Is it Normal for a New Car to Burn Oil ?

[Andrew Joiner]

We have a 2019 car with 11,000 miles on it that's my wifes. We it bought new from a dealer. First oil change was at dealer at 5k as recommended. No idea if it was low as I trusted a new car not to burn oil. At 7k mi a low oil light came on. It was a quart low! I added proper spec oil. Now 1k mi after the 2nd oil change its a quart low. No drips or leaks. The local quick lube who did the 2nd change is a friend and he and I are both mystified.

I googled it and found:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
Subaru considers a quart burned every 1,000 to 1,200 miles to be acceptable! Audi, BMW, and Subaru stick firmly to the statement that oil consumption is a normal.

Consumer reports says Subaru is wrong. I'm ready to insist Subaru fix the problem.

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

[Wade Lippman]

Neither of my Subarus (2011 and 2019) did that.

Cars have changed significantly in the last few years to tighter tolerances and thicker oils, but my 2016 Mazda never burned oil either.

Just read your article... It is dated 2015 and says that Subaru has been fixing the problem. Do they still say it is normal?

[Jeff Bartley]

Andrew,

Our forester burns a little oil too. From what I've gathered the rings don't always seat properly which leads to more than normal blow-by.

The issue is suppose to be warrantied to 100000 miles. But where it gets dicey is that in order to determine if it's burning too much you have to take it to a dealer and request an oil burn test. They will then do an oil change and have you drive it a certain number of miles and then check the level. So you're basically trusting that they're honest.

We had the test done on ours at around 40-50k miles and they told us it passed.

My '96 Cummins with 420k doesn't burn a drop!

[Art Mann]

Consumer Reports opinion means exactly nothing when it comes to determining what is and isn't normal. If the owner's manual says to expect to have to add oil then you don't have a legal leg to stand on. Having said that, I would be irritated too. I have owned a lot more new cars than most people because I worked for a car company and it was in my financial best interests. I never had a new car that used that much oil - even after 100,000 miles.

[Mike Henderson]

There's no reason for a modern car to use (burn or leak) oil.

Mike

[Frank Pratt]

My 03 8.1L GM has always burned a liter about every 4000 Km, which is what the documentation said it would do. My '13 Honda V6 has never burned a drop & it has about 230,000 Km on it now. The diesel Smart my wife had always used oil, but not our Mazda or Nissan. Seems like most don't but some do.

[Lee Schierer]

I would say that the amount of oil being consumed by your auto is abnormal. I have owned 11 cars and small trucks ( 1 Opel, 3 Toyotas, 5 Mazdas, and 2 Hondas) over the years and none ever consumed oil. At least 8 of them had over 100K miles and still didn't lose/use any appreciable amount of oil between oil changes.

[Doug Dawson]

We have a 2019 car with 11,000 miles on it that's my wifes. We it bought new from a dealer. First oil change was at dealer at 5k as recommended. No idea if it was low as I trusted a new car not to burn oil. At 7k mi a low oil light came on. It was a quart low! I added proper spec oil. Now 1k mi after the 2nd oil change its a quart low. No drips or leaks. The local quick lube who did the 2nd change is a friend and he and I are both mystified.

I googled it and found:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
Subaru considers a quart burned every 1,000 to 1,200 miles to be acceptable! Audi, BMW, and Subaru stick firmly to the statement that oil consumption is a normal.

Consumer reports says Subaru is wrong. I'm ready to insist Subaru fix the problem.

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

If a Subaru has one of the Subaru boxer engines, some oil consumption is normal. It's just the nature of their flat 4. A tendency to eventually eat head gaskets is also normal, but you should be able to get at least 100k on the vehicle before that happens.

Just make sure you keep checking the oil every 1000 miles or so.

Is it using 0w-20 oil? That stuff tends to evaporate more quickly. In any case, keep a spare quart in the trunk.

[Jim Becker]

Doug is correct. Different engine types can have certain characteristics. And sometimes a particular engine will behave differently. That said, "excessive" usage is not something I would consider normal, but defining excessive is complicated, especially when a manufacturer's written specifications allow usage over what many of us would consider up to our expectations.

