Help with 5hp Baldor wiring. 10-30 plugs ok?

[Patrick Irish]

My dad wants to add several 220v outlets in my garage. I’m tired of sharing a dryer outlet with 4 machines. My 5hp sawstop, 3hp jointer, And 5hp planer all have their own cords and 10-30 male plugs.

The plan was go add a few 10-30 outlets. Thoughts on that?

Question 2, what are these 4 wires for? I’m confused with wiring diagram and namplate. No way this motor needs a constant 110v so we figured to run 10awg cord and a 10-30 male plug.

https://i.ibb.co/VtP766P/EDEC1531-D6-D1-42-AB-B12-C-FC346-FCD1-BCC.jpg (https://ibb.co/4756kk5)
https://i.ibb.co/ZTxmdcc/0-F744250-A8-CC-4-A11-A415-4807-CAB8-E8-D8.jpg (https://ibb.co/QmMd9YY)
https://i.ibb.co/KwNr954/0-BC0-BCE3-6651-4313-A052-2-CE34-EEB3-FBD.jpg (https://ibb.co/cLbrNyf)

[Frank Pratt]

2 wires are for the run winding, the other 2 are the start winding. To reverse direction, you reverse the polarity of the start winding. That motor does not appear to be equipped with a thermostat, so don't worry about those wires (that aren't there) or those thermostat voltage ratings. I assume it's a 240V motor.

[Patrick Irish]

2 wires are for the run winding, the other 2 are the start winding. To reverse direction, you reverse the polarity of the start winding. That motor does not appear to be equipped with a thermostat, so don't worry about those wires (that aren't there) or those thermostat voltage ratings. I assume it's a 240V motor.

Yeah, it's a 5hp single phase baldor. Brand new. No manual in box.

[David L Morse]

No, a 10-30 plug is wrong for this application. You should use 6-30 plugs and receptacles.

A 10-30 is used for 120/240 without ground. That middle pin is for neutral, not ground. Yes, it will work but it's not code compliant and in certain situations could be dangerous.

[Mike Cutler]

My dad wants to add several 220v outlets in my garage. I’m tired of sharing a dryer outlet with 4 machines. My 5hp sawstop, 3hp jointer, And 5hp planer all have their own cords and 10-30 male plugs.

The plan was go add a few 10-30 outlets. Thoughts on that?

Question 2, what are these 4 wires for? I’m confused with wiring diagram and namplate. No way this motor needs a constant 110v so we figured to run 10awg cord and a 10-30 male plug.



The wiring differences just change the way the motor rotates.
Sure, add some 240 receptacles and make your life easier.
My personal choice would be to use L6-30P's and R's for plugs and receptacles if you're going to stay with that wiring convention. These are twist lock plugs and receptacles.
I have a 5HP Air Compressor and a 5HP commercial washer on 3/C,10AWG, SOOW cord,that both utilize L6-30P's. The warranty on the Air Compressor was void the moment I put a plug on it, but I was good with that.
If warranties are important to you, you might want to check into the wiring. Some manufacturers, like my air compressor by Rolair, want the machines hard wire installed per the manual. If not, an appropriately sized/rated cord and plug will absolutely work.

[Richard Coers]

Might be a good time to call an electrician. Anytime I see folks asking about basic wiring, it gives me pause. I have a healthy respect for electricity and know when I'm over my head. I don't want a shop fire caused by "electrical issues". Skilled labor can be cheap in those cases.

[Malcolm McLeod]

... You should use 6-30 plugs and receptacles...


... would be to use L6-30P's and R's for plugs and receptacles ...


Might be a good time to call an electrician. ...

All excellent advice. I'll 2nd the 'L6' recommendation. And to quote Red Adair (famous oil well fire fighter), "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, try hiring an amateur!"

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I never install locking devices unless I have a need for them.

Straight blade receptacles, and right angle cord caps make a very neat installation. at lower cost.

We experience far more failures of twist lock devices at work than straight blade devices because it's difficult at a glance to determine if they have been rotated to the correct position.

Straight blade devices are obvious when not properly seated............Regards, Rod.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I concur with Rod - I dislike the twist-locks because they're difficult to align.

[Malcolm McLeod]

With dedicated receptacles, I just plug ‘em in and leave them. YMMV

(I like the extra security.... call me a sissy.)��

[Mike Cutler]

Hi, I never install locking devices unless I have a need for them.

