sprinkler systems

[Günter VögelBerg]

Can I please get some advice on what I need to know to get started with a sprinkler system? I have never installed sprinklers or owned a home that had in-ground sprinklers. Where I live yards are small and people don't usually have them, but I am building a new deck and installing new backyard sod, so I figured there is no time like present to do it. My yard consists of one piece of grass about 15 feet by 30 feet and another about 20 feet by 15 feet. There is a large tree in the middle that I will have to work around. I would also like to add a hose bib on the other side of the fence against the alley where I have some vegetable boxes and fruit trees. I'd like to have this part of the sprinkler system but not on a timer just so I can easily blow the water out in winter. My point is that it is not going to need to be a big system. I am going to hire someone to do the trenching and most if not all of the in-ground work because that is work for someone younger and fitter than I am, but I'd like to try to save some money if I an by doing some of the plumbing work myself. I can solder pipes and generally do basic homeowner plumbing.

At this point is that I want to understand my options for connecting to my household plumbing. I know that coming off the meter before going into the house is ideal, but that is going to be impossible. There are just too many obstacles. My house is over a hundred years old so the plumbing is an amalgam of various types from different generations of upgrades, but is generally in good repair and mostly from the past few decades. I would like to mount the box in a spot on the side of the house where I can easily tie into a run of galvanized that is a pretty straight shot from the service entrance. I will have to drill through about ten inches of masonry to get the water outside. If I go this route can I just put a T in the galvanized, a shutoff valve, then go through the brick and install the anti-siphon valve directly on the outside of the house before feeding it into the box where the controllers will be?

[Frank Pratt]

There's a lot to cover here, so the best place to start would be Google & youtube. The sprinkler equipment manufacturers have some very good resources to help you out with planning construction of the system. You can get the parts at a home center, but I found that shopping online makes it a lot easier to get exactly what you want and which brand you prefer.

I think it's well worth the effort to install a sprinkler system. It will get the water just where you want it, when it's needed, and you'll end up using less water. Not to mention the convenience :)

[Bill Dufour]

Does it freeze in your part of the world? In the USA most sprinkler stuff is glued pvc pipes. Does your water have much debris in it? like sand that can clog nozzles.
Bill D

[Günter VögelBerg]

My part of the world is USA (by transplant). I am in the mountain west and it definitely freezes, so I need to be able to blow out lines. It is city water and it generally very high quality. I've never had problems with debris of any kind.

[Frank Pratt]

I recommend using the black polyethylene pipe rather than PVC for areas where it freezes. It has better freeze resistance than PVC.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I recommend using the black polyethylene pipe rather than PVC for areas where it freezes. It has better freeze resistance than PVC.

OK thanks. So do I connect the anti-siphon to the galvanized coming out of the house and then connect the plastic pipe to the anti-siphon, or is the plastic just downstream of the valves?

[Ole Anderson]

Around here, almost all residential underground irrigation is black polyethylene. In 45 years, the only problems I have had with pipes involve roots crushing and splitting the pipe or with fittings. I have a lot of grade on my property so I do not blow out my pipes. I do drain my pump and valves. I pump from a lake, but many others in the sub are on the local municipal system. Whether you are on a well or a municipal/city water system you need a backflow preventer, not just a check valve to keep your house water safe. I would not rely on a simple anti-siphon valve like you would with just a hose. You may need a permit for that. My experience is that the published spray radius for a sprinkler head is seldom correct, it is usually less. First step is to draw up your property to scale so you can start the design of the system. Don't cheap out on the size or pressure rating of your pipe. Stronger and bigger is always better, or you may find you have inadequate pressure out at the end of the system. If you have multiple zones with electric valves, I suggest the Orbit WiFi timer that you can control from your phone. It works great for turning the system on and off while you adjust or fix heads. https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-57946-6-Station-Sprinkler-Controller/dp/B01D15HOIQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?gclid=CjwKCAjwq-TmBRBdEiwAaO1en6yPfrg961vQ2PW3CZBUPi0B32hPH6iTbZM6 zJqA3fKw2nXv4Dhd4BoC0lAQAvD_BwE&hvadid=267939180875&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9016992&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3283838289289018695&hvtargid=kwd-301172218259&hydadcr=26719_9854686&keywords=orbit+wifi+timer&qid=1557784142&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

[Ken Fitzgerald]

First, as recommended, go to the major sprinkler companies and youtube where you can get some recommendations.

