Dado and Table Saw

[Brent Malwicks]

Hello, I'm asking this for a friend:

I’m looking for a new table saw and I'm between the DeWalt DW745 and Skil 3410-02. I like everything about the DeWalt other than the fact that it can’t use a Dado set. The Skil has that trump card. Otherwise though, the DeWalt appears to be better designed, have more consistent quality, and have a much better fence.

I’m a beginner but the ability to run a Dado for joinery purposes seems important. Do you think the Skil would actually have enough power to do this effectively? What would you choose? Is it preferable to just get the DeWalt and simply use a router table where I would have used the Dado stack?

Thanks!

[Lee Schierer]

Have you considered buying a used table saw from Craig's list? For about the same price you can usually find a Craftsman table saw with a cast iron top.

I don't know where you are located, but this would be a decent saw. 'https://buffalo.craigslist.org/tls/d/hamburg-craftsman-table-saw/6896416048.html

[Bill Dufour]

What country is your friend located. A better location will give us better ideas. Searching Craigslst for a used saw work well in the USA. there is something similar in New Zealand. other countries IDNK.

[Brent Malwicks]

Have you considered buying a used table saw from Craig's list? For about the same price you can usually find a Craftsman table saw with a cast iron top.

I don't know where you are located, but this would be a decent saw. 'https://buffalo.craigslist.org/tls/d/hamburg-craftsman-table-saw/6896416048.html


What country is your friend located. A better location will give us better ideas. Searching Craigslst for a used saw work well in the USA. there is something similar in New Zealand. other countries IDNK.

The USA. I'll check out Craigslist, thanks. But assuming that he doesn't want to go this route, what are the answers to the questions about the Dado?

[Lisa Starr]

I wouldn't be happy with a TS that couldn't run a dado stack. On the other hand, life with a miserable fence would also make me unhappy. IMO, a used Craftsman would be a much better use of funds. Yes, there are lots of situations the you could perform the dado operations with a router (in a table), but in the long run, you'll be happier with the results from a dado stack.

[David Kumm]

I've run a 6" dado on my Bosch but benchtop saws are not made to handle the weight or stress of dado work. Once in a while is OK, but if you plan to dado often, look for a heavier saw that has the support of at least a steel base, cast iron top, and decent trunions. My Bosch doesn't have a blade height lock down and the dado will change in height without a modification. The tip speed and cut angle of a 6" are also less than ideal in comparison to a larger blade so that is another negative for regular use. Dave

[Charles Lent]

There are other ways to cut dados, but a more important need in a table saw is to have accurately sized 3/4" X 3/8" miter slots and a good fence that locks square and parallel to the blade every time. Purchased table saw jigs almost always depend on accurate miter slots of this standard size, and a saw without a good fence is unsafe and near useless. Before buying a table saw, take the time to accurately measure the miter slots. Few low priced table saws have miter slots that are accurate, making it near impossible to use these jigs. A router and a guide will cut dados very easily. A shop made jig will allow for perfect fit dados of any size, even non-standard size woods.

Since you rarely, if ever, need to make dados deeper than 3/4" it's best to use smaller diameter dado blades on table saws with less than 2 hp motors. Consider 6" or 8" diameter dado blade sets for these under powered saws and it will do a better job for you.

Charley

[Frank Pratt]

The only rationale that I can see for getting a job site saw is if you need to move it to & from job sites regularly. There are just too many compromises. There are so many better options, new and used.

[Jim Becker]

The only rationale that I can see for getting a job site saw is if you need to move it to & from job sites regularly. There are just too many compromises. There are so many better options, new and used.
I agree. Jobsite saws are not the best choice even for beginning woodworking. They "generally" lack in accuracy/repeatability, are not powerful despite "horsepower" claims, scream like banshees because of the universal motors, have small tables and use non-standard miter slots and are usually pretty light-weight. A good pre-owned contractors' style saw is a great alternative to a new jobsite saw.

