French cleats on cement wall...

[Steve Wurster]

My shop is in my basement, which means it's mostly comprised of cement walls, and one of those walls has cabinets hanging up on it. These are cabinets I built over 10 years ago, and they are just big, deep, open, plywood cabinets. Their design and height off the floor means that accessing items in them is actually quite annoying. I want to take them down and turn that wall into a french cleat storage wall instead.

My question is whether I should just mount the cleats directly to the cement wall, or should I build a sub-wall out of plywood and furring strips and then mount the cleats to that. Mounting the cleats directly means it's less work for me overall, but having a plywood wall means I have the option of attaching things directly to the plywood if desired.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Steve

[roger wiegand]

I'd just attach them directly to the concrete, except remounting the cabinets provides an ideal chance to get some insulation on the concrete walls. What I've done in the past is 2-4" of blue foam against the wall, 2x4's sideways (ie flat against the foam, lagged to the wall, unless you have room for a full stud wall in front of the foam, an even better solution) to attach things to and provide a space for wires, then your favorite wall material. Adding insulation will make your basement shop much more comfortable year round.

[Steve Wurster]

I'd just attach them directly to the concrete, except remounting the cabinets provides an ideal chance to get some insulation on the concrete walls. What I've done in the past is 2-4" of blue foam against the wall, 2x4's sideways (ie flat against the foam, lagged to the wall, unless you have room for a full stud wall in front of the foam, an even better solution) to attach things to and provide a space for wires, then your favorite wall material. Adding insulation will make your basement shop much more comfortable year round.

I'm not going to be remounting those old cabinets. I'll just be going with something more "traditional" for french cleat-based storage solutions. And I guess if I mount the cleats directly to the wall but in the future decide I want to put up plywood, at least all of my cleat-based storage will still work on the cleats that I put up on top of the plywood.

Thankfully I do not have to insulate the walls in my shop; I'm in the same room as the HVAC units and so they help with temperature and humidity even though there's no actual HVAC exhaust or return ducts in the shop itself. There is one outlet under the existing cabinets, but I can easily move that so it's just to the right of where the cleats will end.

[glenn bradley]

If you want ease of moving your cleat mounted fixtures you will want the cleat rails on a plumb surface plane. I shimmed my wallboard to be true and mounted through that to the studs. Shimming a backboard may be easier than shimming the cleat rails individually.

[Steve Wurster]

If you want ease of moving your cleat mounted fixtures you will want the cleat rails on a plumb surface plane. I shimmed my wallboard to be true and mounted through that to the studs. Shimming a backboard may be easier than shimming the cleat rails individually.

Well, that's actually a really damn good point. That wall is pretty "flat", other than the parts where the individual poured sections meet, but I doubt that it's truly plumb across the whole thing.

[glenn bradley]

Well, that's actually a really damn good point. That wall is pretty "flat", other than the parts where the individual poured sections meet, but I doubt that it's truly plumb across the whole thing.

Don't let me make you waste too much time on this. I wanted my fixtures to be able to be nudged over a foot or so if required (and it has been required more than once). At first I just screwed the cleats to the existing wall board and many of the locations I wanted to use were too irregular to even let the cleat fully seat. I pulled everything down and shimmed the existing studs using a plumb bob. Put the wallboard back up and now the fixtures all set nicely wherever I happen to move them. Your need for rearranging will drive the value of the effort required to make things plumb.

[Rod Sheridan]

My shop French cleats are screwed directly to the concrete wall with shims behind the cleat to keep it straight.

You'll really like using the cleat system.........Rod.

[Steve Wurster]

My shop French cleats are screwed directly to the concrete wall with shims behind the cleat to keep it straight.

You'll really like using the cleat system.........Rod.

Rod, that sounds like a good plan. Do you have a problem with any of your cleats being further "out" or "in" than others due to the wall not being perfectly flat? I honestly don't know if that would even be a problem worth trying to fix.

[Jim Becker]

Your basement seemed pretty darn dry to me, so I'd put the cleats right on the wall. And you can still hang cabinets using the cleats...they are just easier to move around and put at different heights, too. :) Unless you're a fan of "free form" storage with stuff on nails, etc., I wouldn't' bother with the plywood for cost reasons, honestly.