The best free advice I got when I installed my system myself 30+ years ago was Don't put in automatic drains, rather install a "T" where you can hook an air compressor each fall and blow each circuit out at the end of the irrigation season". I did, others didn't. I have never had a problem with a frozen line.

[roger wiegand]

First thing to do is probably check with your local authorities to see what can be permitted, and then find out whether you can use it when you need to. Lots of towns around us will no longer issue permits for automatic sprinkler systems, and even if you can have one installed institute bans on using them that typically run July-September. This is in the soggy east, I can only imagine water is a scarcer resource out west.

I've put in drip systems to critical garden beds, which are an order of magnitude more efficient than broad spraying. Read up on xeriscape landscaping for plants that get by with little added water.

[Bill Dufour]

many folks put spray heads right next to the sidewalk and wonder why so much water is wasted on the concrete. I keep mine back about 12 inches from the concrete. I bury a soaker hose about 3 inches deep roughly 6 inches from the edge of the concrete. No overspray onto the pavement or cars. And it can be run during non water times since no one can tell if it is running.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I can't find anything in the local codes prohibiting in-ground sprinklers. I did find an ordinance saying that electronic timers are mandatory, which seems odd. I believe it will save water because with the old sprinklers on the hose I could never get it positioned just right and ended up watering the deck, the side of the house, the fence, the chicken coop, etc.

[Phil Mueller]

I’d also recommend considering dedicated lawn vs. flower bed zones. It’s nice to be able to set watering days/times differently for lawn vs plants.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I’d also recommend considering dedicated lawn vs. flower bed zones. It’s nice to be able to set watering days/times differently for lawn vs plants.

We don't really have "flower beds" to speak of. We have the lawn in the backyard for the dogs, then a small vegetable garden, and everything else is low-water perennials. I don't water those frequently enough to justify the hassle and expense of sprinklers. There is not anywhere on our entire property I cannot reach with a 25 foot hose.

I got one bid and these guys were, how would you say, idiots. When I showed them the 100+ year old mulberry tree roots they would have to dig under he said "We'll just bring in a chain saw and cut them". That was all I needed to hear.

[Roger Feeley]

Systems are piped either with vinyl or pvc. I prefer vinyl because it's a little flexible. less prone to bursting.

Most systems are supplied from the yard with the valves in the front yard near your water meter. Mine was supplied from my basement. That was both good and bad. I put in extra plumbing so I could connect my shop compressor to blow it out for the winter. I had a pressure gauge on the air line. When I turned on a zone and then opened the air valve, the pressure went up. Then it would slowly fall as air leaked past the water. I would blow it a couple of times. Never had a line burst.

Something you may not have given thought to. I hunted far and wide to get a controller with a remote. Just push a couple of buttons to turn on a zone.

-- It was worth it's weight in gold when I had to work on the system. I always had to replace a head or two in the spring. Put the head in, turn the zone on to see if it's aimed right.
-- I had a big compressor in the basement and used it to blow out the system for winter. the remote was really handy for that.
-- If I had ever had major work done, it would have been handy to leave the remote out for the technician. I wouldn't have had to be home. Of course there's a little thingy on the valves that can activate a zone too. but the remote exercises the controller too.

Note that the pros will bring out a huge compressor to blow out your lines. Those are the gas powered things on trailers. My little 26 gallon compressor couldn't do that but it seemed to be ok. Like I said, watch the pressure gauge and repeat the blowout procedure until you don't see a spike in pressure. That indicates that there is plenty of air space in the pipe.

[Rich Enders]

The most popular systems are polyethylene (LDPE), and Rigid PVC. LDPE is flexible so fairly tight curves are workable. Rigid PVC requires elbows etc. to change direction. LDPE is less expensive to install, but is not as durable as PVC. The quote for our development was X for LDPE, and 2X for Rigid PVC. The life expectancy of LDPE was 3-5 years, and 20-40 years for Rigid PVC.

The durability of LDPE is dependent on whether it is made from "100 hour", or "1000 hour" raw material. The problem is that a consumer cannot tell the difference. If you go with LDPE make sure it is a known brand name. Do not price buy LDPE. Rigid PVC is brittle below freezing temperatures, but is not likely to be exposed to any kind of impact if it is buried at the recommended 6-8 inches.

