First attempt at large glue up and I'm scared to death of it.

[Michael Costa]

This isn't glued... yet. I'm going to do it a little at a time. I'm afraid of using too much or not enough glue. I'm afraid to run out of working time. It took a little bit just to get it to this point. Whose idea was this anyway?

410018

[Phil Gaudio]

Hide glue is your friend (I use Titebond).

[Lee Schierer]

If you are gluing up that panel, I would recommend you do it it two stages. Remove those clamps and pull off just one side. Apply the glue and put that one piece back in place. Secure the whole assembly with clamps insuring everything is square and aligned. When that glue is set up, do the same thing with the remaining side.

[mreza Salav]

Do it in two stages, use glue that gives you lots of time.
Here is a glue-up on a 200lb door I did alone, in two stages, using west system epoxy.

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[Wade Lippman]

I used epoxy on my one huge glue up for the open time.

[Andrew Hughes]

That doesn’t look like a large glue at all have you thought about gluing the center section first.
Make some lite pencil marks across the pieces of alignment before you unclamp this dry glue up.
Elmers white glue would be my choice definitely not epoxy or titebond’s unreliable hide glue. Just don’t smear around and squeeze out. Pop off any beads of glue when it turns rubbery.
Good Luck

[Phil Gaudio]

... definitely not epoxy or titebond’s unreliable hide glue....


Never had a problem with Titebond Hide Glue: what makes it unreliable (assuming you buy stock that is not past the expiration date)?

[Andrew Hughes]

I tested some years ago the bottle was bought at Rockler. The test was simply gluing to pieces of wood long grain.There’s was no bond of the wood fibers it sat clamped over night. The wood was prepared by me fresh surfaces
I also never have to think about dates on my Yellow or white glues.
So thumbs down for titebond hide glue for me. Not worth the hassle if I have to keep track of It expiring.
Good luck

[mreza Salav]

Andrew, epoxy (and particular west system) is among the best glues by any test I've seen (both in terms of strength, durability, and open time; although messy to work with).
Yellow/white glues do have expire dates too (typically 1-2 years).

[Andrew Hughes]

I agree epoxy is great. I just don’t see the need unless the jointery is loose and would need gap filling. Or the glue up is complicated.
The testing I’ve done on plain old Elmer white glue has me convinced it’s a good choice.Plus a gallon is not very much money.
I encourage everyone to do their own testing and find the glue they feel confident with.
Good Luck

[David Eisenhauer]

Michael - You have it in the "dry glue" or "test glue" stage now. If there were no issues getting it to the point it is now, then you are good to go. Have everything laid out like it is in the photo, open the clamps enough to get it apart and start applying glue. Pay attention to getting a light coat of glue on the tenons (don't gob in a bunch where the tenon shoulders meet the mortised side) and add in some to the mortises. I would start with the center stile and work my way to the outer sides. I have used Titebond I or liquid hide glue both for something similar to your frame and panel gizmo and had no issues with lack of open time for either. I glue up in 100 deg temps at time and have learned to work quickly. I do tend to use liquid hide glue on M&T work to prevent hydraulic lock up issues occurring during final pullup with the clamps. This is an area that I do use small brushes for the glue as opposed to fingers. Any of the glues mentioned above will work, your call, but for me, epoxy would be overkill. Have a square or corner measuring sticks ready to hand to check for a square glue up, rags to wipe mess up and wait for any squeezeout to get rubbery before lifting it off with something thin, sharp edged and flexible before it dries hard. I did not notice if you used pads on the clmap faces in the photo above.

[Michael Costa]

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Here is one side in all its glory. I only had a problem with squeeze out near the bottom but between the straw trick and light lifting at up with a flat carving chisel I managed to remove it.

I did glue up the middle first. However, I forgot to put glue where the panels connected to the center stile. A bead of CA on the inside fixed the slight rattle.

This was nerve racking to say the least because I'm using cherry and its not cheap. I thought about making it pine first and a total test run but didnt think I would make another go at it.

I really feel using a Kreg jig on the inside where no one would see would have been better. I dont know. And of course the bar clamps left black marks on the wood.

Ps.... I'm following a set of plans from so woodsmith (I think) magazine.

