobbyist and my hobby of choice is Turning. The unexpected acquisition of a compressor was perfect for my needs for shavings removal and some general cleanup while turning. I thought that it would be perfect to add a couple of tools to that effort since the air would be available at the lathe. Also, my current house and the one I am about to buy in the spring both require remodeling of various levels so I see an application there. The other application is a brad nailer for some of my flatwork and I've had bad luck with electric nailers. I know there are arguments on both sides, but I sure love the idea of the power and also the life and dependability of the tools.

Opposing views are very welcome! :)

[Jim Davenport]

jim, if you are a hobbiest i agree 100% but if you`re running even a small production shop you afford yourself the benefits of much higher quality tools. for instance a simple 5" random orbit sander largly available in any number of colors pulling around 5 amps for way less than 100 bucks. they do the job sure but they are far slower than their pneumatic counterparts, far more unwieldly and if a fellow actually works them they are short lived. in my shop i chose to go air for two reasons;#1 the quality of tools available. and#2 the life of those tools.
it`s been my experience that i kill tools that run on electricity unless they are of true industrial quality.so for me as well as a large percentage of small shops air is a very cost effective method of getting the job done.....02 tod
Tod; Your right about a small comercial shop, I guess I should phrased that to say a small home shop. I used to have a business doing maintenance for water and wastewater utilities, and used various air tools extensively. But I mess around with wood working strickly as a hobby. In my case, as I suspect most home hobbiest, small electric tools are the best way to go. I have a pair of Bosch DA sanders, and a Rockwell orbital sander that have given me good service for years. I do use my compressor for pneumatic brad, and finish nailers, and Santa brought me an "HVLP" spray gun for Christmas.
I have a Mist lubricator set up on my compressor. For some work I will use an pneumatic drill, but I worry about oil in the exhaust contaminating my work. I do have a regulated, nonlubricated tap for spraying etc. And I have air hoses marked for lubricated, and nonlubricated air use.
You-all that use pneumatic tools, how do you keep the exhaust from contaminating the wood?

[tod evans]

jim, really the only time i worry about an oil mist from tools is during the final sanding. i solved that problem by getting a dotco oilless r/o. before i had it i ran the exhaust into a 6ft piece of clear tubing taped to the airline. the dynabrade,sioux and masterpower sanders all have 1/4 npt screw in mufflers so attaching a remote exhaust is easy. the vein technology used now by most sander manufacturers is oilless to avoid this hassel. in fact most mfgrs. are now offering dust extraction if you want it? the only line i keep an oiler on is in the compressor house where i do metal work, the screwguns,diegrinders,sanders,jigsaw and angle grinder used in the woodshop all get oiled at the tool and i vent the mist before getting near wood, only takes 2-3 seconds.if an old tool has been over-oiled just wrap a shop towel around the exhaust.....02 tod

[Jim Davenport]

Thanks Tod. I learned the hard way about small ammounts of oil contaminating a finnish!:eek:
But then again over the years I seem to learn a lot of things the hardway.

Tod, I don't mean to "Hi-jack" this thread, but I saw in your profile that you were interested in Mastiff's. Here's a picture of my "Grand puppy" Judge (AKA Dogzilla) in the new dog bed that Santa brought him. Of course he's not spoiled or anything! Two things he lives for is Pig ears, and walks.

[tod evans]

jim, my guys come to the shop with me every day and lounge in the sawdust:)

[Greg Just]

Mark:

I received a Grex AOS368 random orbital sander as a birthday present last week and was wondering about tightening the sanding pad. Like most instructions, they stink. Do you just hold the pad and use the little wrench they give you to tighten the nut?

[chris yount]

You may want to look at a 1/4" crown stapler that wiil shot 1 1/4" long staples .Handy for everything from uphostelry to securing plywood.The staple's hold is much stronger than brads especially on ply.

[Art Kelly]

Hate to see a good thread languish for over a year, so I'll add a horror story. I do wood turning and some metal work and have a shop-air line with two non-oiled and one oiled QD outlets. The oiled outlet is at the end of the line. I even fitted it with an odd QD to make it foolproof.

Recently I was using an air-powered cutoff wheel and left the line conected to the oiler when done.

At the end of the day I always disconnect the airline at the tank, but with the hose on the oiler, when I did this the air bleeding back out of the oiled line and through the oiler blew a bunch of oil back into the line. So the system was foolproof, but not idiot-proof.

I learned of this the next day when I blew some sanding dust off a walnut bowl.:eek:

Word to those with a setup like this: Put a check valve ahead of the oiler or always remember to disconnect the oiler output before disonnecting the line at the tank. A check valve would be the best.

As a workaround for now, I've put a $3 filter from HF at the input to the blower nozzle. (Had to disassemble the blower and rinse it out with acetone--in woodworking a little oil goes a long way, it seems.)

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want...

Art