Drum Sanders

[James Tibbetts]

I am looking into a drum sander purchase. I have had good luck with Grizzly products and their G0458Z looks pretty good. 18" open end, variable speed feed.
Belt sanders are not in the budget.
Any thoughts this model or others similar from different makers?
Pros and cons ?

Thanks,
Jim

[Larry Frank]

I am very happy with my Laguna Supermax.

[Ted Baxter]

I have a GO458 that was discontinued not to long after I bought it. I am very unhappy with I used it a week ago for the first time in over six months and had to stop and shove it back against the wall. The belt will not track stright I have worked on it for hours as well as two other people trying to get it to track wright no luck. I have other Grizzly machines that I am happy with but not the GO458 . I don't know what the difference between the GO458 & the GO458Z.

And yes I tried to get Grizzly tech support to help but was told that it must be an operator issues that the machine was fine.

I need to get it out of my shop because I have to walk by it everytime I walk into the shop and I think about how much money I wasted on it

[James Cheever]

I am very happy with my 25x2 SuperMax sander.

[Doug Dawson]

I am very happy with my Laguna Supermax.

Same here, I have the closed-stand 25-50, and it's a great tool. Go with the closed stand if you have the choice, it's very solid. People have talked about having to reinforce the open-stand models. I thought about going open-stand and constructing storage underneath, and I'm glad I punted on that. Get the folding tables, it doesn't take up much space.

[James Tibbetts]

Thanks for the input all.
I think those bigger Lagunas are going to be out of budget range; about double the cost of the Griz. May well be worth it but not feasible right now.

[James Tibbetts]

Hmmmm.. I just read reviews of the 458 on Amazon and they were not impressive. Some mentioned the same run out on the feed belt.
I won't go through the laundry list of complaints but one reviewer was told by Grizzly CS that the defects were addressed in the G0458Z model.
I still have my eyes peeled for one of the older G1066 24" sanders. They pop up for sale every so often.

[James Tibbetts]

Ted, as far as I can tell, the difference in the models is that the Z is the "new and improved" version.
Specs are the same except for the new model having a 4" dust port and it's shipping weight being 65 lbs lighter.

[Tom Dixon]

I have a Steel City 55220 26" Dual Drum sander that I bought before they went out of business a few years back. It works very well and I'm quite happy with it. It looks almost identical to the Delta 31-481 26-Inch Dual Drum Sander (https://www.amazon.com/Delta-Woodworking-31-481-26-Inch-Sander/dp/B00812REL2)
408286

[James Tibbetts]

Looks like a beast Tom. The double drums are a nice plus.
I just have to get those lottery people with the program.

[Gary Petersen]

I've owned a Supermax 16-32 for a year and love it. It has a sensor that automatically slows down the feed belt if you load it too much. It has a digital display for height that I've not found all that useful. Plenty of power and good dust collection.

The only problem I've ever had with it was not getting the sandpaper wrap locked down on one end the first time I used it. That was user error that was easily corrected and hasn't been repeated.

I bought it from Woodcraft. They go on sale for 10% off there often enough.

Gary

[Cary Falk]

James,
I bought a used G0458 from CL about 9 years ago and eventually sold it about 2 years ago when a bought a SuperMax 25-50. The design with the adjustable table height is a more sturdy design. There is less flex at the far end of the drum like you see with the with the moving drum/fixed conveyor. The sand paper tensioner for the drum while a pain to use does hold a good amount of tension on the paper and I have never had to go in and readjust for stretching of the sand paper rolls. On the G0458 there were 2 belts and a ton of brass bushings that had to be routinely lubricated behind that end panel. Several were impossible to get to due to the belts and pulleys in the way. It looks like the G0458Z has only 1 belt and I don't see the maintenance info for the bushings so I guess they did away with them. That is a good thing. Due to the 2 belts the sander was kind of noisy. Often I forget the Supermax is on because it is so quiet. The conveyor belt tensioning/tracking system is a royal pain. I screwed up many belts trying to keep it tracking. It got to the point that I would run a few boards and then have to stop to track the belt and then sand some more. My motor felt very week. It was feeding the drum, conveyor, and dust blower. I dropped a 2hp motor in it and it ran fine after that. It may be that the previous owner abused it. So, I can't say that I would recommend it unless you found one used for a good price. I would rather have it then the same size Delta. I wouldn't push to a Jet 16/32 either. I say one run at a woodworking show and was not impressed. I would look at the Supermax 16-32 based on my experience with the 25-50. My brother just recently got the 16-32 and is happy with it. I think it is just a little more than the Grizzly by the time you figure in shipping and tax. Hope that helps.
Cary

[James Tibbetts]

Well you guys are certainly piling on my homework for the weekend:D
Great information as always and the kind I need most. From folks that are using the machines not the ones selling them !

[Tom Dixon]

Looks like a beast Tom. The double drums are a nice plus.
I just have to get those lottery people with the program.

