Help identifying a thickness planer

[Timothy Robinson]

Hey Creekers: I just acquired a massive-heavy thickness planer and cannot figure out what make it is. It was a school machine and the labeling is gone. Pictures follow...408577408578408580408581 Can anyone help? The casting/stamp in the fourth pic is the only number I found on the thing.

[Scott Snavely]

Resembles 1940's or 1950's era Belsaw planer.

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/104-A.jpg

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/3690-B.jpg

After a bit of looking, a Belsaw 910 from the 1950's.

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/31763-C.jpg

Look at the VintageMachinery website under photo index by manufacturer (Belsaw Machinery Company).

That is my best guess.

scott

[Matt Day]

If not that maybe a Parks?

[Allan Speers]

I agree with Belsaw.

Probably their "Rustomatic 5000" model. :)

That's gonna' be SOME restore job! - But Belsaws are supposed to be extemely good machines. Almost up there with Powermatic and General, and much nicer than Parks, etc. (As long as it's not one of their "planer molder" models, which I don't think it is.)

When you get this finished, the before / after pics will be something to see.

[Bill Dufour]

Not the 12 inch Parks.
Bill D

[Bradley Gray]

Looks like a Belsaw to me too.

Matt, I think you are remembering that Belsaw and Parks both made 12" planers for the Craftsman label. The Parks all have oil bath gear drive and bed rollers.

[Matt Day]

I think you’re right Bradley. Thanks

[Bill Dufour]

width? plus some more words tomake minimum

[Richard Coers]

Holy crap! How you going to get those elevation screws working again? Did they store it outside? Massive heavy? I guess you've never seen a Yates American, or any other commercial machine from that era. Belsaw always advertised in the back of Popular Mechanics. Then latter Woodmaster, who also advertised in magazines like that, started making an almost identical machine in 1980..

[Timothy Robinson]

I actually own a belsaw planer/molder/sander which I have never turned on (It is stored in another county) I got this beast out of a junk pile compiled from county schools. The base might be shop-built (IDK). Would be easier to handle if separated. I am not looking at it right now but I think it may be 15". I wasn't aware of Foley Belsaw making institutional machines. In this lot was a Walker/Turner 6" jointer and a Powermatic sander (disc and belt) and a Keller h-beam oil-bath hacksaw as well as a Powermatic 87 bandsaw (pieces of which I'm trying to sell over in the classifieds https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?273848-Guts-of-the-old-87&p=2921063#post2921063). Looks like the threads are pretty much gone as they're so fine, but Belsaw still sells some of the parts. Might be able to get a machinist friend to make them. @Allan Speers...is there some particular Belsaw model that is complete junk so as to be called rustomatic 5000? And thanks Scott Snavely for the ID help. I'll try the site you refer to.

[Timothy Robinson]

Bill, I think it's 15" (I'm not near it now) and what does "more words tomake minimum" mean?

[Timothy Robinson]

How you going to get those elevation screws working again? Sprayed blaster PB on them and I intend to wire brush them but I think the scale is as deep as the threads. Pretty sure I am not going to bring it to pristine but if I can make it functional that is a plus. As I stated elsewhere, I bought it in a pile of scrap. Just wish they hadn't dumped the stuff out of a trailer in a pile.

[Jon Nuckles]

Bill, I think it's 15" (I'm not near it now) and what does "more words tomake minimum" mean?

I'm not Bill, but can explain. The system here won't accept a post that is shorter than a certain number of characters. He just added the bit you quoted to get above that minimum.

[Joe Jensen]

A friend had a Belsaw 12" planer/moulder many years ago and it did not have a pressure bar or chip beaker. As a result it was a marginal planer.

[Allan Speers]

A friend had a Belsaw 12" planer/moulder many years ago and it did not have a pressure bar or chip beaker. As a result it was a marginal planer.


Yes, like I said, the planer-molders aren't very good. Way too many compromises in order to make the molding part work. (The same with Woodmaster) - But the ones that were just planers had all the desired features, proper distance for roller to cutter, and held adjustment pretty well They didn't have the vibration damping of a PM100, and evidently weren't as easy to adjust but they were very good.

Anyway, that's what I've read. I never actually owned one.

[Timothy Robinson]

Well, I found that single part number in picture four in the parts list for my Belsaw model 912 so it appears that this is indeed a Belsaw.

[Timothy Robinson]

A friend had a Belsaw 12" planer/moulder many years ago and it did not have a pressure bar or chip beaker. As a result it was a marginal planer. Joe, can you describe the pressure bar and chip breaker? I was looking at a massive Powermatic last week (24" I think) that had a bar with loose 1/4" wide weights which ride lightly on the workpiece. Is that one of the components you're talking about? Also, the same day, I looked at a Woodmaster (stepchild of the foley/belsaw) and saw a plate which seemed to catch the chips and direct them into a vacuum plenum. I might be able to fabricate something for these if y'all think they would enhance the performance.

[Timothy Robinson]

Update on the belsaw restoration...I'm getting it apart and finding broken bits where it was mishandled. Cast iron is wonderful for its strength but it IS brittle. A few places on the flange/frame where it mounts to the base are broken. Gonna need some welding. Also, I talked to the guy who has carried on the belsaw company out in CA. He was a wealth of parts info but it was like trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant. (most of it blows you away). He says that the bearings for the cutter head rotate out (not a press-fit) and I have not figured out how to get hold of them to do that. Any ideas?
One of them is broken but he says he has some left. At what point does one say "enough". I bought it at scrap prices but it might get more expensive than just buying a new Dewalt 12". Here's a picture of the bearing thing...409559

[Timothy Robinson]

Any ideas on fabricating a chip-breaker? It appears to be 10 or 8-gauge sheet which is bent on a brake and welded but I have no drawing to go by. Anyone have a belsaw who would be willing to give specs?

[Bill Dufour]

I will have to think of the correct name but those may be eccentric lock or cam lock bearings. Some name like that. Easy to remove one step down from taper lock.

Bill D.

On edit;

https://www.edtcorp.com/docs/eccentric-install-chart.pdf

[Timothy Robinson]

Thanks Bill, that pdf is gold. Squares with what someone at OWWM.org told me. I'd never heard of such a thing.

[Timothy Robinson]

Doesn't look like a chip-breaker was OEM on this particular machine. it has a scoop built into the hood. Don't know how effective it is at deflecting the debris but it doesn't seem like it would be any use at all used in conjunction with a vacuum dust removal system. Everything's goin' on the floor with this baby.

[Tom Bender]

If it's a planer you want this may be the hard and expensive way to go.

[Timothy Robinson]

410922410921I managed to dent up the housing removing the eccentric cam bearings so I'm looking into sources. Anyone have a good (read 'cheap') bearing source? the specs are "FAFNIR RA108" bearing and collar. I'm told that Timken bought Fafnir but I don't find this number in their online listings.

[Timothy Robinson]

I'm not too pleased with the castings on this beast...There are voids and it appears that the ribs on the underside of the platten were molded by sticking some half-round sticks to the bottom of the platten pattern and ignoring what happens when you get to a corner.
But it is de-rusted, painted up, welded, supplied with new bearings and is undergoing reassembly. PIctures to come.

[Zac wingert]

Looking forward to pictures. I’m working on a restoration and need inspiration