Lee Valley Veritas PM-V11 chisels

[C. J. Church]

I recently purchased two chisels - 3/4" and 1/2". Yep, I sold some tools and swallowed hard because they are expensive. However, there has been such good reviews about the PM-V11 I took the plunge. The steel is supposed to be tough and relatively easy to sharpen. I sharpen with a 25 degree primary bevel and a 30 degree secondary bevel.

I am building a cabinet with white oak that involves dovetailing. While the PM-V11chisels are easy to sharpen, the steel is definitely not durable. After one light pass to remove 1/32" - 1/16" while chopping dovetails, the edge on each chisel crumbled. That's right, crumbled. I have heard heat treatment can cause a weakened edge on chisels, plane irons, etc, so I sharpened each chisel several times to remove some material. My experience after sharpening each time was the same - the edge crumbled during one light pass.

Now granted white oak is a tough and hard wood. However, that is exactly why I spent the money to buy the PM-V11 chisels.

For comparison I have used Lie Nielsen A2 chisels, Japanese chisels - both laminated steel and special Hitachi HSS (non laminated) and O1 (old Stanley 750). The laminated Japanese chisel I have is an inexpensive store brand chisel from Japan Woodworker. It is easy to sharpen and durable. The Hitachi special HSS chisels were purchased from Traditional Woodworker. I love the Hitachi HSS steel chisels - durable, easy to sharpenand reasonably priced but Traditional Woodworker is out of business and I can't find these chisels anywhere.

What has been your experience with PM-V11 chisels? I will return these chisels - they are a big disappointment and are not worth the high price or even a low price.

[Andrew Hughes]

White oak can be very nasty. My friend sent me a piece of White oak from Oregon that was extremely difficult.
I had to nibble away at it. That’s all I got good luck.
One more thing I was going to post a pic but I see your not a contributor yet. :)
Good Luck

[C. J. Church]

Well, as a matter of fact I am using Oregon white oak. The PM-V11 chisels performed worse than the other chisels I tried as described in my post

[Mel Fulks]

Some report that new chisels sometimes are soft at the sharp edge and need to wear down a little to the harder steel.

[Rob Luter]

I work almost exclusively in white oak. It's miserable stuff. I have LN A2 Chisels as well as some Irwin/Marples in HSS. White oak is an able rival. Chisels and plane irons need to be stupid sharp. They cut, but you need to keep it light and they do need honing or stropping frequently. Without a secondary bevel they tend to chip. I have one plane with a PM-V11 iron and it performs very well. If your edge is "crumbling" it suggests an unusual problem. In my experience, an email to LV about the issue will bring about a prompt resolution. Crabbing to a woodworking forum on your first post, not so much.

[C. J. Church]

Well, I did contact Lee Valley prior to posting here. I am waiting a reply. Thanks for your input.

[Rob Luter]

They'll make it right. They're a good bunch.

[Vincent Tai]

I got my set a few years back, and the three biggest chisels had similar issues (coincidentally also in white oak is when I found out). Talked to LV and three replacements were sent and return postage for the defective chisels. They hold up well chopping Purpleheart, white oak, Jarrah, etc. PMV-11 is good steel.

[Mike Henderson]

I use the LV PM-V11 chisels and my experience is quite different than yours. I also suggest you contact LV about the issue. They have always responded quickly and fairly.

Mike

[C. J. Church]

That's good to hear. thanks

[Jim Koepke]

So far my only experience with PMv-11 is a spokeshave.

At first the blade didn't seem all that much better than the blades on my other shaves. After a few trips to the sharpening bench the blade has held up remarkably well.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I've got one PMV-11 chisel and one block plane blade-I find both have excellent steel. As (I believe Mel) mentioned, you typically need to grind back a whisker and also make sure your honing angle is not too low-definitely no lower than 25 degrees, maybe closer to 30.

[Charles Guest]

I've got one PMV-11 chisel and one block plane blade-I find both have excellent steel. As (I believe Mel) mentioned, you typically need to grind back a whisker and also make sure your honing angle is not too low-definitely no lower than 25 degrees, maybe closer to 30.

Most decent steel will perform more than adequately if honed at 30*; no need to spend a whole lot of money.