The 5.7L Hemi that was in my MY12 Grand Cherokee used a quart in about 4000 miles which was half the change interval. That particular engine often exhibits this behavior. The written spec said it could use that much in as little as 1000 miles and they would consider it normal. Our 2011 Subaru Outback uses a quart in about two months...we've gotten our daughter conditioned to check it monthly now. The 2016 Outback doesn't use any oil. I don't know what I'll see with my 2019 Subaru Ascent yet as it only has 200 miles on it...

[Gordon Eyre]

I am still driving an Infinity that I bought new in 1997. It now has 238000 miles on it and I have never had to add oil to it between my 3000 mile changes. It's amazing.

[Mike Henderson]

One of the biggest advances in gasoline motors has been the development of improved oils. Years ago, the bearings on the crankshaft would wear out - to fix it was called a bottom end job (you'd put new bearing inserts in). Then, the rings would wear along with the cylinder walls. The rings would not wipe all the oil off the cylinder walls and that oil would get burned by the combustion. You just don't see that any more. The last thing was the valve guides - the intake valve guide would wear and then the engine would suck oil down along the valve stem and burn it. You'd have to do a "valve job" which would involve replacing the valve guides about every 50,000 miles. These days, that problem is pretty much eliminated.

The engines in modern cars are just amazing. If you take care of them, it's not unusual to get 250,000 to 300,000 miles (or even more) from an engine with very minimal repairs. Years ago, 100,000 miles on an engine was considered a good lifetime.

Mike

[Jeff Bartley]

Jim,

How do you like the Ascent? I've been surprised that I haven't seen more on the road.

As mentioned above we have a forester that uses a little oil and that fact alone has me put off from buying another Subaru. Otherwise it's a great car.

[roger wiegand]

My last BMW used a quart every 5-600 miles; that was said to be normal. My current Mini uses about a quart every 1000 miles. OTOH, I've never had to add oil to my F350 diesel, the level has never even budged.

[Steve Demuth]

One of the biggest advances in gasoline motors has been the development of improved oils. Years ago, the bearings on the crankshaft would wear out - to fix it was called a bottom end job (you'd put new bearing inserts in). Then, the rings would wear along with the cylinder walls. The rings would not wipe all the oil off the cylinder walls and that oil would get burned by the combustion. You just don't see that any more. The last thing was the valve guides - the intake valve guide would wear and then the engine would suck oil down along the valve stem and burn it. You'd have to do a "valve job" which would involve replacing the valve guides about every 50,000 miles. These days, that problem is pretty much eliminated.

The engines in modern cars are just amazing. If you take care of them, it's not unusual to get 250,000 to 300,000 miles (or even more) from an engine with very minimal repairs. Years ago, 100,000 miles on an engine was considered a good lifetime.

Mike

Exactly. Engines are way better, and so are lubricants. I drive a Toyota Prius, change the (synthetic) oil every 10,000 miles (the spec is 5000 miles, but the identical car is sold in Europe spec'd for 15,000 km), and it comes out looking almost as clean and fresh at that mileage as it went in. Collectively my wife and I have put 250,000 miles on three of the same model Toyotas without a single engine related issue. Only issues have been computer failure (once), a lost fight at 60mph with a deer, and un inexplicable attraction of the air system to field mice as a nesting box.

I would not tolerate a new engine using oil.

[Frederick Skelly]

Consumer Reports opinion means exactly nothing when it comes to determining what is and isn't normal.

I'd hate it if my car used oil like you describe. But I strongly agree with Art here. Read your owners' manual. Talk to tour dealer's service department. Then evaluate your options based on what you learn.

[Jim Becker]

Jim,

How do you like the Ascent? I've been surprised that I haven't seen more on the road.

As mentioned above we have a forester that uses a little oil and that fact alone has me put off from buying another Subaru. Otherwise it's a great car.

