workbench and vises

[Justin Rapp]

I am in the planning stages of building a new workbench. I have been using heavy folding table that is 72x24 inches and just really not cutting it for me anymore as it's too low and really 6 inches too shallow. I should have gone to a workbench years ago.

Anyway, my plan is to build a workbench that is 72x30 inches to give me some extra space, and add two vises, one on the long side towards the left and another on the short side. I plan to build the top with a 1 3/4 laminated hardwood top and add a 2.25 inch apron/skirt to have a 4" side. Legs/base will be made of 4x4 and 2x4 box stretcher. Table surface I plan to have about 32 inches high as I am 5'8.


For the vises, I am looking at a few front vises. I will drill holes bench dog holes in line with the vises. The Grizzly and WoodRiver I am banking are the same vise re-branded.

1) Grizzly H7788 vise
2) WoodRiver - Large Front Vise
3) Lee River - Large Front vise

Any thoughts on:
- Work surface height and/or table size?
- Base / leg upgrades?
- Other brands or types of vises I should look at?

thanks in advance

[Malcolm McLeod]

...
- Other brands or types of vises I should look at?
...

Benchcrafted!

[Mike Walsh]

I built a bench of similar size roughly based on a design by Garrett Hack detailed in FWW #209. The base legs are made out of 12/4 maple stock with 6/4 x 8" stretchers. The top is (36) 3/4 x 3" maple planks glued face-face (got a good deal on the stock) surrounded by a 5" apron. I looked around at a number of different vises and ended up with 2 of the LN chain-drive models - an 18" on the long side and 24" on the end. The vices are not inexpensive, but work great. I have a rubberized cork on the jaws and have no issue with holding anything I've wanted to. The bench is very heavy which I also like

[ChrisA Edwards]

I did similar last year, may give you some ideas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPy5fkNf_98

[Mike Kees]

My bench is a laminated top of one inch plywood ,then a layer of 3/4'' plywood, and baltic birch 5/8'' on top. I glued the layers one at a time and screwed them until glue was dry then removed the screws and added next layer. The base is a classic mortise and tenon affair with 2x8 for stretchers ,the legs were glued up 2x4. This was my'' temporary'' bench to work out details of construction. That was 6 years ago.:D It is dead flat,solid and heavy,works great. It is way down on my list of priorities ,if ever that I will build my dream bench. I have way more projects that need doing first on my list. I have only one vise on this bench it is a Record.

[Ted Reischl]

4x4's are a lousy way to make legs. There is not enough room to create decent shoulders for the stretchers without weakening the legs.

A better bet is use some 2x6. Plane it down so that it cleans up for gluing. Then laminate those pieces together leaving an opening for your stretchers. This saves having to fool around cutting mortises. You should do this so that the stretcher that is laminated into the leg is in line with expected forces on your workbench. ie, if you plane on the bench then they should run the long length of the bench so that they resist racking.

If you are looking for weight consider using SYP for the legs. The wider stuff usually has very few knots.

Remember, this thing is a workbench, unless you are building a "look at what I made" bench.

[John Sanford]

Aprons, unless they are TALL (like a "Nicholson") are a TERRIBLE idea. They create all sorts of clamping hassles because of the "void" behind them. (DAMHIKT!) If you haven't done so, pick up this book: https://www.amazon.com/Workbenches-Revised-Design-Theory-Construction/dp/1440343128 It's great strength is it is as much or more about how different features of a workbench help you accomplish what you're doing, than it is about specific plans or what wood you use.

[Justin Rapp]

4x4's are a lousy way to make legs. There is not enough room to create decent shoulders for the stretchers without weakening the legs.

A better bet is use some 2x6. Plane it down so that it cleans up for gluing. Then laminate those pieces together leaving an opening for your stretchers. This saves having to fool around cutting mortises. You should do this so that the stretcher that is laminated into the leg is in line with expected forces on your workbench. ie, if you plane on the bench then they should run the long length of the bench so that they resist racking.

If you are looking for weight consider using SYP for the legs. The wider stuff usually has very few knots.

Remember, this thing is a workbench, unless you are building a "look at what I made" bench.

I like the suggestion of 2x6 syp for the legs and leave gaps on the glue up for the stretchers. The 4x4's I was looking at are douglas fir so they might not actually have as much weight as SYP. Good suggestion.

For me - this is a workbench that is going to get used, not a 'showpiece' of a dustless shop :)

[Justin Rapp]

Aprons, unless they are TALL (like a "Nicholson") are a TERRIBLE idea. They create all sorts of clamping hassles because of the "void" behind them. (DAMHIKT!) If you haven't done so, pick up this book: https://www.amazon.com/Workbenches-Revised-Design-Theory-Construction/dp/1440343128 It's great strength is it is as much or more about how different features of a workbench help you accomplish what you're doing, than it is about specific plans or what wood you use.

Good point - I have clamping issues now with using a stupid folding table :) What is a 'Nicholson'?

