Which plane to get

[Ryan Haugle]

Hi all,
I'm trying to decide which plane to get. My two choices are either the veritas LA Jack, or a lie-nielsen rabbet block plane..

I currently have a cheap, Kobalt (Lowe's brand) block plane, a Stanley no 4, 5 and 7. The 4 and 7 were planes I won at an auction. They aren't in great condition, but work. The 5 is a newer style, plastic handle.. kind of junky sadly. Bought this one before I really knew what I was looking for/doing.

What do y'all think?

[Kevin Hampshire]

Ryan,

If you could describe what type of work you are doing or expect to be doing with your planes, it might help guide the inputs you get.

Firstly, those are both really nice planes but they’re very different from each other. How you’ll use them may drive you towards one or the other.



On another note, you can replace the plastic tote and knob with a shop made wooden version. Veritas/Lee Valley has a free plan for making a No.5 tote. Follow that plan, and it’s actually quite easy. The Veritas plan has you drill the first hole while the block is still square. That’s one of the techniques that makes their plan easier.

[Jim Chan]

Simple, just get both. :)

Only you can answer this question really. Which are you most frustrated by? Upgrade that one. Personally my LN block plane is one of the most used planes in my shop. I'd like to get the rabbet version at some point as well.

Alternatively, if you find the kobalt and no 5 are passable, you might also consider some joinery planes. A shoulder plane and router are very useful and will help you accomplish tasks you cant do with your current collection.

The LA Jack works decently as a shooter, and having several blades with different bevel angles is nice for difficult grain. All depends on what you want to do though.

[Warren Mickley]

Welcome to the forum, Ryan. I don't think you want to buy either of these tools. They are each a lot of money for something that is just a gimmick. I would recommend a wooden jack plane, or a t least a double iron plane. And instead of a dinky rabbet block plane, get a Stanley 78 or equivalent, something you can really hold with both hands.

[Frederick Skelly]

Ryan,

If you could describe what type of work you are doing or expect to be doing with your planes, it might help guide the inputs you get.

Firstly, those are both really nice planes but they’re very different from each other. How you’ll use them may drive you towards one or the other.

Hi Ryan. A belated welcome to the Creek. Glad you've joined us! I agree with Kevin. Please tell us a bit about what kind of work you like/want to do.

I own both of those planes. The Jack is a nice all-around capability tool. You'll get different opinions on the rabbet block. I like mine and use it for joinery. Others don't see it as all that useful. Some of that depends on what other tools and skills one has, as well as personal preference. I do sometimes use the rabbett block as a "normal" block plane - there are just times it's width and heft make it the right block plane for the job. But for a general-use block plane, I usually reach for my LN102. (Lee Valley makes a couple nice, small blocks too, but I don't own one.)

Fred

[Tony Zaffuto]

I've got many, many handtools (wife of nearly 40 years buys me stuff for holidays that I like, but don't always use). I havea LN low angle jack, used it for a few years, and now it gathers dust. My most used planes? A LN #4, a jointer and lately, either a Bedrock #5 or Bailey #5-1/2. Also, my block planes, my 78, router plane and my Clifton #3.

Look for what commonly apears at flea markets or yard sales: these are the planes that were mostly used and now available for re-sale.

[Kurtis Johnson]

Welcome to the forum, Ryan. I don't think you want to buy either of these tools. They are each a lot of money for something that is just a gimmick. I would recommend a wooden jack plane, or at least a double iron plane. And instead of a dinky rabbet block plane, get a Stanley 78 or equivalent, something you can really hold with both hands.I'd tend to agree. These, if not gimmicky, I'd sure call specialty. Save the specialty stuff for much later, down the road.

An "apron" block plane would be a better pick. This is a low angle plane you can stick in an apron or pocket, ready to use all the time. A large shoulder plane would be a consideration too.

There's not a plane I'd want a plastic handle on less than the jack. That's a plane you'll get hot and sweaty using and will surely get blisters. What would concern me more is what else is fundamentally wrong with a plane with a plastic handle. I imagine there are exceptions. What brand is it? If it's a Millers Falls "Buck Rogers" era, for example, it's probably fundamentally sound. (Not sure there was such a thing in a No. 5.) How about some photos?

[Mark Hennebury]

You can buy all of the planes in the world, and they will all be on no use to you at all if you don't understand the principles of how and why a plane works. Or you can take a $50. flee market junker plane and make it work like a custom made $5000. exotic dream plane, if you understand planes.