[David Eisenhauer]

Looks good Michael and you don't need no stinkin Kreg jig:)

[Dennis Yamamoto]

For complicated glue ups I always use West System Epoxy like some of the other folks. If you want longer open times, use their slow hardener, #206. Here's their URL for selecting hardeners:
https://www.westsystem.com/hardener-selection-guide/

The other thing about epoxy is that it won't swell your mortise and tenons making it even harder to close the joints. Yes, maybe my joints are too tight, but I can't seem to make them perfect for glue up every time.

Be careful about mixing up too much at one time. It can heat up and you will have a different problem. I use their mini pumps, and mix up 2 or 3 pumps at a time. 3 pumps worth will go a long ways.

I would never consider using a yellow or white glue for your kind of glue up. Epoxy is much more expensive, but how much time did it take you to build that door?

By the way, I use all kind of glues including epoxy, white, yellow, and CA. It depends on what I'm doing and how stressed out I want to be in retirement!

Dennis

[Dennis Yamamoto]

Oh here's the door the I used West System Epoxy for the glue up. Even though I practiced the glue up, it took me over 30 minutes to close all joints, and make sure the door was square. The Redwood panels are glued in because they are thick veneers glued on to a MDO core. Also the door is heavy being 84" x 38" x 2".

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[roger wiegand]

I don't understand how the "glue the center section first" suggestions are going to work. How do you keep things aligned and square while gluing an H shaped object (if I am correct about what's being proposed?) Seems like the side rails are what keeps everything square. There are only the six joints to apply glue to, you just need to male sure you don't get any into the grooves for the panels so they can float free in the frame.

Just practice your glue up dry a couple of times, paying attention to where you put down the clamping blocks so you actually have them in place when you need them. I think you'll find it not so hard in practice. Just work out a sequence that works for you.

[Alan Schwabacher]

The way to do a partial glueup and keep everything square is to assemble the whole thing, but to put glue in only some of the joints. That allows you to keep and check square. Make sure the unglued joints can be disassembled while the glued ones remain closed, of course. With more practice, this job can be done in one shot.

You mentioned that you glued in the sides of the panels too. I hope that means they are plywood or some other dimensionally stable sheet good. Wood panels are typically left unglued because that allows expansion and contraction in width within a frame that does not change in size. Rattling is avoided in several ways: rubber balls in the groove, glue or brad in center of top and bottom of panel, or just a tight fit in the groove. Depending on size and other factors, if you glue the edges of a solid wood panel int a frame, expansion and contraction can sometimes cause damage eventually.

[Anuj Prateek]

I would suggest using epoxy. I prefer epoxy if I am scared that I would not be able to finish glue up in time.

I use System 3 T88 epoxy and it gives ~40 minutes of work time in Seattle weather. If things go bad, you can take the joint apart and fix it even after 1-2 hours of glue up.

Downside:

- I find it messy compared to Titebond. Fingers stay sticky even after washing.
- Takes longer (~24 hours) to dry.
- Pricy

[Alan Lightstone]

I use West System epoxy also for that type of glue-up. Definitely use the slow hardener, but be prepared for it to take 24 hours to really cure. But strong as an ox at that point.

[Curt Harms]

I agree epoxy is great. I just don’t see the need unless the jointery is loose and would need gap filling. Or the glue up is complicated.
The testing I’ve done on plain old Elmer white glue has me convinced it’s a good choice.Plus a gallon is not very much money.
I encourage everyone to do their own testing and find the glue they feel confident with.
Good Luck
That could apply to hide glue too. The stuff does age and it depends on how it's stored. I read once - don't know how true it is - squeeze a little hide glue onto a finger and squeeze then separate your fingers. If it forms a string it should be good, at least that's what I remember. It doesn't seem like a bad idea to glue up some scrap and test to failure if there's a question a glue's condition.

[Andrew Hughes]

If I have to use epoxy it’s a very difficult glue up. I have a small digital scale to measure up.
Always keep the leftover to see if it hardens correctly.
Its good for practice to mock up new designs and test test test. Before we cut expense wood.
Most of the time I use Elmer’s carpenters white glue for mock ups.
I find it’s very reliable.

Good Luck everyone :)