[Rod Sheridan]

No I don’t have an issue with that.

What I do is put a propel nut in the bottom corners and put a short hex cap screw in it.

That way I can adjust each of them to be plumb with ease......Rod

[Steve Wurster]

No I don’t have an issue with that.

What I do is put a propel nut in the bottom corners and put a short hex cap screw in it.

That way I can adjust each of them to be plumb with ease......Rod

That sounds like a cool idea for handling that issue. Do you have a picture just so I can see it?

[Rod Sheridan]

That sounds like a cool idea for handling that issue. Do you have a picture just so I can see it?

Hi Steve, it’s a lousy photo.

You can see the Propel nut in the rear of the cabinet and the head of the cap screw against the green wall......Regards, Rod

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[Jim Becker]

That's a really great idea, Rod, especially when the surface of the wall might be wonky.

[Steve Wurster]

I got the cleats up over the weekend (in multiple shop sessions due to other responsibilities). They went up pretty easily, thankfully. There's a few irregularities in the wall that will prevent me from being able to put a cleat in every single location, but all in all it should be fine. Next will be making various holders.

407452

[Jim Becker]

Nice, clean installation, Steve!

[Roger Feeley]

When my house was built, they wrapped the basement interior in these giant insulation blankets. The contractor told me that most people throw it away right after inspection. I took another route. I took the blankets down, cut them into batts and put them between studs I attached to the walls with L-brackets and concrete nails. then I put up OSB...a LOT of OSB. In the end, it was well worth it. The shop is very comfortable and I can attach whatever I want anywhere I want.

I made a point of not running any wire behind the OSB. I wanted everything surface mounted and visible. That way, I can drive screws without worrying about wires behind. The only exception are the light switches at the entry. I have little doubt that my electrical work is not up to code. I surface mount the romex using cleats every 6". No conduit. But it has the virtue of being very removable.

[Jon Snider]

I got the cleats up over the weekend (in multiple shop sessions due to other responsibilities). They went up pretty easily, thankfully. There's a few irregularities in the wall that will prevent me from being able to put a cleat in every single location, but all in all it should be fine. Next will be making various holders.

407452

Did you use Tapcons or one of the ram jet type fasteners, or something else? My usual technique for concrete is a 16d galvanized nail and two pieces of tie wire in a 5/16” drilled hole. Mainly bc Tapcons seem to break a lot for me.

[Steve Wurster]

Did you use Tapcons or one of the ram jet type fasteners, or something else? My usual technique for concrete is a 16d galvanized nail and two pieces of tie wire in a 5/16” drilled hole. Mainly bc Tapcons seem to break a lot for me.

I used Tapcons. I've got a Bosch SDS+ hammer drill that just cuts into this stuff like butter.

The crappy cabinets that were in this space previously were hung on individual french cleats that were also attached with Tapcons. My dust collector hangs on the wall to the right and its brackets (one is barely visible in picture) are attached with Tapcons. I've also got Tapcons holding up 2 old kitchen cabinets and my clamp storage brackets. I've never had a problem with them.

[Jim Becker]

When my house was built, they wrapped the basement interior in these giant insulation blankets. The contractor told me that most people throw it away right after inspection. I took another route. I took the blankets down, cut them into batts and put them between studs I attached to the walls with L-brackets and concrete nails. then I put up OSB...a LOT of OSB. In the end, it was well worth it. The shop is very comfortable and I can attach whatever I want anywhere I want..
The alternative way would have been to build the wall just inside the existing insulation to avoid breaking the massive vapor barrier, fastening to the floor and the joists above.

[Steve Wurster]

Nice, clean installation, Steve!

Thanks. And here's the first holder that I made.

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[Jim Becker]

Very nice. I'll have to stop over sometime once you get more things setup. I still need to fondle your new slider anyway. :) :D

[Steve Wurster]

Very nice. I'll have to stop over sometime once you get more things setup. I still need to fondle your new slider anyway. :) :D

That's right! I'll let you know when I'm further along and ready for a visitor.

[Rod Sheridan]

That's a really great idea, Rod, especially when the surface of the wall might be wonky.

Thanks Jim, and my poured concrete basement wall certainly qualifies as "wonky"...................Regards, Rod.