I've loved it for the entire 200 miles I've put on so far. :) But seriously, we're an all Subaru family now. The safety alone is a good thing...and Ascent is rated as one of the safest on the road at this point. Ascent is just finishing up its first year of production and is in high demand, but yes, there are not huge numbers on the road "yet". I'm not bothered by "normal quirks" of engines like oil use patterns as I noted above. Despite some perceptions, all engines "use" oil because of how the oil is used to lubricate moving parts. The degree is variable by engine type and by individual engine. And with today's longer maintenance windows because of improved lubricants and vastly improved engine designs, we might actually notice a little oil usage more that folks that stick to the very old "change at 3000 miles" schedule. Those engines are also "using" oil, but it's less apparent because it gets changed so soon. That all said, I say it again...excessive oil use isn't normal. But what constitutes excessive is not a concrete thing.

[Bob Glenn]

Neither of my Subarus (2011 and 2019) did that.

Cars have changed significantly in the last few years to tighter tolerances and thicker oils, but my 2016 Mazda never burned oil either.

Just read your article... It is dated 2015 and says that Subaru has been fixing the problem. Do they still say it is normal?

I believe that is THINNER oils, not thicker.

[Andrew Joiner]

Consumer Reports opinion means exactly nothing when it comes to determining what is and isn't normal. If the owner's manual says to expect to have to add oil then you don't have a legal leg to stand on. Having said that, I would be irritated too. I have owned a lot more new cars than most people because I worked for a car company and it was in my financial best interests. I never had a new car that used that much oil - even after 100,000 miles.
Thanks Art.
"oil consumption" in the owner's manual is like most new car manuals. It says "oil consumption" is normal under some driving conditions that we don't do. It doesn't specify any oil amounts or miles. So legally they may have an out.

[Andrew Joiner]

Andrew,

Our forester burns a little oil too. From what I've gathered the rings don't always seat properly which leads to more than normal blow-by.

The issue is suppose to be warrantied to 100000 miles. But where it gets dicey is that in order to determine if it's burning too much you have to take it to a dealer and request an oil burn test. They will then do an oil change and have you drive it a certain number of miles and then check the level. So you're basically trusting that they're honest.

We had the test done on ours at around 40-50k miles and they told us it passed.

My '96 Cummins with 420k doesn't burn a drop!
Thanks Jeff. What year is your Forester? We will get the oil burn test done. My Toyota with 80k on it doesn't burn a drop either.

Where did you find it to be warrantied to 100000 miles on this oil issue?
The powertrain is covered for 60k or 5 years on ours.

[Kev Williams]

Couple of thoughts here- Immediately after your oil changes, which is to say after the drive home from the shop and the engine has cooled, did you check the oil? It's entirely likely half or so of your missing oil was never there in the first place. Most shops use metered oil dispensers, and even if they're reasonably accurate you may not be getting a full pan of oil. For an accurate dipstick reading the engine must run at least a few minutes then allowed to rest long enough for all the oil to drain back into the pan.

The last 2 times I've had the oil changed in my beater '04 Chevy Venture, the next morning I've found the dipstick to say 1/2 quart low.

--newer engines not burning oil, another reason old engines used to wear out quickly: higher engine speeds. In the old days a typical car came with a 3 to 3.5 to 1 ratio differential gear and no overdrive, this meant running roughly 3000 rpm at 70mph freeway speeds. These days most cars will run 70 mph at 1500 rpm or less. I read once that an engine running @ 3000 rpm is using 40% of it's power output just to maintain its no-load speed! To that, add the resistance of pushing a 3500# car 70 mph, now the engine is really working hard! And needs a lot of fuel to do so! And, that extra fuel washes oil off the cylinder walls-- all that adds to accelerated wear. Today's engines are built tighter in the first place, computer controlled fuel control allows for making much more power at lower speeds, which greatly reduces power needed just to keep the motor running leaving more power to push the car- it all adds up to much improved fuel economy and engines that don't wear out!

'they don't build 'em like they used to!' -- yes, thankfully :)

[Wade Lippman]

I believe that is THINNER oils, not thicker.

Of course. Sorry.

[Rod Sheridan]

All engines burn oil, the cylinder walls have the oil burned off on every combustion cycle.

If the lubricant level isn’t falling, it’s due to fuel dilution, something an oil analysis will show.

The manufacturer will have a specification for fuel consumption which should be accurate....Regards, Rod

[Matt Day]

My ‘04 Forester burned about a quart ever 3-4k miles. It had about 130k miles on it when I sold it last year.