[Patrick Kane]

I missed it, but do you have a budget? I really cheaped out on my bench hardware, and while i didnt have a choice all those years ago, im kinda paying for it now. I think hardwood and hardware combined were $125-150. I have a lee valley large front vise on the end cap of my roubo-esque bench. Its a big 16/4 cherry chop with corresponding holes in it so it doubles as a tail vise. I also had a lee valley tail vise screw acting as a leg vise for a time being. The problem with cheap hardware is it all racks in a big way! I eventually scrapped the leg vise, and now just use holdfasts and the front vise. If I could go back and counsel myself, i would have gone for a higher quality front vise, like a veritas twin screw. Or even gone with a vintage Wilton or similar. My bench rocks and was the first legit woodworking project i ever did. I just loved working at that scale of joinery. However, the next one when i move homes will have a huge budget and i will most definitely have benchcrafted.

[Jon Nuckles]

I have the Veritas twin-screw on the front of my bench and a Benchcrafted wagon vise on the end. I love Lee Valley and Veritas, but the Benchcrafted vise is much smoother and grips with less effort. Someday, I am going to change out the front vise to one of the options from Benchcrafted.

[Scott Winners]

This sounds more like an assembly table than it does sound like a work bench. What operations are you planning to do on this horizontal surface?

EDIT: Not judging, just asking.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I built my workbench similar to the 24 hour workbench from Popular Woodworking Magazine. 4 layers of plywood glued and initially screwed together, cleaned up with a router, with pine trim all the way around. Contrary to one of the replies, I made my legs out of pressure treated 4x4s and they worked just fine. Mortises for the end assemblies and bed bolts to hold the long stretchers into mortises at the bottom. I just have a front vise, as I use a Zyliss off the end if I need a tail vise. Dog holes front and rear for that.

I also used Norm Abrams method of attaching casters to a flip-up hinged board inside the base, with flip-down jack boards to hold them in place to make it mobile, but when I set it down, its down. I also installed leveling feet, in the form of 1" bolts into the ends of the legs, which can be used to level it if I need it, though where it sits now, I haven't needed to mess with it in years. It is now about 15 years old, dead flat, and you can climb on it if you need to.

Doc

[Derek Cohen]

I am in the planning stages of building a new workbench. I have been using heavy folding table that is 72x24 inches and just really not cutting it for me anymore as it's too low and really 6 inches too shallow. I should have gone to a workbench years ago.

Anyway, my plan is to build a workbench that is 72x30 inches to give me some extra space, and add two vises, one on the long side towards the left and another on the short side. I plan to build the top with a 1 3/4 laminated hardwood top and add a 2.25 inch apron/skirt to have a 4" side. Legs/base will be made of 4x4 and 2x4 box stretcher. Table surface I plan to have about 32 inches high as I am 5'8.


For the vises, I am looking at a few front vises. I will drill holes bench dog holes in line with the vises. The Grizzly and WoodRiver I am banking are the same vise re-branded.

1) Grizzly H7788 vise
2) WoodRiver - Large Front Vise
3) Lee River - Large Front vise

Any thoughts on:
- Work surface height and/or table size?
- Base / leg upgrades?
- Other brands or types of vises I should look at?

thanks in advance

Is this bench for use with hand planes, or power tools? If hand planes, it needs to be as rack-free and heavy as possible. The face vise would be chosen for edge jointing. I use a leg vise. The end vise is used to hold boards for face planing. I use a BenchCrafted wagon vise. A Moxon vise is held on top of the bench for sawing dovetails.

If to be used primarily for power tools, look at the Record-equivalents or double screw from either LV or LN.

If used against a wall, unless you have arms like a gorilla, keep the width under 24”. I am happy with 22”. My bench is 78” long and 3 1/2” thick, all hardwood. I am a blended woodworker and hand plane user.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Justin Rapp]

I missed it, but do you have a budget? I really cheaped out on my bench hardware, and while i didnt have a choice all those years ago, im kinda paying for it now. I think hardwood and hardware combined were $125-150. I have a lee valley large front vise on the end cap of my roubo-esque bench. Its a big 16/4 cherry chop with corresponding holes in it so it doubles as a tail vise. I also had a lee valley tail vise screw acting as a leg vise for a time being. The problem with cheap hardware is it all racks in a big way! I eventually scrapped the leg vise, and now just use holdfasts and the front vise. If I could go back and counsel myself, i would have gone for a higher quality front vise, like a veritas twin screw. Or even gone with a vintage Wilton or similar. My bench rocks and was the first legit woodworking project i ever did. I just loved working at that scale of joinery. However, the next one when i move homes will have a huge budget and i will most definitely have benchcrafted.


I have the Veritas twin-screw on the front of my bench and a Benchcrafted wagon vise on the end. I love Lee Valley and Veritas, but the Benchcrafted vise is much smoother and grips with less effort. Someday, I am going to change out the front vise to one of the options from Benchcrafted.


This sounds more like an assembly table than it does sound like a work bench. What operations are you planning to do on this horizontal surface?