Straight blade receptacles, and right angle cord caps make a very neat installation. at lower cost.

We experience far more failures of twist lock devices at work than straight blade devices because it's difficult at a glance to determine if they have been rotated to the correct position.

Straight blade devices are obvious when not properly seated............Regards, Rod.

Rod
I've always been kind of partial to twist locks. I like the confidence of knowing that plug can't easily come out.Usually, for me at least, they're attached to somewhat heavier cords, 10 and 12AWG SO cord, that can droop, but using the right angle plugs would certainly mitigate that issue.
I've never had the problem Dan has referred with respect to alignment???
It's a personal preference for me, and they can be an acceptable "line of sight disconnect" under the right circumstance. I like them in the garage.
Regardless of my personal opinion, as long as the correct sized/rated plug, receptacle and wiring is used, everything should be just fine.

[Carl Beckett]

I have twist locks all around my shop.

If I had it to do over I would use straight blade right angle as Rod suggests.

[Bob Falk]

+1 on twist lock. I like knowing that the plug is securely attached to the outlet and won't get easily pulled out mid operation.

[Patrick Irish]

Dad came by yesterday with a bunch of wire, breakers, and a subpanel. First time I had to attic crawl and fish wire but I'm happy to say I have 5 new 220 outlets. Three 20amp and two 30 amps. All are L6 twist lock outlets. So excited.

Now, can someone further explain why this motor has 4 wires? As in, what are each color for? I'm used to reading as in an a worded explanation in a manual to what the wires are not a drawing of the wiring schematic which doesnt make sense to me. Once I figure out what these wires mean, I can wire up the magnetic starter to the planer, hook up the 10awg plug with new twist lock end and be done.

https://i.ibb.co/VtP766P/EDEC1531-D6-D1-42-AB-B12-C-FC346-FCD1-BCC.jpg

[Gary Markham]

Each of the 4 wires should be marked with a number printed on them. You should find a 1, a4, a5, and an 8. Also per the drawing. Blue is 1 yellow is 4. Black is 5 and red is 8.
to rotate in the standard dir. connect the 1 wire with the 8 wire with one leg or your 240 out of the start switch (contactor). Connect th 4 wire and the 5 wire with the other leg of the 240 from the start switch (contactor). Connect the ground wire to the ground terminal. The wires should match the cover drawing Line means the 2 sides of the 240.
Gary

[Rollie Meyers]

A 5 HP 1Ø motor requires wiring for 35A which is the amperes listed in NEC table 430.248, 28A at 125%, most straight blade receptacles also are only rated for 3.5 HP max, so unless someone is willing to spend some very serious money $$$ for pin and sleeve devices that are rated for the desired HP, a cord & plug connected 5 HP motor is not code compliant.

[Rod Sheridan]

Dad came by yesterday with a bunch of wire, breakers, and a subpanel. First time I had to attic crawl and fish wire but I'm happy to say I have 5 new 220 outlets. Three 20amp and two 30 amps. All are L6 twist lock outlets. So excited.

Now, can someone further explain why this motor has 4 wires? As in, what are each color for? I'm used to reading as in an a worded explanation in a manual to what the wires are not a drawing of the wiring schematic which doesnt make sense to me. Once I figure out what these wires mean, I can wire up the magnetic starter to the planer, hook up the 10awg plug with new twist lock end and be done.

https://i.ibb.co/VtP766P/EDEC1531-D6-D1-42-AB-B12-C-FC346-FCD1-BCC.jpg

The two larger wires are the run winding, the smaller are the start winding.

Connect one run and one start together, that’s line 1.

Connect the other run winding to the other start winding, that’s line 2.

If the motor runs backwards reverse the start winding........Rod

[Jim Becker]

Since you are standardized on the 30amp plugs and receptacles, I submit to you that it would have been best to wire all of the circuits for 30amp to insure there is no inadvertent, human-induced problem with plugging a tool into the "wrong" circuit. "Stuff happens". Conceivably, a tool requiring 30 amp can plug into a 20 amp line and while the breaker would certainly protect the wire from over-draw, it would "frustrating". I stuck with using 20 amp twist locks on 20 amp circuits and 30 amp twist locks on 30 amp circuits, but if I were building my shop again, I would standardize on 30 amp circuits across the board for simplicity, in all honestly, for "any tool; any outlet" flexibility. (Outside of specialty items like my CNC which requires four wire, dual voltage)

But perhaps I misunderstood you in post #14 and you did differentiate connections...I'm making an assumption base on wording of both that post and previous.