Yep it's a beast. Next best thing to a belt sander with the two drums, (80 and 120). The Amazon price is high. Tool Barn has it for $250 less so if you get bitten by the dual drum bug, shop around. There are other manufacturers like General, Baileigh and WoodTek with similar products but not as wide as 26" Usually 24" to 25"

[ray grundhoefer]

If second hand is okay watch for a used woodmaster. they are built very well . I picked up a 3875 2 years ago . It does what I need

[Pete Staehling]

I really like my newish Jet 16-32. It is a very nice machine.

[tom lucas]

I have the Supermax 16-32. I like it. Great for a hobbyist. I especially like the rapid thickness adjust feature and the speed regulator. I purchased the extension tables too and like them, but a pain to initially adjust. I also like that with the folding tables, it does not take up much room in the shop.

I think most of these drum sanders have a bit of a learning curve to get speed vs. grit just right.

[Nick Decker]

I have the Supermax 16-32. I like it. Great for a hobbyist. I especially like the rapid thickness adjust feature and the speed regulator. I purchased the extension tables too and like them, but a pain to initially adjust. I also like that with the folding tables, it does not take up much room in the shop.

I think most of these drum sanders have a bit of a learning curve to get speed vs. grit just right.

Yes, on all of the above. ^^

[Mike Kees]

I have a Canwood drum sander. It is the same machine as a General International drum sander. It works really well after I went through it and adjusted everything and cleaned it. One thing I have not bought in to the two different grits on the drums,seems to me that if you do more than one pass that you just scratch the finer grit up with the rougher one on the front drum. I have used my machine with the same grit on both drums.

[Carl Beckett]

I had a performax 16x32 for some years and ran it a lot. Then upgraded to a Grizzly dual drum 25" Then I had a little Reliant 13" 'wide belt'. Then a timemaster 25" old school monster. And a Woodtek 13" widebelt. And now a Jet 16" widebelt (same unit at the powermatic 1632).

Varying degrees of cost.

Out of all of these, the best bang for the buck by far was that Reliant. I ran the crap out of it and it performed great. I liked it better than the drum sanders - less burning, faster sanding (found it on CL). So snatched up the Woodtek when it popped up on CL (a little more hp, nicer machine). But I never used the Woodtek as much before upgrading to the full widebelt. Both of those smalle widebelts cost me $450 (CL). The timemaster type machines can be had for around $2000 in my region (I gave $1000). But it was old and required maintenance. Footprint was no bigger than the grizzly drum sander (25" dual drum is not small). For the timemaster I used a static phase converter ($200) that worked fine for no more than I loaded it. Used widebelts like the Jet are under $3000. The rotary phase converter goes for about $500. It is pretty nice but not as aggressive as the timemaster.

For me, the drum sanders never quite did it. Too finicky, less aggressive, and relatively large footprint (my shop is small). Many here love them and I certainly used them a lot when I owned them (I pretty much put everything through the sander after planning). That Reliant was a gem but no longer made so not necessarily an option unless you find one used. The Jet I thought I would like more than I do (given it was the most I ever spent on a sander). Passes are relatively light still (this has a platen) and the overhung design is not much better than the overhung drum designs in terms of creating a ridge when flipping. More tuning for me to do on that still (have only done a couple projects that required flipping)

So my experience has been a series of upgrades/changeovers, still looking for nirvana. Those little overhung drums have a lot of users and I can say a great starting point (where I started).

I guess someday if I have space and piles of money it will be a large dual head widebelt.... lol (a waste for a hobbiest)

My wife thinks I have this thing about sanders.

[William A Johnston]

I feel a drum sander is a good starting point. I've been searching for a wide belt but it's really hard to justify the cost.

I have a number of grizzly machines and have been very happy with all of them. I'm sure any decision you make will be the correct one.

Bill

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have two: 16/32 Performax (built at time Performax was being purchased by Jet) and a General International 25" dual drum. For my money the Performax is superb, has been easy to install paper, belt tracks well. The General is a beast and though the concept of different grits sounds nice, in execution, does not quite cut it. A major failing of the General, is confusing drum adjustment instructions: I'm returning to a single grit and will adust the second drum about .005" lower (I have machinist 1-2-3 blocks for adjustind drum height).

Now for paper: who here has bulk paper suggestions?

[Cary Falk]

Now for paper: who here has bulk paper suggestions?

industrial Abrasive

[Steve Demuth]

The GO458, with or without the Z, is has the same basic design found in the Delta 31-255X. It's a very poor design. I've had one for years, and it's eaten more maintenance time than every other tool in my shop combined. Two issues that occur repeatedly:

1. Timing on the four posts that raise and lower the bed gets out of sync. If the toothed belt jumps a cog on one post - and all it takes is running the height adjustment a bit too fast, or some grit in a gear to guarantee it will, then that post drags and becomes more prone to additional slips. Your table goes out of planarity, the height mechanism becomes tight and difficult, and if you don't readjust, it will quickly become unusable. The adjustment is an art. Expect to spend time at it. Correction - I went and looked at the Grizzly manual, and they use a roller chain and sprocket rather than a cog belt, so it probably does not have this flaw.

2. The fed belt won't track. Period. You might, with a great deal of effort get it to track for a given speed and material, but it won't last for more than a few runs. I typically have to adjust mine every ten minutes or so.

