Mandrel

[Bernie Weishapl]

As I will be going to Denver Sunday to pick up my lathe :D I have a question on pen turning. I know I will have to get a #2 MT mandrel. My question is I see there are several different bushings for all kinds of pens. Does a person need all these bushings? If so can you get a asssortment? I just wasn't sure and from the info I have read off the net it is not clear. I haven't found anything that clearly says if you need seperate bushings for each different type pen you turn or if a basic set is enough. I did notice and couldn't find much info either about the bushing having to be put on a certain way on the mandrel with the blanks. I have just got done reading posts on mandrels. Should a guy when he buys a mandrel buy all of his stuff from that company to make sure bushings fit, etc.? By the way my books, tools and DVD's are not here yet.

I will pickup the 3 chisel assortment from Sears for pen turning and that should get me started. I have the 8 piece chisel set ordered from HF. I figured I can learn with those and then move up. I also went out and cut some 3/4" X 3/4" X 5 1/2" blacks of walnut, cherry and ash this morning. I am in the process of making a vise to hold the blanks for drilling.

[Dave Bonde]

Most all pens require a specific set of bushings - I would not reccomend getting a "starter set" I would look at the pens you are interested in making and buy the bushings for that pen and build your set of bushings that way. Good luck if you have other quetions just ask you will get the answers you need. Dave

[Ron Ainge]

Bernie

when you get to Denver you could get all of the information you need for either Rockler or Woodcraft, they both sell pen supplies and have people in the stores that turn them. the Rockler store is on Colorado ave. and the Woodcraft stor is on Tarmac in the Tech center. if you need additional help drop me a private message and i will be glad to help any way i can. i live in the denver area.

[Andy Hoyt]

Bernie - One thing I discovered after I had made the intial plunge into pen turning is that all the regular purveyors of the supplies (Rockler, Woodcraft, CSA, etc) sell pretty much the same stuff, but each sells it in a different language. Some sell by a unique "repackaging" number, some by a specification, and some by a description. I found this to be very frustrating.

I think they do so to ensure you come back to their store when it's time to make a second purchase as they're counting on a degree of cluelessness on the part of the customer - one who doesn't want to end up with drill bits, mandrels, and such that have limited future application. That pretty much defined me.

Once you're deep into things, the workaround and compatibilty issues go away but in the beginning it provides a big headache. At least that was my experience.

[Bob Noles]

Bernie,

I could be very wrong here and probably am, but from what I understand, you do not need "pen" turning chisels. I have been told that the regular chisels will be everything needed to get you started. Just wait on HF, I received mine yesterday :)

Y'all please correct me if I am wrong here. Don't mind a bit as I have no idea yet about what I'm doing and I'm probably the last to be giving advice :eek:

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for the advice Dave, Ron and Andy. I have found in my woodworking experience if you buy all these kits, etc. you have stuff laying around that gets thrown away from not being used or needed. I just don't want to go and buy a bunch of stuff that is going to collect dust.

I know my lathe will take #2 MT. So as far as mandrels go should a guy buy two, the 7 MM and the larger one or like the bushings just buy for what you think you will turn? I know I will also need a 7 MM drill bit as I don't have one. Is a brad point bit better?

Hey Andy by the way I turned on my metal lathe in my clockshop a dime about 11" in diameter. I will use this in the Itsy Bitsy contest. Does that count?

[Keith Christopher]

Bernie,

I have the 7 and 10 mm bushings, I like the cigar pens though the look and feel (shows more of the interesting parts of the wood :) ) But I have several others, because I may want to make some of these things some day (i.e. bottle stopper, perfume atomizer...) An by all means get a brad point bit. They will save you so much hassle/burning. But as you can see in my other post care in the more exotic harder woods needs to be taken.


Keith

[John Hart]

I'd like to chime in on one thing Bernie...

Are you sure you are getting a #2MT Mandrel? Or are you getting a #2 MT Taper, then getting a mandrel that screws into the taper? This becomes important with different sized mandrels for different pen kits too. I know that I use the same MT2 Taper with all my mandrels. Course this may be the difference between retailers too.

[Bernie Weishapl]

John it is probably just my terminalogy. The economical ones I looked at in the catalogs are just a shaft screwed into a #2 MT. The other ones I have seen are a #2 MT with a 1/4" collet and collet nut and mandrel shaft with brass nut. This one you can make any length of shaft you want by loosening the collet nut and sliding the shaft in or out. The first one is a #2 MT, shaft, knurled brass nut and compression stop nut. From what I have read the compression stop nut is for when you do like a keychain and don't need the full length of the mandrel shaft. Thanks again for the help.

[Andy Hoyt]

Bernie - you want this which I grabbed this off the Woodcraft site. They call it a Professional Mandrel Kit - $30.

