Economics of woodworking?

[Wade Lippman]

I built a walnut table about 15 years ago. The picture is the real color; I don't know why it is so reddish.
My wife wanted a couple chairs for the room to replace some white wicker chairs she never liked; so I was going to make a pair. Then she found some chairs at Target that are pretty much what I would have made (less the exposed fasteners).
https://www.target.com/p/wilson-2pk-acacia-wood-patio-dining-chairs-christopher-knight-home/-/A-54583644?preselect=76375059#lnk=sametab
After discount and plus tax they come to $100 each. That's not a bad price and they look like decent chairs.
I have other projects and don't need to make chairs, but still...
And if I do buy them, do I get the teak or the dark brown. My wife figures the teak and we can try to tone them to match the table.
It is an enclosed porch that we rarely use.
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[Mike Henderson]

Definitely buy. I won't try to choose between the teak and dark brown, but $100 for a decent new dining room chair is pretty good.

If you went to purchase teak you'd be amazed at the cost. You'd certainly spend a lot more than $100 per chair on teak. The places that grow teak allow it to export cheap in finished products and charge a big tax on raw wood teak.

If the chairs really are teak and not just colored to look like teak. Commercial chairs are often made of some inexpensive wood and then finished to look like some other wood.

Mike

[Andrew Seemann]

If most of us were honest about what our time cost coupled with the cost of materials plus the value of what we have sunk into tools and the physical plant of our shops compared to what you could buy that would adequately serve the purpose. . . . . .

Well let's just say that the hobbyist woodworking market would be much smaller.

Same with most hobbies. At least with woodworking, compared to say model trains, or building race cars, you can say you almost come out even at the end.

I read a post on a maple syrup forum (another "hobby" of mine). It was comparing the efficiency of different evaporator set ups. The last comparison was the configuration of the evaporator relative to the value of your time. It basically said "Buy maple syrup in the store. Costs $10 a pint. Comes in a nice glass bottle with a convenient screw cap"

The fact is, you only have so much time, so you do need to pick and choose. I definitely have struggled with that in my woodworking (hobby) career. Actually it probably is one of the main reasons I do it as a hobby and not my paying career. At least I mostly get to pick and choose what I build (sometimes at least).

[Jim Becker]

Unless you are already skilled at making chairs and have the time required to do it right, no question, this is a good "buy" situation, but I'd do more shopping before making a decision. :)

[Dan Hulbert]

I often get into the make vs buy discussion with the wife. If the piece meats all her expectations and the price is not unreasonable, it's a buy. If the piece only comes close or the price is out of line, then make. It's a hobby for me so I prefer making things that can't be bought.

[Patrick Kane]

I think its apples to oranges on this one, and most comparisons similar to the true subject of the thread. Things i build for my house have a lot more value and appeal to me and my family than store bought items. To say that Target chair is equal to what i would make is simply not true. My chair would be better quality, match the table's color and grain perfectly, and have a personal connection/touch. With all that said, i am not against buying utilitarian things. Most of my builk deck furniture was purchased--but i still sit in my western red cedar Adirondack chairs 99% of the time--and your situation might be similar for this sun room. For other builds, and especially higher end builds, i definitely think woodworking "breaks even". All of my tools paid for themselves many times over let alone the stuff ive made for myself.

[Andrew Joiner]

Easy. Go with what your wife wants!:)

[Derek Cohen]

It depends on whether you wish to treasure the chairs, have the family show them off with pride, and marvel at them every time they are used. Or just get something that really does not mean much.

This is not about economics. You know that you will build them :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Lee Schierer]

I'm confused. If the table is walnut, why would you add teak chairs?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Easy. Go with what your wife wants!:)

+1. Happy wife, happy life. Can't get easier than that one.....
I'd buy if the wife likes it.

[roger wiegand]

Is it possible to buy a chair that won't promptly fail for $100? I'd certainly buy rather than make unless I found the project particularly intriguing or had time hanging heavy on my hands, but the last couple of times I've been chair shopping the prices seemed to be 3-4x that to get ones that weren't already wobbly and 10-15x that to get a chair like one I'd like to build if I had the time, skill, and inclination. Heck, it costs about that much just to have a simple drop-in cushion reupholstered! (which is why I'm doing that job myself and we're not buying new chairs).

[Malcolm McLeod]

Is it possible to buy a chair that won't promptly fail for $100? ...

No...? We bought some flat-pack Target chairs once. They were finished to look like mahogany (very nice), but were a Chinese softwood held together with dowels and screws. They lasted about 3-4 yrs at the kitchen bar; 2 failed and are now secure residents of a landfill; 2 best ones are propping up my sons' friends around a ping pong table. The latter might see another 3-4 yrs, based on the current very light use they see. College is certainly extending their life expectancy ...both chairs AND sons!:p

You didn't say if these are flat-pack or factory assembled, but I wouldn't expect much from Target-grade chairs. Buy what fits, you like, and/or can afford. Just jump with eyes open.

[Derek Meyer]

I'm confused. If the table is walnut, why would you add teak chairs?

I am thinking that 'Teak' and 'Dark brown' refer to the finish color of the chairs and not the material. I assume the teak color would be a little more gray.

[John TenEyck]

The ad. says the chairs are made from acacia wood. If you like them, fine, buy them. But if you really wanted walnut chairs, keep looking, or make them. What's wrong with the chairs in the picture? If the answer is "Nothing" then make a couple of copies.