I suggest you take an old smoother and learn how to set it up and use it, then maybe a small block plane. You may find that you don't need any more. At least you will know which ones you need for doing the work that you do.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Ryan and welcome to the Creek. Your location isn't shown in your profile. If you are in the Portland, OR area you are welcome to come give a test drive on my low angle Jack even though it is a Lie Nielsen version.

My main reason for purchasing the LA Jack was for shooting.

As others have mentioned it is next to impossible to recommend your next plane. As to your current fleet of planes you mention:


They aren't in great condition, but work.

Many of my planes look like they were on the loosing end of a street fight. But they can hold their own up against any other when it comes to the work they can do. If yours are any less than great at their job, this may help:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

Many times the problems encountered with a plane can be cured by sharpening the blade.

Both of the planes you mention are useful planes but are both rather specialized. The LA Jack is often favored by folks who work a lot of gnarly grained wood for the ease of changing blades for a different angle of attack. For me a standard plane seems to do pretty well for my work.

The swirling grain around knots create some of the most difficult areas to smooth without tearing out hunks of wood. With care, a very sharp blade and a plane set to very light cuts the area can be smoothed:

408315

This is a piece of local fir 3"X8"X7' from a tree my neighbor took down and then milled with a chainsaw.

You also may live near another member who would be happy to have you visit to test drive their planes and maybe even be able to help you set up the ones you already have to their full potential.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Corsair C-5 Jack plane, in pictures..
408316
Just a jack plane...
408317
Cambered iron peeking out of the wide mouth...even a Hock iron would fit through...sole is flat enough for use as a Jack plane..
408318
Cambered iron....NO, I do not shape the chipbreaker to match....works quite well as is...
408319
For some reason, I had no trouble with this frog being not square to the opening....

Hey...for about $8 out the door, made a great cambered jack plane, never intended to be a smoother, was no need to. It can flatten rough lumber, or cupped/bowed lumber quite well.

[Ryan Haugle]

Wow, thanks for all the info everyone...

I'm still young in the wood world.. so I'd like to get into more traditional joinery, which is why I was thinking the rabbet block. Currently, I make things for friends and family, nothing specific. I'm trying to get away from the pocketholes and into classic wood working.

It won't let me upload any pictures yet sadly.

Also, I live in the Houston area, north of town.

All of my current planes are Stanley/Bailey and the block is a Kobalt from Lowe's

[Ryan Haugle]

408321

The rusty one in the middle is a mystery plane. I haven't cleaned that one up yet

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I'm going to suggest an alternative, to wit, the LN 60 1/2 low angle block plane. I have many hand planes, from standard to specialized, but find myself reaching for and using the 60 1/2 on almost every project. The adjustable mouth makes changing the cut very quick and easy. While it excels on end grain, it's very useful on long grain as well, especially when chamfering an edge. While it certainly is important to match your tools to the work you do, you'll find that the 60 1/2 will be a plane that is integral for whatever it is you're doing.

[Ryan Haugle]

I'm going to suggest an alternative, to wit, the LN 60 1/2 low angle block plane. I have many hand planes, from standard to specialized, but find myself reaching for and using the 60 1/2 on almost every project. The adjustable mouth makes changing the cut very quick and easy. While it excels on end grain, it's very useful on long grain as well, especially when chamfering an edge. While it certainly is important to match your tools to the work you do, you'll find that the 60 1/2 will be a plane that is integral for whatever it is you're doing.

So help me with this.. the rabbet block plane I'm looking at is the LN - 60 1/2, what's the negatives between the rabbit and the standard block? I would think the rabbet is "a little better" since it can be a block and a rabbet plane..?

[Robert Engel]

The rabbet block is intended for any application where a shoulder plane can be used, in fact you could think of it as a very wide shoulder plane. It’s my go to for tuning up tenons over 2”

The only issue using is like a block plane is you will get plane tracks on wider surfaces. Other than that it can be a dual purpose tool.

That said, I have both the planes you’ve listed.

Of the two, the rabbet block plane is more useful to me personally.

I originally bought the la jack with hotdog attachment for use with a shooting board, but alas I find it too lightweight and too hard on my hands even with attachment.