[Mark Rainey]

Most decent steel will perform more than adequately if honed at 30*; no need to spend a whole lot of money.
Always glad to get input from a craftsman with over 50 years experience.

[C. J. Church]

Thought I would follow up on my OP. I received two chisels - 1/2" and 3/4" - to replace the original poor performing chisels. I followed the same method - sharpened with a 30 degree secondary bevel and chopped vertically on Oregon white oak. I made six passes with the 1/2 inch chisel, taking off 1/16" with each pass and going about 3/8" deep. I observed a single, extremely small nick in the edge, but the edge was still adequate. I blunted the edge slightly on my polishing stone (Spyderco ceramic) and resharpened. I took six more passes and could not see or feel any nicks.

The 3/4" chisel did not perform quite as well, after 3 passes in a similar fashion, I could see a few small nicks. I resharpened as described above and took a few more passes. I couldn't see or feel any nicks.

The edges on the replacement chisels definitely did not chip and crumble like the original chisels. I would say after this brief second go 'round that these chisels performed well in a difficult wood and are worth keeping.

410617410618

I'm surprised that the Lee Valley QC process let the original two chisels slip through.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m glad you got a chisel that is satisfying. They look very long aren’t they paring chisels I thought you were have trouble with a striking chisel.
So confused. :confused:

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I think that is the LV bench chisel. I don’t believe they make a paring chisel.


I’m glad you got a chisel that is satisfying. They look very long aren’t they paring chisels I thought you were have trouble with a striking chisel.
So confused. :confused:

[Andrew Hughes]

I think that is the LV bench chisel. I don’t believe they make a paring chisel.

Thanks Nicholas, I guess they just look very long from the camera angle.
Good Luck everyone :)

[C. J. Church]

Right, they are the LV bench chisels. The camera angle makes them look pretty long. They are a bit longer than the LN socket chisels.

[glenn bradley]

Well, I did contact Lee Valley prior to posting here. I am waiting a reply. Thanks for your input.

Although your experience is in the minority, Lee Valley stands behind their stuff. If you want to return them, I wouldn't expect any trouble. I won't bother talking about my good experience with PM-v11 as the only important factor here is whether you are happy with them or not.

FWIW, I had a poor first experience with a particular circular saw blade that "everyone" loves. I had it sharpened to try to resolve the performance issues but, it never performed like some more economical brands I owned. Years later I got to try the same model once again; completely different story. Can't explain it, can only report my experiences.

[Wojciech Tryc]

I have the whole set, seven of them. Used them to build several Rietveld chairs in white oak without nicks or any other problems, also I extensively used them while building my Roubo bench in hard maple. Could it be just a bad batch? I am sure that LeeValley will take care of you. I really like those chisels and I am 100% satisfied with quality.

[Warren West]

I'm surprised that the Lee Valley QC process let the original two chisels slip through.

What QC process is going to catch a bad heat treat, short of LV using them? The important thing, as you found out, is to buy good tools from a good retailer. That way you will always get what you pay for.

[Charles Guest]

30* is too high except for chisels dedicated to chopping. Edges should always fail by rolling rather than chipping. There are references in old British woodworking manuals, I'll look for them, that refer to chisels "found too hard for their intended use." High Rc values are often associated with high quality but that's not the whole story by a long shot.

[Larry Frank]

I think failure modes and guidelines in Old British woodworking manuals may be fine for older steels. It is not necessarily applicable to modern steels such as A2 and PMV-11.

[C. J. Church]

I bought some Robert Sorby chisels several years ago that had a small dimple on the back indicating a Rockwell hardness test was done. So it is possible in a production settting to check hardness as one important indicator. https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.VmCArTS_f-es55SFbhscHAEgDY&w=160&h=120&rs=1&qlt=80&dpr=3&pid=3.1 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=imgurl%3ahttp%3a%2f%2fslideplayer.com%2f1 2324512%2f73%2fimages%2f3%2fRockwell%2bHardness%2b Test.jpg&view=detailv2&iss=sbi&rtpu=%2fsearch%3fq%3drockwell+hardness+test&FORM=IEQNAI)

[Charles Guest]

I think failure modes and guidelines in Old British woodworking manuals may be fine for older steels. It is not necessarily applicable to modern steels such as A2 and PMV-11.

You can fix a rolled edge in less than a minute, not so a chipped edge.