[Richard Coers]

Just curious Rod, I am missing something about the wiring. No ground or neutral in the motor box? Does the line ground just go to that tapped hole in the motor box base?


The two larger wires are the run winding, the smaller are the start winding.

Connect one run and one start together, that’s line 1.

Connect the other run winding to the other start winding, that’s line 2.

If the motor runs backwards reverse the start winding........Rod

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Richard, no neutral.

Yes make sure the metal is clean and attach the ground using a machine screw in the tapped hole...Rod

[Bill Dufour]

This motor is 240 only so no neutral is needed. There may be a green ground screw at the back of the box or you attach a wire under one of the box mounting screws in the back. Or you can loop the ground wire under one of the cover plate screws which will disconnect every time you open the box and it is impossible to verify it stayed hooked in place while the plate was installed.
Note that Asia and Europe use other colors for ground not just green or bare. brown and yellow come to mind.
In house wiring white and natural grey(never seen grey) are neutral, green or bare are ground and any other color is hot.
Bill D

[Richard Coers]

Thanks Rod. I was curious because you can just see a cord to the right in the picture. Sure looks like only two wires there too. Just seemed like something was missing here.

[Darcy Warner]

Since you are standardized on the 30amp plugs and receptacles, I submit to you that it would have been best to wire all of the circuits for 30amp to insure there is no inadvertent, human-induced problem with plugging a tool into the "wrong" circuit. "Stuff happens". Conceivably, a tool requiring 30 amp can plug into a 20 amp line and while the breaker would certainly protect the wire from over-draw, it would "frustrating". I stuck with using 20 amp twist locks on 20 amp circuits and 30 amp twist locks on 30 amp circuits, but if I were building my shop again, I would standardize on 30 amp circuits across the board for simplicity, in all honestly, for "any tool; any outlet" flexibility. (Outside of specialty items like my CNC which requires four wire, dual voltage)

But perhaps I misunderstood you in post #14 and you did differentiate connections...I'm making an assumption base on wording of both that post and previous.

Twist lock prong style changes with each amperage increase, so you cant put the wrong one in the wrong one.
They are also different on 480v.

[Jim Becker]

Twist lock prong style changes with each amperage increase, so you cant put the wrong one in the wrong one.
They are also different on 480v.
I know that ... mine is setup with the correct connectors for either 20 amp or 30 amp as I noted. My comment was to the OP where it appeared to me from the dialog that 30 amp connections were chosen for both 20 amp and 30 amp circuits.

[Patrick Irish]

Thanks Rod. I was curious because you can just see a cord to the right in the picture. Sure looks like only two wires there too. Just seemed like something was missing here.

The ground, where do I add that? I don't understand. I really wished Baldor supplied a more clear manual/diagram.

I'm going to open the motor wire door, looks like there's a threaded hole in the bottom right. If that's so, I can just run my own supplied green ground wire from there out one of the knock out hole to where?

[Patrick Irish]

I'm an idiot. There's a ground screw in the box on the motor. The 10awg I'm using from the motor to the starter is 3 wire with a ground. That will connect to the green screw in the box and then to a mounting screw on the starter.

What about the ground wire from the supply line? Where does that go?

I'm also going to have to figure out how to wire my push button on/off switch. I know it has something to do with the NO and NC. I'll add a photo of my magnetic started later. It's a WEG model and kind odd looking in placement of the terminals.

[Richard Coers]

Every ground has to go to the earth. I guess you could just run it to a water pipe if it is bonded through the meter, but traditionally it goes to the main box and connects so it goes to the ground rod driven into the earth. I'd assume Baldor expects the buyer to be a professional or able to hire one. They might open themselves to litigation if they instructed woodworkers how to connect up 220v. Illegal in some municipalities for hobbyists to do electrical work at all.

[Patrick Irish]

Every ground has to go to the earth. I guess you could just run it to a water pipe if it is bonded through the meter, but traditionally it goes to the main box and connects so it goes to the ground rod driven into the earth. I'd assume Baldor expects the buyer to be a professional or able to hire one. They might open themselves to litigation if they instructed woodworkers how to connect up 220v. Illegal in some municipalities for hobbyists to do electrical work at all.

Ground to a water pipe? I don't understand.