I’ve only done one oil change on my Ascent and noticed no loss (which means my oil pan was about full).

When I bought my Ascent back in August there was a preorder list and every Ascent that arrived at the dealership was spoken for. Basically they couldn’t be made quick enough for demand. It took a while before I started seeing them on the road. Today I saw 4 and was out for about 2 hours today.

[Ben Helmich]

Take it to the dealer, get it documented. Do it now. You never know how many warranties Subaru has on it and when they all expire. Not everything will be covered for 100K. They may do an oil consultation test. If so, follow their directions to the letter. They will likely have an oil consumption spec somewhere. For Ford, the spec used to be about 1qt per 1000 miles. That’s very generous, but you have to have some kind of spec to decide when to go into a motor and spend the manufacturer’s money on a repair. Oil consumption is uncommon but not unusual. Some cars just use oil. The question is always is it bad enough to spend thousands to make it go away. Make sure you’re using the proper weight oil. Other things can cause oil consumption also, including PCV systems, turbos, and oil leaks. How much oil consumption is “right” or what is “warrantable” may be two different things. I spent about 20yrs as a Ford service tech. I’ve been through this a few times as the tech.

[Andrew Joiner]

Take it to the dealer, get it documented. Do it now. You never know how many warranties Subaru has on it and when they all expire. Not everything will be covered for 100K. They may do an oil consultation test. If so, follow their directions to the letter. They will likely have an oil consumption spec somewhere. For Ford, the spec used to be about 1qt per 1000 miles. That’s very generous, but you have to have some kind of spec to decide when to go into a motor and spend the manufacturer’s money on a repair. Oil consumption is uncommon but not unusual. Some cars just use oil. The question is always is it bad enough to spend thousands to make it go away. Make sure you’re using the proper weight oil. Other things can cause oil consumption also, including PCV systems, turbos, and oil leaks. How much oil consumption is “right” or what is “warrantable” may be two different things. I spent about 20yrs as a Ford service tech. I’ve been through this a few times as the tech.
Thanks.
So your saying some new Fords would consume 1qt per 1000 miles and it was within the spec and not warrantied? What year was that?

[Mike Henderson]

Take it to the dealer, get it documented. Do it now. You never know how many warranties Subaru has on it and when they all expire. Not everything will be covered for 100K. They may do an oil consultation test. If so, follow their directions to the letter. They will likely have an oil consumption spec somewhere. For Ford, the spec used to be about 1qt per 1000 miles. That’s very generous, but you have to have some kind of spec to decide when to go into a motor and spend the manufacturer’s money on a repair. Oil consumption is uncommon but not unusual. Some cars just use oil. The question is always is it bad enough to spend thousands to make it go away. Make sure you’re using the proper weight oil. Other things can cause oil consumption also, including PCV systems, turbos, and oil leaks. How much oil consumption is “right” or what is “warrantable” may be two different things. I spent about 20yrs as a Ford service tech. I’ve been through this a few times as the tech.

I'd never accept the loss of one quart of oil every 1,000 miles on a car that I owned. The standard time between oil changes is now about 7,500 to 10,000 or 12,000 miles (depending on the type of oil). Assuming your engine had a capacity of four or five quarts of oil, you would be replacing the oil (by your additions) several times between oil changes. Even worse, if you forgot to check the oil on a very regular basis, you'd be getting an "oil light" on a regular basis, and it you didn't react to it pretty quickly, you could run the engine without oil.

It's been a long time since I owned a car that needed to have oil added between oil changes.

Mike

[Ben Helmich]

Andrew, it was maybe five years ago. My recollection of the spec may be off a little, but that’s the gist of it. And hardly any cars did it. And if they did, it was so slight you would never notice. My wife did have a Chrysler 300 that was close to that spec. It would be off the stick at oil change time. And I’d bet that most new car companies have similar specs. When a car comes in with that concern we would do an “oil consumption test.” Paint the drain plug and filter, top off the oil, let it sit for a while, scribe the dipstick at the oil level. Give it to the customer to drive for a certain mileage. Customer does not add oil or the test is invalid. Comes back in, top it off, do the math. Pass or fail. That’s how it was spelled out in the warranty guide book. But take yours in and get it documented on paper. If you’re going to be in this car for a long time you want it to be on Subaru’s dime if it needs a repair. Not on yours after the warranty is expired.