[Bob Grier]

I recently installed irrigation system. I used combination of 2 classes of PVC, and a couple rolls of 1" HDPE for the main lines. Just depended on purpose and risk exposure you want to take for frost damage.

It is good if you can drain everything by gravity in the Fall and/or blow out the system. In the Fall I remove backflow preventer valve from its casing and insert a dummy cartridge with connection for compressor. Then in Spring I swap the valve back in. That way I can inspect and lube the expensive valve as well as remove it from possible frost damage. It just takes a few minutes to remove and replace 4 bolts. It is made for annual service so is easy.

Consider using drip irrigation for plants, vegetables, and shrubs instead of spray. Drip irrigation can cover a large layout on one zone. Drip system can include emitters, micro sprayers, drip line of different diameters from 1/4" to 3/4" with different output.

Seriously consider a smart controller. It adjusts watering based on actual and forecast weather and environmental conditions. Costs more than timers but saves operational money. They require connection to a wifi network with access to the internet. EPA recommends them.

I went with Hunter Industries system but there are several good systems and many of the fittings and accessories are interchangeable. Be careful about not mixing metric and imperial tubing and fittings. One is brown and other is black. The smaller size (nominal 1/4") stuff can be mixed to some extent.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I am having a hell of a time getting bids. I know it is the busy season. Is it typical for installers to balk at older houses, small lots and mature trees? I had one person tell me they will not do anything in my part of the city because of these combined factors.

[Al Launier]

To get a good idea of where to install the sprinkler head I would suggest making up a few stakes with string attached whose length is about a couple feet shorter than the range of the individual sprinkler heads. use this to position the location of the sprinkler heads. This will help ensure you get total head to head coverage, especially should the water pressure drop a bit.

Also, I would suggest cutting up a 3" dia PVC pipe into 5" lengths to install around each sprinkler head. Surrounding the heads with these sleeves will prevent grass from growing into/around the head over time and provide some protection should you drive over the sprinkler heads with your lawn mower, especially if they don't sit down completely when the water is turned off.

[Ole Anderson]

The most popular systems are polyethylene (LDPE), and Rigid PVC. LDPE is flexible so fairly tight curves are workable. Rigid PVC requires elbows etc. to change direction. LDPE is less expensive to install, but is not as durable as PVC. The quote for our development was X for LDPE, and 2X for Rigid PVC. The life expectancy of LDPE was 3-5 years, and 20-40 years for Rigid PVC.

The durability of LDPE is dependent on whether it is made from "100 hour", or "1000 hour" raw material. The problem is that a consumer cannot tell the difference. If you go with LDPE make sure it is a known brand name. Do not price buy LDPE. Rigid PVC is brittle below freezing temperatures, but is not likely to be exposed to any kind of impact if it is buried at the recommended 6-8 inches.

Hmm, my poly irrigation pipe was installed in 1975 and when dug up, looks like new. At Home Depot, their supplier appears to be Advanced Drainage Products (ADS). Even their UTY (utility) grade pipe is HDPE. UTY is the stuff that is not rated for gas or drinking water (NSF). I would stick with 100 psi pipe unless your well or city delivers at over 70 psi, then I would go with 160 psi pipe. My lake pump system maxes out at about 35 psi.

[Frank Pratt]

The life expectancy of LDPE was 3-5 years, and 20-40 years for Rigid PVC.

Not sure where those figures came from, but I don't buy it. LDPE pipe last decades in irrigation systems. I've had mine in for 27 years & the only problems with it are from when I put a shovel through it. PVC is much tougher, but in cooler climates the LDPE pipe better resists freezing if the system doesn't get blown out in time.

Virtually all residential systems around here are LDPE, which wouldn't be the case if the life expectancy was 3 - 5 years.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I just got a quote for $6500. That is to install sprinklers for less than 1000 square feet. I really want to just hire the trenches and do the rest of this myself, but my wife, perhaps wisely, wants to hire out the whole thing so I can spend time on the deck. She knows how I work, and it is not quickly. If I do it myself how do I figure out how to negotiate the big tree? The trunk is about 4 feet diameter and I need to figure out how to get coverage on all sides of it.

[Bob Grier]

I also wanted to hire out the whole thing. I decided to hire a family member to help with the more physical part and do it my self. What I concluded when done is that if I contracted a complete system, I would not have ended up with near as good of system nor would it have been as flexible or as expandable as the one I did my self. The cost would have been less if I hired it out because I would not have understood what I was getting and the contractor would have held cost down to be able to get the job. I would probably been happy with the completed system. I learned a lot during the build but still would have had to detail every detail in order to end up with a contracted system that was as durable and good as what I built.