Aside from those two have you thought about a 4 1/2? I really live my LN 4 1/2 especially for smoothing faces.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Ryan,

You're right, they're both 60 1/2 block planes, but they're very different. The one I'm referring to and noted in my comment is the one with the adjustable mouth. Check out the LN website for the particulars of each. I don't have or ever used the 60 1/2 rabbet version, but I do have both the right and left 140 skew block planes which can be used as rabbet planes and many other things. In my opinion, the 60 1/2 rabbet block plane is kind of a compromise of many planes and not particularly versatile. Caveat emptor.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I don't know if they ever hold their hand tool events in Houston, but a great way to test drive all LN tools is to attend one. LN reps are there to demonstrate the tools and assist you in using them. Great way to meet and connect with other area woodworker's as well. It's dangerous though; I've spent a lot of money as a result. :)

[Ryan Haugle]

The rabbet block is intended for any application where a shoulder plane can be used, in fact you could think of it as a very wide shoulder plane. It’s my go to for tuning up tenons over 2”

The only issue using is like a block plane is you will get plane tracks on wider surfaces. Other than that it can be a dual purpose tool.

That said, I have both the planes you’ve listed.

Of the two, the rabbet block plane is more useful to me personally.

I originally bought the la jack with hotdog attachment for use with a shooting board, but alas I find it too lightweight and too hard on my hands even with attachment.

Aside from those two have you thought about a 4 1/2? I really live my LN 4 1/2 especially for smoothing faces.

The rusty one in the middle of my picture is between a 4 and 5, so I'm guessing it's a 4 1/2 , but there are no markings that I can find. I need to take it apart and clean it up, then hopefully I can find something.

Maybe I need to ditch the LA Jack, and get a block and a shoulder plane

[William Fretwell]

The 60 1/2 block plane is fine but not for trimming tenons. Also consider the shoulder plane. I have the LV large shoulder plane and found it became one of my favourites.
Your two ‘rusty’ workhorses can be improved quite easily.

[Jim Koepke]

The rusty one in the middle of my picture is between a 4 and 5, so I'm guessing it's a 4 1/2 , but there are no markings that I can find. I need to take it apart and clean it up, then hopefully I can find something.

Maybe I need to ditch the LA Jack, and get a block and a shoulder plane

The width of the blade will tell you if it is a #4-1/2. The #4 & 5 have a 2" wide blade. The #4-1/2 has a 2-3/8" blade.

There isn't enough detail in the image to tell, but the lateral adjuster looks to be of the folded over type.

It also looks like there may be a mound around the base of the knob.

More images with a clearer view of the lateral adjuster and other components would help in the identification.

jtk

[Ryan Haugle]

The width of the blade will tell you if it is a #4-1/2. The #4 & 5 have a 2" wide blade. The #4-1/2 has a 2-3/8" blade.

There isn't enough detail in the image to tell, but the lateral adjuster looks to be of the folded over type.

It also looks like there may be a mound around the base of the knob.

More images with a clearer view of the lateral adjuster and other components would help in the identification.

jtk

Yes, that picture is terrible.. I will get it pulled apart this week and post some help pics!

[Kurt Cady]

Go with a LV low angle jack and a LN 60.5. Both of those planes you’d have to pry from my cold dead hands. However, both planes - especially that block - is a matter of feel. You need to try them out. Some people with large hands love the LV block. I hate it - too wide. The LN is perfect except for not having PMV11 steel. The LV low angle jack has an amazing low center of gravity. It isn’t a gimmick plane. Warren thinks anything made after 1850 is a gimmick. It’s a good beginner plane that is manufactured to a high spec and can easily be your shooting plane like it is mine. And, as a beginner plane, it can teach you about hand tool use and guide what you may want later. An extra blade is an easy add on at a later date to give even more flexibility. It is not the best plane for everything out there like some people like to claim but it very very serviceable at many many tasks. They pop up used in great condition around here once in awhile.

I wouldnt get into the joinery planes until you know this hobby is for sure something you want to pursue. And the rabbet block would be far far down the list.

[Jack Frederick]

The LN #62 LA Jack and 60 1/2 are my go to planes. I have the toothed blade for the jack and was surprised at how well it worked for me. The adj mouth of the 60 1/2 is the big difference. If you buy those or your rabbit, they are excellent tools I don’t think you will regret buying. I don’t know, but you might even find someone who has one gathering dust...? I bought a #7 Stanley jointer at an antique store last year for very short money. After cleaning and tuning it does a really good job. I go in there on occasion looking for a couple old Bailey’s and will continue to do so.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi all,
I'm trying to decide which plane to get. My two choices are either the veritas LA Jack, or a lie-nielsen rabbet block plane..

I currently have a cheap, Kobalt (Lowe's brand) block plane, a Stanley no 4, 5 and 7. The 4 and 7 were planes I won at an auction. They aren't in great condition, but work. The 5 is a newer style, plastic handle.. kind of junky sadly. Bought this one before I really knew what I was looking for/doing.
.
What do y'all think?