[Eric Danstrom]

Modern engines have looser piston rings to help with gas mileage. Specifying maximum of 1qt per 1000 miles is pretty standard amongst the various manufacturers. Some individual engines are worst than others within the same model year. If you're at the limit it's frustrating but there's little an owner can do.

[Robert Engel]

I have never heard of engines being designed to burn oil that's a new one on me. Even if this is true, what the poster is describing is way over the top

I have 4 vehicles ranging from 80K to 224K. I never have to add oil to any of them between changes. This includes an '06 F150(200k), a '97 Powerstroke (225K which I only change q 10K miles). My '08 Honda Element (160K) uses synthetic oil is also changed at 10K intervals and I never have to add oil between.

With that Subaru, I would be back to the dealership immediately and tell them you want them to explain why the engine is using oil. Quite simply, if its not leaking out, then the motor is consuming it, which means you need a new motor, IMO.

But at the very least, get it in your service record and start a personal record of oil consumption.

[andy bessette]

Excessive oil consumption is usually the result of improper engine break-in.

[Eric Danstrom]

I have never heard of engines being designed to burn oil that's a new one on me. Even if this is true, what the poster is describing is way over the top .....

You almost got it right. Yes, engines are designed to burn oil, all of them do it to some degree. But the question is how much is acceptable. (I promise you even your best and most favorite engine burned some amount of oil, it's the nature of gasoline power piston based internal combustion engines.)

Here's the larger explaination; in the never-ending quest for better gas mileage, manufacturers have chosen newer design criteria for piston rings. These days engines have looser rings to increase gas mileage. The unfortunate result is that a certain percentage of these engines burn oil at a higher rate than consumers expect. All the manufacturers I am familiar with consider anything over 1qt per 1000 miles as acceptable and inside the specification. If your engine burns a quart per 1000 miles you're stuck. Use the Google if you don't believe me.

[Eric Danstrom]

Here's a good link:
https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/when-is-oil-consumption-considered-excessive


With the consumer demand for more fuel efficient vehicles, there have been a couple of engine changes that influence the answer to this issue. These changes have affected the amount of oil an engine will consume by burning it and still be considered acceptable.

One change comes from changes in the piston ringers for the sake of fuel economy. The highest friction point in an engine is the point where the piston rings are in contact the cylinder walls. The higher the ring tension, the more efficient they will be at scraping oil off the cylinder walls on the downward stroke of the piston. In order to reduce friction and achieve additional fuel economy, the auto manufacturers have reduced the piston ring tension. This ring tension change has resulted in small amounts of oil getting past the piston rings into the combustion chamber where it is burned. This is the primary cause of normal oil consumption in most properly-serviced vehicles.​

[michael langman]

It doesn't make sense to me. If an engine is using oil then it is polluting the air. The whole purpose of better gas milage to reduce pollution, to allow us to put a quart of burnt oil into the atmosphere sounds ridiculous to me.
If I put a quart of oil into my engine every 1000 miles, then in 100,000 miles I am burning 100quarts of oil,divided by 4 is 25 gallons of oil!

[Robert Engel]

Eric I think you are referring to thinner rings, not looser rings. Motors burning excessive amts OD oil are defective, period.

Michael, you’re making too much sense!

[Eric Danstrom]

Eric I think you are referring to thinner rings, not looser rings. Motors burning excessive amts OD oil are defective, period.

Michael, you’re making too much sense!
The cited article I quoted calls the rings as "reduced tension" not "thinner" as you claim. The change and it's effect are well known. And rings haven't needed to "break in" for at least 4 decades.....

[Eric Danstrom]

It doesn't make sense to me....
I'm not arguing the point. I am explaining how modern engines with looser, reduced tension piston rings can have relatively high oil consumption and still be considered inside the specification. It's a fact and op is stuck with his car and will receive no consideration from the manufacturer.