The 10awg supply cord I'm using will have a L6-30 male plug on it. That cord will go to the magnetic starter. It's a three wire, black, white and green. Since it's a single phase motor, where does the green wire go in regards to the magnetic starter? The same spot the the ground wire from the motor goes to? Is the ground wire from the supply (line in) necessary to hook up to the magnetic starter somewhere?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Patrick, respectfully, these are super-simple electrical questions, and you're running dangerously close to killing yourself or burning your house down if you are struggling to answer them. You can figure this out, but you need to invest some time in learning about it. Find a book on basic wiring and read it. Do it right - do it safe.

But to answer your question, the ground from the supply cord should go to the screw or stud inside the motor starter. The ground running to the motor should also terminate, here. If it's a stud, each ground should have a separate lock-nut. If it's a screw, the ground wires should be joined together with a wirenut (or other suitable device) along with a pigtail that runs to this screw.

It's helpful to understand the "why": If a wire broke inside the motor, it could touch the metal motor chassis, and without a ground in place, you could touch that energized chassis and electrocute yourself. So, from a high-level: everything metal should be grounded. The ground comes in from the supply cable, then needs to ground the metal parts of the motor starter, then needs to ground the metal parts of the motor.

[Bill Dufour]

Sounds like I need to add never switch a ground wire, neutral can be switched along with the hot leads. In your motor starter you will switch both hot leads and have one empty switch. Is the coil 120 or 240? If it is 120 you need a neutral into the starter.
Bil lD.

http://electricala2z.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Configuration-4.-Multiple-Stop-Start-Circuit.gif

[Bill Dufour]

WEG starter like this? Does it have separate stop/start station(s)

https://www.amazon.com/WEG-MAGNETIC-STARTER-ELECTRIC-COMRPESSOR/dp/B00Y4Z2DPC

[Andrew Seemann]

Ground to a water pipe? I don't understand.

The 10awg supply cord I'm using will have a L6-30 male plug on it. That cord will go to the magnetic starter. It's a three wire, black, white and green. Since it's a single phase motor, where does the green wire go in regards to the magnetic starter? The same spot the the ground wire from the motor goes to? Is the ground wire from the supply (line in) necessary to hook up to the magnetic starter somewhere?

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to get someone who knows what they are doing. The motor and starter didn't come with detailed instructions (no motors this size do) because the schematics are all you should need. If you need more than that, asking questions on a forum isn't going to cut it; there is just too much additional knowledge and experience that you need. The woodworking equivalent of the electrical questions you are asking is like someone being confused why some screwdriver blade tips are flat and others look like a plus or square or star.

If you don't have a solid understanding of the concepts of 120/240 vs 240, grounds, bonding, and reading schematics, a very expensive 5HP 240V motor is not the place to learn them.

[Patrick Irish]

WEG starter like this? Does it have separate stop/start station(s)

https://www.amazon.com/WEG-MAGNETIC-STARTER-ELECTRIC-COMRPESSOR/dp/B00Y4Z2DPC

Close. This model here. Looks identical though.

https://temcoindustrial.com/weg-esws-25v24e-rm34-motor-starter.html

[Patrick Irish]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to get someone who knows what they are doing. The motor and starter didn't come with detailed instructions (no motors this size do) because the schematics are all you should need. If you need more than that, asking questions on a forum isn't going to cut it; there is just too much additional knowledge and experience that you need. The woodworking equivalent of the electrical questions you are asking is like someone being confused why some screwdriver blade tips are flat and others look like a plus or square or star.

If you don't have a solid understanding of the concepts of 120/240 vs 240, grounds, bonding, and reading schematics, a very expensive 5HP 240V motor is not the place to learn them.


I figured out the wiring and ground after some hours of research and some lecturing from my dad who's a contractor and does most of his own electrical. He explained where the grounds from the line in and the grounds from the motor go and why.

What I don't understand now and trying to research is the on/off switch and how to connect that to my mag starter. The starter is a 240v coil model. Push button on/off below. It's empty of wire now, that's how it was wired when the 3 phase motor was on it.

https://preview.ibb.co/cOwR48/595_C0114_97_B1_4_F99_9276_1047021_DB7_C2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/qgt64K6/2-B142-AB9-7-A6-A-4-E44-937-F-D15-E5-DC9906-E.jpg (https://ibb.co/X5hHd1H)

[Frank Pratt]

Patrick, respectfully, these are super-simple electrical questions, and you're running dangerously close to killing yourself or burning your house down if you are struggling to answer them. You can figure this out, but you need to invest some time in learning about it. Find a book on basic wiring and read it. Do it right - do it safe.