[Rick Potter]

I considered getting a jobsite saw to use for 'small work', but rejected them all because of above mentioned reasons. What I keep coming back to is early '50's Craftsman 8" saws on CL. They made several that are about the size of jobsite saws, but steel case with cast iron tops. I have seen several that looked to be very nice, and were only $100 or so.

Caveat: These sometimes had only a 1/2" arbor, and would need a bushing....available at HF.

[Charles Lent]

If you find an older saw and are considering it seriously, measure the diameter of the arbor shaft. In the 50's, many saws were made with 1/2" diameter arbors, and you don't want one of them, because 5/8" diameter is now the standard and you will have a tough time locating blades for 1/2" arbors. There were bushings available to adapt 5/8 blades for use on 1/2" saws, but they were a pain to keep in place. You also need a good fence on a saw, one that will stay parallel with the blade and lock in place and move easily. The older Delta Contractor saws of the 34-440 to 34-450 model series were very good starter saws and Delta made a lot of them. There isn't much difference between each of these models, so any one of them in good condition will be worth getting. All had 5/8" arbors, could take full dado stacks, had cast iron tables with sheet metal wings, and a specially designed dual voltage motor that produced 1.5 hp on 120 volts and a full 2 hp on 240 volts. The miter slots were accurate 3/4 X 3/8" too. The fences on most of these saws had round tube rails and weren't the greatest fence, but were fine for most work. A better fence that came on some of the later models was the Delta Unifence. If you find one of these fences, it is likely worth more used now than the rest of the saw, so buy the saw and at least save the fence when you get a better saw to put it on.

I found a Delta 34-444 Contractor Saw for my son, cleaned it up and aligned it, and it is every bit as accurate as my Unisaw. About the only short coming of the Contractor grade saws is their total lack of saw dust control due to the open bottom and back of the cabinet. They all come with built-in legs and an after market fabric bag is available that fastens to the legs to catch what saw dust falls down from the blade, but probably about 20% will not go into the bag due to the open design of these saws. One of these Delta contractors can quite easily be found in good running condition for $150-250. One in near new condition would likely be worth a bit more. Surface rust on the table is easy to clean off, but avoid saws that have been left out in the Weather and have heavy rust pitting, unless it's free, or nearly free.

Charley

[Matt Day]

If your friend buys one of those new saws and he really gets into the hobby he’ll likely be looking to buy a different saw in 6 months.

[Jim Becker]

If your friend buys one of those new saws and he really gets into the hobby he’ll likely be looking to buy a different saw in 6 months.
Or much sooner... ;) DAMHIKT!!

[Robert Engel]

Brent,

I'm sorry but neither of those saws will take you very far in your woodworking endeavor. Their issues are pretty major: accuracy, fence quality, power.

They are really meant to be tossed in the back of a contractors pickup, not woodworking.

I understand the budget issues when even an entry level saw will set you back almost $1K.

I suggest you look for a used saw. A cabinet saw is the most desirable, but many contractor type saws can fill the bill.

My rule of thumb for a beginner is you want a saw with an induction motor at least 1 1/2HP. IOW if you dont' see a motor and a belt don't buy it.

Good luck!!

[Frank Pratt]

I just shake my head & laugh at all the youtubes out there that show how the guy has built this huge, elaborate work center with a crappy little job site saw at it's core. Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I do not know either saw, but, my opinion is that if all else is equal, I would take the ability to use a Dado set is important to me. OK, so maybe you can't do it on one pass, but you can nibble a bit at a time. Then again, if the other saw is clearly superior in some other way (like a better fence), you can always use a 1/8" blade with appropriate cutting edges (so they cut square) and nibble a bit out at a time. I have done this for things such as drawer bottoms where I have it cleared in a few passes and that can take less time than setting up my Dado set.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Brent - I agree with everything above. The jobsite saws mentioned are not up to the task of accurate hobbyist woodworking. Using one of these will be very frustrating.