[Larry Frank]

I do not know about the ring issue. But, I have two new 2018 cars and they burn almost no oil. If I were looking for a new vehicle and reading reviews and complaints, I would stay very far away where burning that much oil is considered normal.

[Chuck Wintle]

We have a 2019 car with 11,000 miles on it that's my wifes. We it bought new from a dealer. First oil change was at dealer at 5k as recommended. No idea if it was low as I trusted a new car not to burn oil. At 7k mi a low oil light came on. It was a quart low! I added proper spec oil. Now 1k mi after the 2nd oil change its a quart low. No drips or leaks. The local quick lube who did the 2nd change is a friend and he and I are both mystified.

I googled it and found:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm
Subaru considers a quart burned every 1,000 to 1,200 miles to be acceptable! Audi, BMW, and Subaru stick firmly to the statement that oil consumption is a normal.

Consumer reports says Subaru is wrong. I'm ready to insist Subaru fix the problem.

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks
As was mentioned in another post make sure the problem is well documented by the dealer as well as yourself. check the oil level often, record the mileage etc. If there is a problem with rings or some component it will not get any better. Have you investigated for leaks etc.

[Robert Engel]

I'm not arguing the point. I am explaining how modern engines with looser, reduced tension piston rings can have relatively high oil consumption and still be considered inside the specification. It's a fact and op is stuck with his car and will receive no consideration from the manufacturer.

I understand what you're saying, but the reality is none of my vehicles even come close to burning that amount of oil.

1 quart per 1000 miles means on a lot of cars you never would even change the oil, just the filter :eek:

[michael langman]

Rings come in sets of three. The top ring is the oil ring. This keeps the oil from getting by into the intake,exhaust valves. That is the ring that causes oil consumption because it is letting the oil go by by being looser and thinner.
The 2 lower rings do not let oil get by because they act as a hydraulic cylinder. If that much oil got by that is burning a quart in 1000 miles then the engine would have compression problems. If those rings are leaking then their is something wrong.
I would run a thicker oil in the engine. If this helps the oil consumption then the thinner oil might be getting by the compression rings.

[Chuck Wintle]

Rings come in sets of three. The top ring is the oil ring. This keeps the oil from getting by into the intake,exhaust valves. That is the ring that causes oil consumption because it is letting the oil go by by being looser and thinner.
The 2 lower rings do not let oil get by because they act as a hydraulic cylinder. If that much oil got by that is burning a quart in 1000 miles then the engine would have compression problems. If those rings are leaking then their is something wrong.
I would run a thicker oil in the engine. If this helps the oil consumption then the thinner oil might be getting by the compression rings.
I will disagree with your suggestion to run thicker oil.:eek: That very likely would void the warranty if they needed an excuse to do that. Also the top ring is a compression ring. the oil control ring(s) are lower down on piston body..

[Andrew Joiner]

As was mentioned in another post make sure the problem is well documented by the dealer as well as yourself. check the oil level often, record the mileage etc. If there is a problem with rings or some component it will not get any better. Have you investigated for leaks etc.
No leaks or spots on our driveway.

Shortly after the first oil change by the dealer a low oil light came on. It was a quart low and I added synthetic oil as specified. My wife reported that to Subaru by phone only. I checked the oil often after that.

Now with the second qt burnt on the second oil change I was alarmed. She took it to Subaru and they put in a qt free. I was surprised to see the receipt when my wife got home. No mention of anything unusual. My wife is more trusting of sales people on these things and it is her car. Now I'm doing all the talking and documenting with Subaru. We're getting the Oil consumption test done this week.

[andy bessette]

I will disagree with your suggestion to run thicker oil.:eek: That very likely would void the warranty if they needed an excuse to do that. Also the top ring is a compression ring. the oil control ring(s) are lower down on piston body..

This I agree with.

[Kev Williams]

First oil change was at dealer at 5k as recommended. No idea if it was low as I trusted a new car not to burn oil. At 7k mi a low oil light came on. It was a quart low! I added proper spec oil. Now 1k mi after the 2nd oil change its a quart low. No drips or leaks. The local quick lube who did the 2nd change is a friend and he and I are both mystified.
I've asked this once, I'm asking again: Did you check your oil immediately after your oil changes?