27252

The picture actually stinks becasue it's showing two different morse tapers and with the mandrel shafts in two different positions, (This is along the same notion as my earlier post about langauge, and in this case they're tryting to get one image to do quadruple duty without any further explanation) The difference being that the center rod (which is the actual mandrel or shaft that everything gets mounted on) can slide way out for long stuff (B) and way in (A) for short stuff. In use I like to make the shaft as short as possible which aids in elimination of shaft deflection. Once you have the shaft at the correct length, just tighten the collet nut against the other fixed nut.

The only thing you have to be sure of when ordering is to match the Morse Taper Number of your new lathe to the correct model of mandrel. Your new lathe likely has a MT#2 (or MT2 or Number Two Morse Taper - they all say the same thing). Were I in your shoes, I'd wait til I could put my hands on the machine before I began amassing stuff for it.

You only need one of these - you can only turn one at at time! There is no efficiency in having more DAMHIKT.

Morse Tapers don't screw into anything - they slide in and stay put due to a friction fit.

Bob is right, no special tools needed. I've turned pens to very satisfactory conclusion with nothing more than a 3/4" roughing gouge.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks Andy. That is the picture of what I was looking at. I like the idea of it being versitile where if you are doing a keychain unit you can shorten it up. I also work with metal lathes and don't like anything very long sticking out beyond the chuck. I downloaded the manual of the lathe I got and it says headstock and tailstock are #2 MT. So I was going to pickup at Woodcraft while in Denver Sunday a 3 chisel pen kit, some slimline pen kits and the #2 MT Mandrel kit you showed for $30 so I could play errrrr I mean learn to turn till my other orders (HF 8 set of chisels, 2 books and Bill's DVD) come in which will probably be the end of next week. I also got that free DVD from PSI. Don't need the wood blanks as I cut a bunch today out of walnut, ash and locust. Also made a wood vise for holding blanks for drilling. Drilled a couple of dowel pieces and it should work fine.

Thanks again one and all. I will have more questions.

[Jim Bell]

Hi Bernie,
One suggestion, what ever bushings you buy, get at least 2 sets especially in 7mm. It is not uncommon to bump the bushings with a skew or gouge when starting out. After several "bumps" the bushing diameter lessens and will reflect in your wood to metal dimension on your pens,
Jim

[Chris Barton]

You have gotten some great advice here but, I will differ with one thing. If pen turning is something you really like you will probably want more than one mandrel. The reason is for finishing. If you have 2 mandrels you can apply lacquer finishes to a pen on one and do the buffing and such while you begin another on a second mandrel. Just my thoughts...

[John Hart]

I do what Chris does with multiple mandrels....But I've seen folks rig up long bolts to do the finishing as well.

[Blake McCully]

Bernie,
Great advice from all. So, here's my take. First of all, I'll be mentioning Berea Hardwoods often, please understand that I have no connection with them, just like most of their products.

Each pen kit "style" use proprietary bushings. For instance the 7mm Euros use a particular set, the double twist Euros use a completely different type of bushing. The Euro style rollerball and fountain pens use yet another different bushing. I think you know where I'm going. In my experience, the only time you can use the same bushings are within styles, in other words, most if not all of the rollerball kits can also be used to make fountain pens. The bushings for the rollerball will work with the fountain pens, since the primary difference is at the nib end where the appropriate refill is placed.

A far as mandrels go. I have two of the Woodcraft Pro mandrels. I was fairly happy with them until I got some Berea mandrels. IMHO, the Berea mandrels are superior to the other. The problem that you will encounter with bushings, mandrels and such, is the possiblity that the bushings you get with say CSUSA may not work on the Woodcraft or Berea mandrels. This is what I have heard although I haven't noticed this problem.

The Woodcraft mandrel is equivalent to the Berea "A" mandrel. It is basically a 1/4" shaft. If you use Berea kits, you need to be aware if the bushings needed are for the "A" or "B" mandrel. I have two of the Berea mandrels with the "B" shaft as well as an extra "A" shaft. The great thing about the Woodcraft Pro mandrel is that you can adjust the length of the shaft and the shafts are replaceable. If you decide to get this mandrel, it would not be a bad idea to get a couple of replacement shafts. I have had problems with the shaft on this mandrel bending, or getting out of round. I have used the Berea mandrels for about a year and a half and haven't had that problem.


As for how you use the bushings, once you get some and look at them, it will be fairly evident. Some bushings have a lip that goes into the brass tube, others have no lip and just rest up agains the blanks. Hence, the need to square you blanks well.

Now that I've taken up all your turning time by reading this, have fun and ask before you jump, isn't that something like look before you leap?:confused:

[RL Johnson]

I would like to add one thing about the professional mandrel. The adjustment nut can be a knuckle buster and is much larger in diameter than the fixed mandrels, especially for new pen turners. If you decide to go that way you might cover it with some tape until you develope some safe turning habits. Good luck in your pens turning, it is a very satisfying experience completing that first pen.
As an aside, I don't want to stir up the skew versus gouge controversy:D but pens lend themselves to learning how to handle a skew well. I hate sanding and the skew lets me start with a finer grit and also lets me cut much closer to the bushing finished diameter. On the other side if I practiced with a gouge more then I would probably be more proficient than I present am:p .