But to answer your question, the ground from the supply cord should go to the screw or stud inside the motor starter. The ground running to the motor should also terminate, here. If it's a stud, each ground should have a separate lock-nut. If it's a screw, the ground wires should be joined together with a wirenut (or other suitable device) along with a pigtail that runs to this screw.

It's helpful to understand the "why": If a wire broke inside the motor, it could touch the metal motor chassis, and without a ground in place, you could touch that energized chassis and electrocute yourself. So, from a high-level: everything metal should be grounded. The ground comes in from the supply cable, then needs to ground the metal parts of the motor starter, then needs to ground the metal parts of the motor.

This! And don't rely on a contractor "who does most of his own electrical" for advice. My experience is that this type of contractor know just enough to be dangerous. You need to involve some professional help here. All the time spent researching (with dubious & incomplete results) & asking questions here could have been taken care of by a quick service call by an licensed electrician.

[Dan Friedrichs]

The last page of the starter's data sheet shows exactly how to connect that remote switch to the starter.

You should change the cable running from the remote start/stop buttons to something else - using the green wire as an ungrounded conductor is unwise.


407455

[Patrick Irish]

The last page of the starter's data sheet shows exactly how to connect that remote switch to the starter.

You should change the cable running from the remote start/stop buttons to something else - using the green wire as an ungrounded conductor is unwise.


407455

That wiring you see of the push button on/off is when it was hooked up to a 3 phase motor.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That wiring you see of the push button on/off is when it was hooked up to a 3 phase motor.

Doesn't matter. You will still have 3 wires running from the remote on/off to the starter. The control of the starter does not know if the motor is 3-phase or 1-phase.

[George Yetka]

they do have a color on them to help quickly tell the difference. Im not sure what they are because I havent needed to unplug anything since it was wired. The only non twist I have is on the ceiling, I'm not sure how I've gotten away with that for so long. Id change it but its so far up there

[Scott Bernstein]

Since you are standardized on the 30amp plugs and receptacles, I submit to you that it would have been best to wire all of the circuits for 30amp to insure there is no inadvertent, human-induced problem with plugging a tool into the "wrong" circuit. "Stuff happens". Conceivably, a tool requiring 30 amp can plug into a 20 amp line and while the breaker would certainly protect the wire from over-draw, it would "frustrating". I stuck with using 20 amp twist locks on 20 amp circuits and 30 amp twist locks on 30 amp circuits, but if I were building my shop again, I would standardize on 30 amp circuits across the board for simplicity, in all honestly, for "any tool; any outlet" flexibility. (Outside of specialty items like my CNC which requires four wire, dual voltage)

But perhaps I misunderstood you in post #14 and you did differentiate connections...I'm making an assumption base on wording of both that post and previous.

I agree. I have three 220V outlets in my garage. All are wired with 30A twist-lock, four-prong outlets (two hots, ground, and neutral). Only one machine (dust collector) requires a 30A circuit, other two (band saw, table saw) require only a 20A circuit. Overkill perhaps, but I just thought it's good to have everything the be same plug and amperage. This does mean that I have had to switch the plug on every new tool, since they all come with flat-blade style plugs. Also none of the machines, including the 5HP dust collector, actually require a separate neutral conductor. All my 220 machines need only two hots and a ground. So although the outlets are wired properly with the neutral, I do not connect the neutral to any of the machines, since there is no place to put it.

[Jim Becker]

Scott, all of my 240v circuits are three wire with the singular exception of the CNC machine which requires 4 wire. The cost of that extra conductor adds up and back when I was wiring my shop, the cost of copper was much higher than it is now.

The reason that there's no place to put a neutral conductor on your machines is that they don't require 120v for anything which is the only instance that the neutral would be used.

[Scott Bernstein]

Scott, all of my 240v circuits are three wire with the singular exception of the CNC machine which requires 4 wire. The cost of that extra conductor adds up and back when I was wiring my shop, the cost of copper was much higher than it is now.

The reason that there's no place to put a neutral conductor on your machines is that they don't require 120v for anything which is the only instance that the neutral would be used.

Yes, that is exactly correct!