Ryan, I’ll add my opinion ...

The Stanley 4, 5, and 7 are the three bench planes that count most. Take some time to clean them up and tune them to work as best you can. Remove all rust and, if necessary (if they are pitted or very out-of-flat), replace the blades with Veritas PM-V11. Get a second blade for the #5 anyway. Camber one for removing waste, and a straight one for short jointing and narrow edges. Learn to use the chipbreaker to control tearout (David Weaver wrote a great article (http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=newarticles&file=articles_935.shtml) on this). It is possible to turn these planes into superior performers.

I’d get a better block plane. It is a very useful tool for small areas, such as chamfering. If you are trying to keep costs down, look at the LN #102. If you can stretch the budget, the LN 60 1/2 or Veritas DX60.

Many have suggested a LA Jack as your second plane. I would do it differently in your case. A LA Jack is a good plane, and useful for a number of tasks, such as shooting and jointing. I would recommend it if someone was starting out with fewer planes than you have. At this stage I would use your #5 (with a straight blade) or the #7. Either will do a good job as long as the blade is sharp (that should go without saying).

I also would not recommend a shoulder plane. Mortice-and-tenon joints are among the most common joints you will make, but I am not a fan of planes in tuning either shoulders or cheeks (as it requires a fair degree of skill to avoid tilting the plane and removing more waste than you want). The one exception is a router plane, since it will ensure that the cheek is parallel to the face of the stretcher. I would use a chisel for both shoulders (push a medium chisel into the scribed line) and cheeks (use a pencil for high spots and and remove with a wide chisel).

The plane that you most need right now is one for rebates and drawer grooves. So, the Veritas Small Rabbet Plane can do both. Or, look out for a vintage Stanley #78 for the rebates and make your own wooden grooving plane for drawer sides.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jeff Heath]

I don't think there's anything "gimmicky" about a low angle jack plane. I've had my LN version for 20 years, and I think it's an outstanding plane, with multiple uses. The adjustable mouth allows it to be used as you choose.....tightly set for smoothing difficult grain and end grain, or open it up for heavier cuts. You can outfit it with with a 2nd iron, without buying an entire plane, ground at 45°, give or take, to be a high angle smoother for attacking difficult grain. You can also outfit it with a toothing iron for planing burls, crotch figure, and other very difficult-to-plane woods, without creating any tearout. 1 plane, 3 irons, and a lot of versatility at your workbench without having to purchase multiple planes.

I recently used mine to smooth an endgrain cutting board I made as a gift, and it did a really great job on the endgrain, without any tearout at all (edges beveled first).

I have made a complete set of wooden planes for myself, and I, too, prefer wooden planes for my bench work. That being said, there's no wooden plane equivalent that is as versatile, with switching out irons, as the LA jack. It's my favorite, and most used, metal plane.

[andy bessette]

Get a quality low angle block plane with adjustable throat, and a quality shoulder plane about 3/4" wide.

[Jim Koepke]

One thing always becomes clear in a "what plane to buy" thread, everyone loves to spend other people's money.

Ryan, your best move may be to work with the planes you already have and get them working well.

How well does the Kobalt block plane work? It may be a fine user for now.

As for getting away from pocket hole joinery and into more traditional joinery, your money may be better used to purchase some chisels or a joinery saw or two if you do not already have tools that will do these tasks. They do not need to be premium quality to get the job done.

My most expensive tools are the ones with little or no use in my shop.

Don't let the siren song of a new tool take your wallet for a ride.

jtk

[bill epstein]

Ryan, I’ll add my opinion ...

The Stanley 4, 5, and 7 are the three bench planes that count most. Take some time to clean them up and tune them to work as best you can. Remove all rust and, if necessary (if they are pitted or very out-of-flat), replace the blades with Veritas PM-V11. Get a second blade for the #5 anyway. Camber one for removing waste, and a straight one for short jointing and narrow edges. Learn to use the chipbreaker to control tearout (David Weaver wrote a great article (http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=newarticles&file=articles_935.shtml) on this). It is possible to turn these planes into superior performers.

I’d get a better block plane. It is a very useful tool for small areas, such as chamfering. If you are trying to keep costs down, look at the LN #102. If you can stretch the budget, the LN 60 1/2 or Veritas DX60.