Other limitations are just the result of the machine being at the low end of the drum sander capability range. You can't remove more than 1/64" per pass, and it's easy to overfeed and burn. But that's true of any single drum, low-end drum sander.

[Tony Zaffuto]

industrial Abrasive

Thanks for the info.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for the input all.
I think those bigger Lagunas are going to be out of budget range; about double the cost of the Griz. May well be worth it but not feasible right now.

This is one of those tools where one seems to need to get to a certain tier before the reviews become positive instead of scathing. It sometimes seems that the simpler the tool, the more critical it becomes that it do what it is supposed to. If a jointer cannot be brought into co-planer, it is a nightmare. If a drum sander fails to track correctly or requires an engineering degree and an extra elbow to change paper, same thing.

When I was shopping I wanted a drum sander that had these features, in order of priority:

The feed belt had to track correctly and stay that way.

Tracking seemed to be the biggest complaint about every sander I researched.


Easy sandpaper changes.

The long involved stories of people trying to change paper were enough to scare you off wanting a drum sander.


Stable drum alignment.

Drum to table relationship must remain parallel.


.Good dust collection.

When using a tool that does little other than create sawdust, collection is important.



I ended up with the Supermax 19-38 and it has been everything I wanted. I have never realigned the belt or drum in 5 years of use, paper changes are a breeze and I don't know how the dust collection is that good with only one 4" port.

There seems to have been a few stumbles with the Laguna acquisition. These seem to focus on the 16/32 though which was a new model for Supermax around that time. I state this just to clarify that it may have nothing to do with Laguna's presence. The Supermax was head and shoulders above anything in its price range. I did have a strange noise coming from the drive motor right off the bat. Supermax sent a replacement immediately and I swapped it out in just a few minutes.

Turns out it may have not been a bad noise, just one unfamiliar to me. The important thing is Supermax did what made me happy and did it without any reservations. Since this initial fix it has performed without a hitch. An Acme Tools sale and free shipping sweetened the deal.

[Brian W Evans]

+1 on the SuperMax 19-38.

The wide belts are always tempting, but I believe they have much higher power requirements and also require compressed air. The low prices on used ones might end up being very expensive if you don't have these two requirements met already.

[Nick Decker]

With both the Jet 1020 and the Supermax 1632, there was a bit of adjustment of tracking at first. Whether this was the new conveyor belt stretching or seating itself, or other parts settling into their rightful places I don't know. In both cases, the tracking has been perfect since the initial adjustments, no further tinkering necessary.

[James Tibbetts]

Much obliged for all the input !!
If I'm following this correctly Performax is now owned by Jet. Have the machine designs and construction remained independent or in some way combined, or gone completely to Jet creation?
The Supermax 19 will handle the vast majority of my work load in one pass which I see as a big plus. Price wise it is not all that much more that the Grizzly and no one has had a complaint about the Supermax.
Again, thanks to all the folks here for the information.

[andy bessette]

Skip the Grizzly. Look for a clean Supermax or Performax.

[Dave VanDewerker]

I also have the GO458. My advice, save your money and something better

[Doug Dawson]

If I'm following this correctly Performax is now owned by Jet. Have the machine designs and construction remained independent or in some way combined, or gone completely to Jet creation?


The story goes that after Jet bought Performax, some of the key people at Performax split off and formed Supermax and continued development there, so no link now.

[Rob Cohen]

I had a supermax open ended machine for years. It was adequate but needed to be finessed quite often and the feed belt tracking was a pain sometimes. When i needed to be really precise i used to run it through once and then a second time reversing the board end for end.
About 4 years ago i found a 15" grizzly widebelt on CL in great shape for $1800(single PH 5HP). Difference was gigantic. Finish is superb
maintenance minmal So they are around....also the Sheng Shing 15 Really worth it if you can do it and have a decent compressor

[James Tibbetts]

Supermax is leading pack the this point I think. Gotta do some serious bean counting.

On the wide belt sanders it has been mentioned that they need compressed air. What do they use it for?

[William A Johnston]

Jim,

I just got an email saying Woodcraft is having a 10% off sale on Super Max until April 30th.

Not sure if that will still blow your budget but everything helps.

Bill

[James Tibbetts]

I got that one too William :)
The stars seem to be aligning.

[James Tibbetts]

The starts were not aligning. It was an incoming meteor.
I did some bean counting and decided this was gonna be my Christmas, birthday, and every other event present to myself for the next 2 years and went for the Supermax 25-50.
I was immediately punished for that decision because after my 4+ hour round trip to the closest store stocking it, I got home only to find concealed damage to the base door.:mad:
Email and pics sent to Woodcraft. We'll see what happens next.

[glenn bradley]

At least it is a non-critical part. Sending a replacement door should be no trouble and you can certainly use it in the mean time ;-)

[James Tibbetts]

The replacement should be easy enough. Unfortunately the door frame is a structural part used to join together the ends of the closed stand. I think I'm dead in the water until the new part arrives.
The entire day was this kind of fiasco.
Tomorrow will be better :)