It's All Gone Now

[James Waldron]

A very sad loss of a wonder of woodworking art, stone working art, blacksmithing art, sculpture, painting, and a lot of humanity:

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800 years since it was completed, almost 300 years to build.

[brian zawatsky]

Makes my heart hurt.

[Patrick McFate]

The towers have been saved, they say, and some of the roof will survive. And no one was killed. I am trying to stay focused on that.

Can you imagine working on the same monument your grandfather worked on, knowing that your kids and grandkids may also work there before it is completed? I can't imagine something of that scale being attempted, or even feasible, today.

[Tom M King]

i hope we see it rebuilt in our lifetime, but that it's done to look exactly like it did. With today's technology, probably a lot less time than all by hand, and back.

[Bill McDermott]

I am moved in a surprising way and want to help rebuild. Wouldn’t it be nice if modern technology allows us to collaborate globally on the restoration? For example; Could groups of people around the world build pews to measured drawings? Can US forests provide some of the oak timbers? I just hope the authorities let people who want to help, get to work without overly complicating the restoration.

[Bob Glenn]

I fear that some of the skills used to build the original structure have been lost to time. However, it's good to hear their vow to re-build. A sad, sad day.

[Tom M King]

There are still plenty of Artisans with the skills needed. I don't know about that in another generation, or two though. Even as the skills can be passed on, the understanding of what a day's work is might be harder to come by.

[Warren Mickley]

There are still plenty of Artisans with the skills needed. I don't know about that in another generation, or two though. Even as the skills can be passed on, the understanding of what a day's work is might be harder to come by.

Certainly. We do this kind of work here in Pennsylvania. There is no shortage of artisans.

[Pete Taran]

Where in PA Warren? I grew up there.

[Scott Winners]

I am moved in a surprising way and want to help rebuild. Wouldn’t it be nice if modern technology allows us to collaborate globally on the restoration? For example; Could groups of people around the world build pews to measured drawings? Can US forests provide some of the oak timbers? I just hope the authorities let people who want to help, get to work without overly complicating the restoration.

I would be delighted to make a whatever for the rebuild. The thing is too valuable to tear it down and put in another department store.

[Eric Rathhaus]

They can restore the building, but not the artifacts inside it. Illuminated manuscripts, tapestries, paintings, etc. are probably all lost. I think of the bunring of the library in Alexandria. Such a loss to humanity.

[Jim Van Verth]

As I understand it, the treasures were saved -- priests cleared them out as the building burned.

[Jim Matthews]

They will rebuild, and not for the first time.
It's an act of dedication to keep these open.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/04/15/fire-was-scourge-medieval-cathedrals-they-rebuilt-ashes/?utm_term=.ea7af72158b6

[Jim Van Verth]

More information about the status of the treasures of the cathedral:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/16/notre-dame-fire-fears-over-fate-of-cathedrals-treasures


A priest who comforted the wounded in the Bataclan concert hall after the Paris terror attacks in 2015 joined a human chain of firefighters to help save priceless religious relics from the burning Notre Dame (https://www.theguardian.com/world/notre-dame) Cathedral on Monday night.

Search for "Priest helped firefighters rescue treasures from burning Notre Dame" if the link goes away.

[James Waldron]

I so pleased to learn that I was partially wrong about it all being gone. The link shows some things remain, the Rose Windows, the Altar, and more.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6926807/Devastating-aftermath-Notre-Dame-inferno-leaves-world-mourning.html

And a lot of the art and artifacts were pulled out and preserved.

Still pretty bad, but at least not total destruction.

[Herv Peairs]

I hope that the common cause of rebuilding Notre Dame will help bring the people of France (and beyond) together.

When our own National Cathedral was damaged in the 2011 earthquake, there was concern about finding masons with the necessary skills. They found some: https://wamu.org/story/18/12/12/re-carving-history-national-cathedral-stonemasons-chip-away-at-earthquake-repairs/

Also related to restoration: https://wamu.org/story/19/03/01/national-cathedral-doesnt-have-the-cash-to-finish-earthquake-repairs-so-its-turning-to-legos/

[Kurtis Johnson]

It's a ruins for sure. Studied it in art school. My heart aches.