EDIT: Not judging, just asking.

Patrick, while I really didn't set a budget on the overall project but I don't want to go crazy with cost, which is why I am not planning to use rock maple for the legs and stretchers. For a vise, spending a few $ more is fine, but I don't want to be into a pair of vises that are 250 a piece, which is why I posted the ones I was originally looking at. I would however get annoyed if I spent $90 on a vice and it sux and could have spent 130-140 on something much better.

John, I love the Veritas twin-screw. There is one on the bench my ww club has and it is really nice. It would be a stretch to spend $240 on the vise, esp since I plan to install 2 of them, but maybe i will just need to suck it up and get at least one for the end.

Scott, it's an 'everything' table. From clamping down work pieces to chisel a mortise and other hand-fitting of joinery, sanding, assembly, etc.

[Justin Rapp]

Is this bench for use with hand planes, or power tools? If hand planes, it needs to be as rack-free and heavy as possible. The face vise would be chosen for edge jointing. I use a leg vise. The end vise is used to hold boards for face planing. I use a BenchCrafted wagon vise. A Moxon vise is held on top of the bench for sawing dovetails.

If to be used primarily for power tools, look at the Record-equivalents or double screw from either LV or LN.

If used against a wall, unless you have arms like a gorilla, keep the width under 24”. I am happy with 22”. My bench is 78” long and 3 1/2” thick, all hardwood. I am a blended woodworker and hand plane user.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I don't really hand plane much now, if I do, it's just to shave off some wood for a joint. I am starting to get more interested in hand tools, but with the time I get to spend in my shop, power tools make things go a bit faster. My reason for going wider is for assembly purposes, having the extra with would be helpful. Looks like I am in need of expanding my vise selection and while I didn't set an exact budget, I am going to also need to expand how much I was somewhat thinking about spending.

[Brian Tymchak]

I have the Veritas twin-screw on the front of my bench and a Benchcrafted wagon vise on the end. I love Lee Valley and Veritas, but the Benchcrafted vise is much smoother and grips with less effort. Someday, I am going to change out the front vise to one of the options from Benchcrafted.

I too put a Veritas twin-screw in the face position and wish I had chosen a quick release. It's a nice vise, but I now realize I prefer speed. Unfortunately, the bench design assumed the twin screw as the vise straddles the leg. I can't put a quick-release in the same place and do not have room outside the leg. So, choose your vices before making final design decisions.

[David Bassett]

... What is a 'Nicholson'?

Just in case this was serious, Peter Nicholson wrote "Mechanic's Companion" in the early 19th century. (A reprint of an 1845 edition is available from Megan Fitzpatrick's Rude Mechanicals Press and a few retailers, e.g. TFWW & LV.) In it he described an English Joiner's Bench (Plate 12). It became known as the Nicholson bench.

There are many recent books & articles that describe variations of it. Chris Schwarz describes it, and its advantages & disadvantages, in his two workbench books. Plus, Mike Siemsen covers building one in his "The Naked Woodworker" video. (Note that's naked as in without tools or skills, i.e. beginning, not as in without clothes.)

[Justin Rapp]

Just in case this was serious, Peter Nicholson wrote "Mechanic's Companion" in the early 19th century. (A reprint of an 1845 edition is available from Megan Fitzpatrick's Rude Mechanicals Press and a few retailers, e.g. TFWW & LV.) In it he described an English Joiner's Bench (Plate 12). It became known as the Nicholson bench.

There are many recent books & articles that describe variations of it. Chris Schwarz describes it, and its advantages & disadvantages, in his two workbench books. Plus, Mike Siemsen covers building one in his "The Naked Woodworker" video. (Note that's naked as in without tools or skills, i.e. beginning, not as in without clothes.)

Yup - sorry it was serious, I really never researched workbench history. Anyway, I did get a copy of Chris Schwarz's Workbench Design Book last night.

[David Bassett]

Yup - sorry it was serious, I really never researched workbench history. Anyway, I did get a copy of Chris Schwarz's Workbench Design Book last night.

I'm not sure it's availability, with F+W Media's bankruptcy and all, and I think the DVD was already out of print, but if you can find Mike's video it would go a long way explaining the actual construction. (I don't generally like videos, preferring something I can consume at my own speed and easily refer back to, but I really liked Mike's teaching style. Very down to earth, very practical, but not at all condescending.) He also had a short video on work holding without vises he put up when the tool & bench video was released.

ETA: I think the Nicholson bench is generally recommended as the easy to build, quick, cheap bench you can use for 6 months, or 30 years, while you decide what your "real" bench will look like. And once you decide you can use your Nicholson to help build your fancy Roubo, or whatever.... :)

[Justin Rapp]

ETA: I think the Nicholson bench is generally recommended as the easy to build, quick, cheap bench you can use for 6 months, or 30 years, while you decide what your "real" bench will look like. And once you decide you can use your Nicholson to help build your fancy Roubo, or whatever.... :)

I am going the Roubo route :)