I hired a ditch guy for the minimum 4 hours and had the ditches roughed in. I laid out what I wanted and went to the supplier for review and purchase of parts. I did not necessarily go with the cheapest parts starting with the PRV all the way to the sprinkler heads and controller. I used 1" HDPE for the supply, PVC schedule 40 from HDPE to the remote controlled valve vaults, and irrigation type PVC downstream from the valves. The valves reduce pressure and drip lines use lower pressure than sprinklers. I ran wire back to controller located in garage and added a smart controller and rain sensor. I did not go with a main valve nor a flow gauge. I have made some modifications since the initial installation for one reason or another.

I am glad I went to the trouble to do it my self. Family member benefited by having work and I benefited by ending up with a good system that I understand and can easily modify as my needs change.

[Ole Anderson]

Standard practice for DIY irrigation is to rent a trencher. Rocky soil can be problematic as can hard, dry clay.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I finally got a guy to give me a reasonable bid, so I think I'm going to save my knees on this one. I do need to punch a pipe through the foundation to reduce the footage of trench needed.

[Günter VögelBerg]

OK, so one more question. The guy I have hired asked for 3/4 copper coming out of the back of the house. No problem. He said I would need a drain on the non-freezing side. Do I need a stop-and-waste or just a tee with a cap I can remove to drain the line? I know on a typical installation there is a stop-and-waste outside, but if I put one inside where does the water go?

[Ole Anderson]

OK, so one more question. The guy I have hired asked for 3/4 copper coming out of the back of the house. No problem. He said I would need a drain on the non-freezing side. Do I need a stop-and-waste or just a tee with a cap I can remove to drain the line? I know on a typical installation there is a stop-and-waste outside, but if I put one inside where does the water go? A number if ways to drain the water between the inside valve and the outside backflow preventer. A tee with a valve or a stop and waste would be the first two that come to mind. Just close the valve and drain what little water there is into a cup.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I can't find anything in the local codes prohibiting in-ground sprinklers. I did find an ordinance saying that electronic timers are mandatory, which seems odd. I believe it will save water because with the old sprinklers on the hose I could never get it positioned just right and ended up watering the deck, the side of the house, the fence, the chicken coop, etc.

Just FYI, many water supply jurisdictions now use 'smart meters'. They can see how much water you used in any given 15-minute time slice. Really handy if you suspect a leak, but its also used to determine your compliance with any irrigation water restrictions and/or drought limitations. :: No more lawn watering at 3AM, thinking you won't get caught.

Codes in this area generally require a double-block shutoff on the owner's side of the meter - dedicated to the irrigation system, and that is 'publicly' accessible - at least to a representative of the city water department. Water Dept can then padlock a valve if you are caught watering in restricted area/time/zone, but still allow household water use. Also, a rain sensor is required (in all jurisdictions, I assume?), to disable the auto cycle for 3-5 days following measurable rainfall.

Last 2 systems I've had are/were mix of drip and spray. As others have alluded to, drip is very efficient use of water! And in my experience with drip, it requires maybe 10% of the ongoing maintenance needed by spray. Sounds like your coverage requirements are relatively small, so 100% drip might be doable..?

If not drip, then look at gear-driven rotary heads. They can easily throw water 40-50ft, so 1-2 heads could cover each of the various areas you describe - without trenching the entire yard, hopefully.

[Günter VögelBerg]

So I replaced a lot of pipe this weekend. I also learned that the new lead-free solder does not work well with propane. I bought a MAP torch and it worked beautifully.

[Frank Pratt]

So I replaced a lot of pipe this weekend. I also learned that the new lead-free solder does not work well with propane. I bought a MAP torch and it worked beautifully.

Yes, it seems to need more heat. And you need to be meticulous about cleaning the pipe & fittings.

[Rich Enders]

Frank,

Putting a shovel through LDPE was the exact reason our contractor gave for the 3-5 years. Our development hires out the gardening and it is sometimes hard to know (or care) where the piping is buried.

[Jason Roehl]

Frank,

Putting a shovel through LDPE was the exact reason our contractor gave for the 3-5 years. Our development hires out the gardening and it is sometimes hard to know (or care) where the piping is buried.

Shovels break Schedule 80 PVC quite nicely, too.