I'm curious because what we know is: the first quart of oil missing was 2000 miles immediately after the first oil change, and the second quart of oil missing was 1000 miles after the second oil change?

What I/we don't know is, after YOU topped off the oil and assured the pan was full, how many miles did it take to burn ANOTHER quart of oil?

If you've mentioned this and I missed it, my apologies-- if not, my point is simply this: did those who changed your oil actually fill it? As I mentioned in my prior post, more than once immediately after an oil change I've found the level to be low....

[Chuck Wintle]

I've asked this once, I'm asking again: Did you check your oil immediately after your oil changes?

I'm curious because what we know is: the first quart of oil missing was 2000 miles immediately after the first oil change, and the second quart of oil missing was 1000 miles after the second oil change?

What I/we don't know is, after YOU topped off the oil and assured the pan was full, how many miles did it take to burn ANOTHER quart of oil?

If you've mentioned this and I missed it, my apologies-- if not, my point is simply this: did those who changed your oil actually fill it? As I mentioned in my prior post, more than once immediately after an oil change I've found the level to be low....
I would add as a caveat to have the car on a level area and check when the engine is cold as it takes some time for ut all to drain back to the oil pan.

[Jim Becker]

Relative to the "one quart in 1000 miles"...that doesn't mean it WILL use that much. It merely means that if a particular vehicle does require more oil, the manufacturer is saying that it's within spec to use up to one quart in 1000 miles. They will not entertain any remediation if the usage doesn't exceed that.

[Andrew Joiner]

I've asked this once, I'm asking again: Did you check your oil immediately after your oil changes?

I'm curious because what we know is: the first quart of oil missing was 2000 miles immediately after the first oil change, and the second quart of oil missing was 1000 miles after the second oil change?

What I/we don't know is, after YOU topped off the oil and assured the pan was full, how many miles did it take to burn ANOTHER quart of oil?

If you've mentioned this and I missed it, my apologies-- if not, my point is simply this: did those who changed your oil actually fill it? As I mentioned in my prior post, more than once immediately after an oil change I've found the level to be low....
See my post #42.
I check dipsticks on all our cars after an oil change. I'm concerned about overfilling too as we had an issue with that 13 years ago in other cars. I didn't check oil at all in the new car until after the first oil change at the dealer.

[Jim Andrew]

Our Toyotas don't use oil, but I bought a new 7130 JD tractor in '08, and it finally quit using oil last year.

[Ben Helmich]

Relative to the "one quart in 1000 miles"...that doesn't mean it WILL use that much. It merely means that if a particular vehicle does require more oil, the manufacturer is saying that it's within spec to use up to one quart in 1000 miles. They will not entertain any remediation if the usage doesn't exceed that.
Jim, you said it better than I did. And let that motor set for 10 of 15 minutes before you check it. And don’t check it too too often. These things can drive you crazy.

[Tom Stenzel]

I will disagree with your suggestion to run thicker oil.:eek: That very likely would void the warranty if they needed an excuse to do that. Also the top ring is a compression ring. the oil control ring(s) are lower down on piston body..

+2 along with Andy. I might try it on an older engine knowing if it breaks it's on me. But not on a car under the manufacturer's warranty.

Engines with phased camshafts can trip the malfunction light if the wrong oil is used. When you come in and the code is read the mechanics will know right away what the problem is.

-Tom

[Eric Danstrom]

...it's within spec to use up to one quart in 1000 miles. They will not entertain any remediation if the usage doesn't exceed that.
Not all burn 1qt per 1000miles. But a small percentage do. And anyone that thinks there's a remedy hasn't read the T&Cs signed at the time of purchase. Lemon laws are very clear and specific....

[michael langman]

I was going from memory on the ring positions Chuck, and realize you are right . Oil ring on the bottom. Thanks for the correction.

I have always gone to a heavier oil after 75000 miles in my cars and never had a problem. It was common practice in the past. Though newer engines do not wear as quickly a older engines did.

But I would not want someone to have warranty issues over it. I doubt it would damage an engine though. These oil burning engines already do have a problem.