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[Jim Koepke]

It is a sad time for Mankind.

Already there is the hope of Mankind in the movement to rebuild.

Now we will shed tears of loss. In time to come we will shed tears of joy as we witness the restoration of Notre Dame.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

I’m seeing some promising reports and photographs. It looks like the roof burned, but the point of ignition was at the roof level. The structure is largely undamaged. There’s a big pile of rubble but not wholesale destruction. .

[Allen Read]

It was a sad loss, but apparently it could have been a lot worse. I doubt the 5 year schedule of the politicians, but maybe it will be rebuilt in my lifetime. (I'm 68)
Fortunately, the stone carvers are still available. They are rare, but they are there. The knowledge is not completely lost.

One problem may be finding a match to the existing limestone. It would be very fortunate indeed if even the same quarries still match today. Check out the Washington Monument for an example of this. Being in the stone business, I'll be very interested in how this plays out.

Allen

[Tom M King]

Allen, my thoughts as well on the matching of the stone being the issue nearest to impossible.

copied and pasted from my reply in another thread, which gives my opinion on the 5 year statement:
The questions I get asked the most, which also immediately alerts me to the fact that these people aren't worth taking much time talking to, are, "How much is it going to cost, and when will it be finished?" No lie. These are the number one (since they are always asked together) most asked questions I get when discussing resurrecting some Historic house from partial ruin by visitors when I'm at some stage into the process. These aren't the people I work for.

Setting the highest priority on the list at getting it done in five years is just plain stupid.

[JimA Thornton]

To me the biggest challenge is going to be rebuilding an ancient building while working within modern building codes. Maybe someone experienced with this type of situation has some idea how this would work.

Jim

[Tony Zaffuto]

My oldest daughter is a registered architect, studied in Rome, along with the US. She just shakes her head in wonderment with some of the goals being set, but adds their profession thrives on seemingly unrealistic goals.

[Dan Sheehan]

Fear not. When I first heard of the fire I thought immediately of the Medieval guilds that built this cathedral and many like it. Their tradition is still alive and well in France and Germany, and now America.

The American College of Building Arts was founded in large part with instructors who are members of the Compagnons du Devoir. They go back centuries. I worked doing timber framing with two of these guys, and took a course in roof framing from another one. They are absolutely amazing. They train for ten years and can layout any roof by hand with a rule, divider and square. They have to draw and build to scale models of cathedral roofs to earn their qualifications. No CAD allowed.

They will be very busy in the coming years. My guess is that now a few well trained Americans might also be involved.

It's this Architecture contest I fear. That spire was pretty good the way it was.

https://acba.edu/History.php#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnons_du_Devoir (https://acba.edu/History.php#History)

[Allen Read]

"How much is it going to cost, and when will it be finished?"

Tom, We think alike on this. This is a valid question for the construction of an office building or a mall. But, as I'm sure all of us recognize, Notre Dame is in a vastly different class of construction. A case could be made that it is not so much building construction, but art. The answer to this question is that it costs what it costs and it will take as long as it takes.
It took 182 years to build it. Modern construction equipment and methods will greatly shorten the repairs. Just a horseback guess based on over over 4 decades in the construction business, I doubt they will be completely finished in 15 years. And that's if the remaining walls are structurally sound. If not, then 20 to 25 years. They may have the roof on in less than 5 years. There are "only" 52 acres of trees up there. There is a huge amount of work on the interior that can't be done by just anybody.
I hope that I will see the reopening before I die.

Allen

[Allen Read]

To me the biggest challenge is going to be rebuilding an ancient building while working within modern building codes. Maybe someone experienced with this type of situation has some idea how this would work.

Jim

Jim, this is a valid question. Nobody has flying buttresses like this in many years. Modern structural engineers are not experienced in designing them. Maybe the 5 year goal is to get the building permit paperwork straightened out. :)

Allen