Many have suggested a LA Jack as your second plane. I would do it differently in your case. A LA Jack is a good plane, and useful for a number of tasks, such as shooting and jointing. I would recommend it if someone was starting out with fewer planes than you have. At this stage I would use your #5 (with a straight blade) or the #7. Either will do a good job as long as the blade is sharp (that should go without saying).

I also would not recommend a shoulder plane. Mortice-and-tenon joints are among the most common joints you will make, but I am not a fan of planes in tuning either shoulders or cheeks (as it requires a fair degree of skill to avoid tilting the plane and removing more waste than you want). The one exception is a router plane, since it will ensure that the cheek is parallel to the face of the stretcher. I would use a chisel for both shoulders (push a medium chisel into the scribed line) and cheeks (use a pencil for high spots and and remove with a wide chisel).

The plane that you most need right now is one for rebates and drawer grooves. So, the Veritas Small Rabbet Plane can do both. Or, look out for a vintage Stanley #78 for the rebates and make your own wooden grooving plane for drawer sides.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek and I would really get along, I agree with each and every point. That doesn't mean our techniques will work for you, however. You may become the shoulder planing champion of your street simply because using a plane on tenons feels right.

Recently, after decades of using just a Record #4, #7, and the ubiquitous Stanley Block Plane I was enticed by all the talk and video about LA Jacks. You should do as I did and visit a Woodcraft or Rockler or ______ and try the planes you mention. My local Woodcraft let me spend an hour test driving the LA Jacks against my #4 that I brought along, as well as a #5 1/2. I was underwhelmed by both the LN and Wood River LA Jacks; my #4 felt about the same. $2-$300 saved! I did fall victim to the goodness of a Wood River 5 1/2, though which I never knew I needed and took it home.

Decide for yourself.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a shoulder plane in my work, but never for shoulders or tenon cheeks. Both operations are awkwardly done with a plane (use a chisel instead). I find them useful for rabbeted edges as I often make rabbeted edges on an underside face which will be felt and so must be cleanly planed.

Cover the basics first, and cover them well. Those are the tools you will use most often, so if they aren't in good working order you'll find frustrations with the work.

[lowell holmes]

Visit this site:

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/rosewoodplanehandleset.aspx

[Prashun Patel]

What hole are you trying to fill? How and when you use planes in your work is highly personal to your method of working. Identify your need first.

[Rob Luter]

Lots of good suggestions here. May I offer another?

Like many have offered, consider a plane that will offer the greatest utility. I started out with a hardware store block plane similar to what you have. Even well fettled it wasn't good for much but breaking edges. I'd consider a Lie Nielsen #102 or a Lee Valley Apron Plane. It will offer up a couple things. First, it will give you a feel for what a decent plane can do. Secondly, it will be super handy for all sorts of small jobs. I have a #102 and it gets used a bunch.

The second thing I'd do is fettle the daylights out of the #4 you have. Tune it to the enth degree so you have a well functioning small smoother. Do the same with the #5, but camber the blade slightly so it functions as a proper jack.

Now build some stuff. As you prepare stock and run through the build process, what you need will become obvious. That is if you need anything.

When I started my journey I acquired a large number of bench planes I thought I needed but ultimately never used. I just got done selling them off. I wish I'd purchased what I knew I needed versus what I thought I'd needed. Had I spent more time in the shop building things than I did out on rush hunts I'd have been better off for it.

[John Isgren]

I am only a few months ahead of you but I think you have a good start. I also got vintage 4,5 and 7. The 5 had not been touched in years, and the 7 needed some clean up and the 4 had already been tuned. I have not done a full restoration on the 5 and 7 yet but did spend time flattening the back of the blades and sharpening and I am getting great results from them. In addition to the really good threads here, Paul Sellers has a good video on restoring a plane.

At this point I would spend your money on a router plane and a good set of diamond stones. This in addition to some basic chisels will let do almost any type of joinery.

[Carl Beckett]

I have the LA jack, and also a skewed rabbet block plane. I use the skewed block plane more (more often than not reach for my standard bench plane instead of the LA).

The skewed block plane I do use for cleaning up tenons and shoulders and other joinery touchups.

I dont put either one of them at the top of my list. Standard bench planes (couple different sizes). Good standard block plane (but to your point yes I feel a rabbet version can substitute). Then 'for me', I use my small 212 scraper plane a lot. And a 'shoulder plane'. Then I would put the small 'router plane' just behind the skewed block plane in use.

I would put scrapers third on the list (after a block plane).

Of the two, I would use the rabbet block plane more than the LA jack.

But I do a combination of machine plus hand work.