[Jim Becker]

Not all burn 1qt per 1000miles. But a small percentage do. And anyone that thinks there's a remedy hasn't read the T&Cs signed at the time of purchase. Lemon laws are very clear and specific....

We are in agreement...please see:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?274075-Is-it-Normal-for-a-New-Car-to-Burn-Oil&p=2924922#post2924922

[Doug Dawson]

I have always gone to a heavier oil after 75000 miles in my cars and never had a problem. It was common practice in the past. Though newer engines do not wear as quickly a older engines did.

But I would not want someone to have warranty issues over it. I doubt it would damage an engine though. These oil burning engines already do have a problem.

Newer engines using 0w-20 oil (which only comes in a synthetic,) would stand a good chance of being damaged by oil starvation if you substituted in a heavier oil like 5w-30. The oil passages were designed for the thinner oil.

It's not like the old days when you could replace 5w-30 by 10w-40 or (gadzooks!) 20w-50 over an oil control issue.

BTW, if the "low oil" light appears on the dash, that means "stop driving now". Never mind the Mythbusters(?) episode where they drove 25 miles on an engine with no oil in it. That was in San Francisco, where you could open the hood of your VeeDub and find that you'd been driving for several years with no engine at all.

[michael langman]

Interesting information Doug. This new technology is changing, and happening faster and faster these days. You keep a new car for 10 to 15 years and in that time many things come and go.
And it kinda makes me feel like I am standing still, and alone, in place.

[Jeff Ramsey]

I drive a 2010 Subaru Outback that now has approx. 225,000 miles. It uses maybe 3/4 quart of oil every 5,000 miles. Last time I had it in for a torque converter replacement repair, I brought this subject up with the service manager at the Subaru dealership. I work with someone who owns a newer Outback, and he said it goes through 1 quart every 3,000 miles. The service manager told me Subaru had a recall for a piston ring problem for that range of years, and generally since Subaru changed over to recommending (requiring?) synthetic 0W/20 oil, their engines use more oil. I will keep repairing my 2010.

[Bill Jobe]

Take it to the dealer, get it documented. Do it now. You never know how many warranties Subaru has on it and when they all expire. Not everything will be covered for 100K. They may do an oil consultation test. If so, follow their directions to the letter. They will likely have an oil consumption spec somewhere. For Ford, the spec used to be about 1qt per 1000 miles. That’s very generous, but you have to have some kind of spec to decide when to go into a motor and spend the manufacturer’s money on a repair. Oil consumption is uncommon but not unusual. Some cars just use oil. The question is always is it bad enough to spend thousands to make it go away. Make sure you’re using the proper weight oil. Other things can cause oil consumption also, including PCV systems, turbos, and oil leaks. How much oil consumption is “right” or what is “warrantable” may be two different things. I spent about 20yrs as a Ford service tech. I’ve been through this a few times as the tech.

It should take exactly how many dollars the manufacturer has to pay to make it right.
That kind of oil consumption is unacceptable by any standard.
My son bought a new Dodge about 15 years or so ago and it used a quart every 1,200 miles. He fought them tooth and nail, but in the end, Dodge was off the hook for building junk.
And I 2nd (or 3rd?) Kev's suggestion about checking the oil right after a change.

This whole thing is bizzar to my thinking. What if the car dogtracked, or the paint started fading and flaking off right away, or the air worked as needed part of the time, or the transmission would skip a bit now and then?
They sold you junk and getting the word out like this is a good thing.

[Alex Zeller]

I had a 2010 Impreza that didn't burn a drop of oil. I sold it before 50k miles due to other problems so I can't say that down the road it would have developed an issue. The oil ring is actually two thin rings with a spacer between them. I don't have the shop manual but I suspect that the two gaps aren't suppose to line up with each other and they should both face upwards, say one at 2 or 3 o'clock while the other at 9 or 10. I'm wondering if the person who installed the rings did it correctly. It's odd that you didn't see the problem until after the first oil change unless Subaru uses some sort of special break in oil. I guess it could be a bad valve seal. I don't think I would accept a car that burns a quart of oil every 1000 miles. At $8 a quart that's going to add up. Plus if you keep it for a long time, say 200k miles it could start to burn up to twice that amount long after the warranty is up.