John

[andrew whicker]

If I was really interested in making the chairs (which would take me a long time, I've never made a chair before), but also really interested in using the table then I would do both: buy chairs and make chairs. That way you can enjoy the table and not feel pressured to get the chairs done quickly.

[Chapel Eastland]

Make your own chairs -get a new wife. Problem solved.

[Randy Heinemann]

I doubt the chairs from Target will be as good as yours but, if you aren’t very experienced making chairs they will take a long time to make. Will your wife be more satisfied with yours? Can you match them exactly in both color and design? Do what gives you the most satisfaction in woodworking. Sounds like buying then might be a quick solution. If they don’t last maybe that’s justification for making them later.

[Wade Lippman]

The furniture is in an enclosed porch. We use it when we entertain large groups in warm weather; about once every two years. Otherwise it is pretty much a space for her to decorate. She loves to decorate.

I made a set of chairs for the breakfast table we have used every day for 15 years. They still look good, but will need to be reupholstered soon. They were A LOT of work.

For me, the maple syrup analogy is appropriate. I started woodworking because we needed a cabinet in the master bath and absolutely nothing was available, so I learned how to make it. I've made a lot of furniture for this house and my old one; it was all intended for the exact place and function I needed..
I have also made a quart of maple syrup. It is an awful lot of work and tastes like commercial syrup. It was a fun experience, but I won't be doing it again.
I see the chairs that way. Mine would match the table and be rather nicer, but the wood would cost maybe $100 and take at least 25 hours to build.
My wife wanted me to make the chairs, but then found the Target chairs and thought they would be adequate. I was inclined to let it go at that, but wanted your thoughts.
Thanks.

But why aren't people doing the poll?

[Jim Becker]

But why aren't people doing the poll?

Probably because non of the three choices match our individual point of view on the situation. :) That's one of the problems with polls, unfortunately, when they don't have an "other" choice.

[roger wiegand]

It's important to remember that one's wife is called "she who must be obeyed" for a reason. Do what she wants and build something you want to build-- it's a win/win.

[Warren Wilson]

Interesting question for me. I am now at the point (and age) where I have built most of the furniture in our house. Now, as I complete a piece I cannot help but wonder where it will end up, as my children will not want it all. Like most folks in here, there is no comparison between the things I build out of good material and nice joinery and the things you can buy from most “furniture” stores that are too often stapled-together particle board, drawers on flimsy slides, ironed-on edge banding etc.

(I sometimes walk through local furniture stores to look at what is trendy in terms of design. It makes me shake my head when an eager commissioned salesman keeps pointing out to me what fine quality he is offering in pieces that have hardly a drop of glue in them).

But as my grandchildren move through their teen years I realize much of my furniture will end up in an estate sale, and it seems an ignominious end for all that careful cutting and fitting. So I have to admit I am doing it for my own satisfaction: I would venture that the chairs might be considered in the same light.

[Jim Dwight]

For the situation you describe I would probably buy them. My biggest reservation is the strength of the target chair. If really large people will or might use them, I would lean more towards making them. The joints of the target chairs are not going to be better than dowels and might be less. I have a brother that is 250+ and has had chairs fail when was just sitting in them. Not sure I would want him in a Target chair.

The only chairs I have made are from a plan in WoodSmith. The joints are all on right angles. They still take time but aren't bad. I've made 8 so far and have about that many more in the not too distant future. I will do no more than 4 at a time. 8 at once would be a struggle to keep going. I like all the aspects of woodworking but I need the satisfaction of finishing something in less time than it would take me to build 8 chairs.

[Marshall Harrison]

Do both.

If SWMBO likes the Target chairs then buy them. Take them apart, stain to match then reassemble with glue or any other technique to make them more stable and last longer. best of both worlds.

[Andrew Seemann]

Interesting question for me. I am now at the point (and age) where I have built most of the furniture in our house. Now, as I complete a piece I cannot help but wonder where it will end up, as my children will not want it all.

I've actually gotten to the point where I wonder what to do with some of the pieces of furniture I have built that are in our house now. Several pieces I have made were to fit certain places and situations that no longer are relevant, like an armoire that fit in a specific place in my mother's house when the wife and I lived there, or the mission style, quarter sawn white oak entertainment center that was designed for a CRT television. It is now too small for modern flat screens, while being far too deep than needed.

You don't really want to get rid of the stuff, but you don't really need or want it. The armoire fortunately went back to my mother's house, but I'm still not sure what to do with the entertainment center once it gets replaced this summer/fall with one more appropriate for today's technology. You can't give entertainment centers away these days; even charities often won't take them. No one wants them, especially if they don't work with modern flatscreens.

[Jacob Reverb]

I suspect the only cost-effective way to make chairs is to make them by the thousand...or to sell them for a thousand apiece.

That said, I'm skeptical that you can get much of a chair for $100 from any source.

TL;DR: Go with what your wife says.

[Carl Beckett]

I made some chairs a couple different times. They came out great, I was proud of them. They were a lot of work (the design I came up with everything was a compound angle), and repetition (6 of everything! over a hundred compound joints). I enjoyed the first 2 sets more than the other 4...

Other times I have needed chairs and found some that I liked good enough and just bought them. Some of these I am still using as well.

Either way can work.

So if you want an excuse to make chairs, make them. If there are other projects that are more interesting, buy the chairs and move on.