Oneida Silencers

[Brian Holcombe]

Anyone using these? It's the type that bolt between the filter and the plenum. Thinking of adding it to my setup.

I added a tables and added duct to my router table so I'm going to be running my collector a lot more often. I want to avoid annoying the people in my house anymore than I already do.

I see some youtube videos showing 6-7 decibel's reduced.

They also sell a drop in silencer which claims a much larger range (2-8Db), wondering if that can't also be added.

[John K Jordan]

Some time back I read a lot about cyclone mufflers on the ClearVue and other sites. I put my entire cyclone in an insulate closet so I didn't try it may self, but from what I read insulating the exhaust is a great benefit.

If you have room for a closet it can work well. I can hear a whisper outside the closet with the cyclone running. I built it with staggered stud walls to minimize transfer of sound. If your shop is in the house a combination of the muffler and a closet with insulation all around might make the family very happy!

JKJ


Anyone using these? It's the type that bolt between the filter and the plenum. Thinking of adding it to my setup.

I added a tables and added duct to my router table so I'm going to be running my collector a lot more often. I want to avoid annoying the people in my house anymore than I already do.

I see some youtube videos showing 6-7 decibel's reduced.

They also sell a drop in silencer which claims a much larger range (2-8Db), wondering if that can't also be added.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks John, appreciate your comment.

Unfortunately the closet isn't possible in my current setup. I agree that is pretty much ideal, so I'm thinking the muffler(s) might be a good help.

[Peter Rawlings]

I installed one and didn't measure db, but it was noticeably and pleasantly quieter. The drop in style was part of original set up, so both in place now. I'd spend the money again, FWIW.

Wish I could do similar with the screaming vacuum for CNC :)

[Jim Becker]

I had an early version on my first Oneida cyclone and yes, it did reduce sound a little. In your particular setup, you might also consider hanging a blanket around the unit, particularly on the wall side to help reduce a little noise. That small garage is an echo chamber and adding some sound absorption/deflection can help a lot with machine noise.

[Andrew More]

I have the grizzly version on my G0443. I cannot hear or measure a difference. For measurement I used a crappy cell phone app. I also don't think it matters than much, mine is relatively quiet at 78-82 dbs, while most of the tools make far more noise.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Gents! Much appreciated.

Jim, that is a good idea, I think I'll hang a blanket on both sides to cut down on the deflection.

[Rod Sheridan]

It made a noticeable difference in my cyclone installation.........Rod.

[Brian Holcombe]

Glad to hear that, I bought one so I’m interested to see the effect first hand.

[Jon Singer]

am I in the wrong business. You woodworking people need to spend a little time over on the dark side. The world of race cars, burning fossil fuels, having things on your clothes or under your fingernails that cause fish-eyes or prevent paints/stains from adhering...

I could sell you pretty much all of those at half of their retail list price (in stainless and tig welded). At those prices (markups) I could put 5 kids through private schools and Ivy colleges...


https://www.oneida-air.com/ductwork/miscellaneous/exhaust-mufflers



I just asked sawmillcreek for advice on improving a ---- HF DC that I bought used on CL with a Rikon impeller. Over the last week I built a scaled down version of Bill Pentz's cyclone. I have cars and have owned a race car so naturally I built and put a silencer/resonator (exactly like the brand OP mentioned) in my system. It cost me zero --I had it laying around in scrap. I've got a newborn and the old stock HF DC system would wake up the (then pregnant/not happy) wife every time it kicked on. I only have room for one angry female in my life... Daughter, wife, two female dogs.... I had to do something.

My DC motor is mounted to a wall bracket I built with bmw transmission mounts between DC motor & housing and the bracket. And I put an inline (VERY EASY TO MAKE) silencer/resonator between the impeller exhaust and filter plenum. What I built is welded (gmaw) but you could easily drill and pop-rivet it with roofing caulk (density) or similar then wrap with lead/tar flashing.


Here's an example:

I own a small Coleman Powermate 5000W ER generator with a Techumseh 10hp 4stroke OHC motor. It comes with a spark arrestor on it --which means it's not even a muffler, it's just a contraption that prevents the engine from spitting out fire and burning stuff. (no sound considerations at all)

They (Coleman, Tecumseh) sell a "muffler" for that motor. It's expensive, hard to find used, etc.

Reality: You could spend a billion dollars on exhaust muffling but since most of the noise comes from the overhead cams/valves and the core of the motor --no amount of exhaust muffling is going to change the noise unless you put that thing in a soundproof box.


You can fold tar paper in half and then wrap your DC pipes with it, then wrap tar flashing tape over that to keep it in place (density kills the sound). Then put your DC motor/impeller in a box with a couple layers of drywall (with ventilation) and Safe'nSound... and then worry about the filter/exhaust. Circles are circles, square inches are square inches. You could easily break out the flow of a DC exhaust pipe from 6" to 12" going through individually wrapped 2" I/O resonators then bundle them and wrap the bundle.... Feed that back down to what you need and I bet Autozone/O'Reilly could get you in & out for less than the brand name you listed (and you would be quieter).