When I started out I found a used contractor saw with a cast iron top. It was serviceable and cost me $175. The fence was poor but with some tweaks I made it usable. The extra surface area of the top and the extra weight are key in getting good results.

Over the years I've used my dado stack frequently and wouldn't want to be without it. That said, there are always creative alternatives in woodworking - Nibbling / Routing, etc.

[Brent Malwicks]

A lot of good insight, thanks everyone :)

[glenn bradley]

A lot of good insight, thanks everyone :)

It sometimes seems like everyone has something other than an answer to your question to offer. Please understand that it is difficult to give a black and white answer to a prickly question like running a dado on a real lightweight machine. It gives most of us the willys. I hope the info was at least somewhat helpful to your friend.

[Dick Mahany]

All of the advice offered so far does have merit however I need to offer another perspective. I downsized a few years back and had to part with my trusty Unisaw w/ 52" extension and full outfeed table because I simply don't have room for it. I would never had considered a portable saw until I tired of having only a track saw. After several tablesaw-less years, I broke down and purchased a DeWalt 7491RS portable jobsite saw. It has been an absolute joy to use even for precision woodworking and cabinetry. It certainly will never be as capable as a dedicated cabinet saw, but it can do more than many people give it credit for, and I routinely run full kerf Woodworker blades without problems (although I do not typically work with stock thicker than 5/4 hardwoods).


The 7491RS model can spin a full dado stack and I have routinely had excellent results with an 8" Forrest Dado King. The fence is rock solid and can be calibrated precisely for cut distance, albeit on the small side, but that can be overcome. There are adjustments to align the blade parallel to the miter slot, and to align the fence parallel as well. The table is small, but an outfeed table and a small infeed table can overcome a good portion of these shortcomings depending on one's needs. The dust collection is excellent and has both below and above the table capabilities. A true riving knife and separate blade guard/splitter with removable anti kick back pawls can all be changed quickly without tools. True, it is a screamer due to the universal motor, but I had to make compromises or have no table saw at all. Best of all, it folds quickly and easily and rolls into the small area that I have to store it in, yet the stand with the splayed legs makes this a very stable saw when set up.

I added an outfeed table, an infeed table, and an auxiliary tall and long fence that have greatly improved the utility of this saw and they all are quickly attached or removed and store separately in my small space. For small precision work, a simple crosscut sled has been perfectly adequate. The biggest negatives to me are the non magnetic table and the lack of a blade tilt lock, but they're more of an annoyance that I've learned to live with. Also, the tiny stock miter gauge is near useless, but an Incra miter gauge resolved that issue.

I do agree, that if one has ample space and budget, a dedicated contractor or cabinet saw is far preferred, but the right model jobsite saw can be set up and tuned to provide accurate results. I can only speak from my experience and simply hope to offer new users another perspective when considering whether a portable saw has any place in their shop.

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[Rich Engelhardt]

Lower end job site saws tend to have non-standard miter slots - often with those annoying little ""nibs"" that block the channels & prevent using a sled.
Highly annoying - way more so than not taking a stacked dado.
They are also real "tippy" because of their light weight. Only attempt cutting a full sheet of plywood at your own risk & under no circumstances try it without someone else around to call 911 or pull the plug on the saw when (not if) it gets away from you mid cut.
My experience was pretty harrowing. The sheet skewed sideways & caused the blade to bind. Sadly, because it was a 15 amp motor, it had enough power to yank itself sideways & start to tip over.

Trying to wrestle an angry saw isn't my idea of fun....

The rotten fence on it made any sort of repeatable accuracy a pure matter of luck.

I paid around $200 for it - sold it for $100 and invested anther few hundred in a Ridgid TS 3660.
I also sprang for a Festool TS55 Eq track saw - mainly for sheet goods, but, it also solves many other issues that otherwise would have you scratching your head wondering how to do it - - and/or asking he for advice (and being told by people a track saw is the best tool for the job).