Gosh I'm in the wrong business... That's highway robbery...


Go buy a race car and try to cheat. In many classes cheating means more noise. More power means more noise. So you work on resonators and silencers that keep quiet but don't inhibit air flow --so scumbags can cheat because they can't f'ing drive...


There is millions of dollars being spent on exhaust silencing technology --all the way from airplanes (stealth bomber) to stupid NASCAR. For $600 I could build a part and possibly drive to you and install it. These companies are insane.

[Andrew Seemann]

How the cyclone is mounted is important as well. I have the factory wall mount bracket for 3 HP Dust Gorilla; it made mounting fast and simple. Unfortunately it also makes the entire wall the equivalent of a piano soundboard, transmitting the vibrations of the machine into the shop. I have a closet built around the machine filled with acoustical tile that pulls out most of the medium and high pitched frequencies, but the lower frequencies and rumble still come through the walls.

On the list of things to do, is to build an insulated closet outside of the shop and build a freestanding stand to support the cyclone. That way I can duct the air back into the shop, but (hopefully) keep most of the noise outside. I have heard of people isolating the concrete that the cyclone stands on to reduce noise as well, not sure if I will go to that extent though. I'm hoping the freestanding support will make enough of a difference. Moving it outside the shop is really more to free up the space inside more than anything:)

[Andrew More]

am I in the wrong business. You woodworking people need to spend a little time over on the dark side. The world of race cars, burning fossil fuels, having things on your clothes or under your fingernails that cause fish-eyes or prevent paints/stains from adhering...

I could sell you pretty much all of those at half of their retail list price (in stainless and tig welded). At those prices (markups) I could put 5 kids through private schools and Ivy colleges...


https://www.oneida-air.com/ductwork/miscellaneous/exhaust-mufflers


Wow, that's pretty eye opening. The Grizzly version is like $50, which seems far more reasonable. I was going to make one, but my time's worth something. I suspect that you could easily install this same muffler on a Oneida cyclone and get similar results.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Noise-Reducer-Kit-for-G0443-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/H8165

[Martin Wasner]

I don't know how much they help. We have a cyclone on our cnc and it has the foam pads inside the filters. I can't imagine they do a huge amount. I'm way too lazy to pull them out test it.

I have wondered if coating the entire system, pipe and everything, in undercoating or bedliner material how much it would quiet things down.
Wouldn't be cost effective, and the eventual alterations would be a pain in the rear. Just a curiosity.

[Brian Holcombe]

The motor is not that noisy, it's mounted on a stand that isolates the DC from the ground so it doesn't vibrate anything. The noise is air. Wrapping an electric motor strikes me as being a way to greatly increase the amount of heat that builds up in the motor.

Anywho, it's being delivered in a couple days, so I'll find out first hand.

I didn't take $200 to be too outrageous considering what it would cost me to weld out it in stainless (I don't retain much in the way of scraps) and do the testing required to get a good result.

Martin, that's my opposition to wrapping the duct as well, it's going to be hell to change anything and my shop does change from time to time.

[Peter Rawlings]

am I in the wrong business. You woodworking people need to spend a little time over on the dark side. The world of race cars, burning fossil fuels, having things on your clothes or under your fingernails that cause fish-eyes or prevent paints/stains from adhering...

I could sell you pretty much all of those at half of their retail list price (in stainless and tig welded). At those prices (markups) I could put 5 kids through private schools and Ivy colleges...


https://www.oneida-air.com/ductwork/miscellaneous/exhaust-mufflers


There is millions of dollars being spent on exhaust silencing technology --all the way from airplanes (stealth bomber) to stupid NASCAR. For $600 I could build a part and possibly drive to you and install it. These companies are insane.

The dark side? How is racing the "dark side".

Anyway, if you believe so strongly you could accomplish what you allude to, which is cut a fat hog in a fabrication business, more power to you. I'll be a customer. As will others here, I suspect.

[Jon Singer]

I don't know how much they help. We have a cyclone on our cnc and it has the foam pads inside the filters. I can't imagine they do a huge amount. I'm way too lazy to pull them out test it.

I have wondered if coating the entire system, pipe and everything, in undercoating or bedliner material how much it would quiet things down.
Wouldn't be cost effective, and the eventual alterations would be a pain in the rear. Just a curiosity.


First, Andrew, that Grizzly is only $50 because I'm assuming it's only 6". The model/manual I opened up was 65, 66, 67, 68, etc. I assume that means six inches long by 5/6/7/8 inches diameter. Think about a sound wave or wave forms, you are going to need internal baffles and redirection to kill them --so length is key. 6" long will be better than nothing, not not nearly a silver bullet.


Martin, do you know what oakum is? (it's like manilla/hemp rope fibers, untwisted) My current home was built in 1954/5. Back then they used cast iron pipes then they packed the joints with oakum and poured hot/liquid lead into it to seal the joints. When I redid our main bath the DWV (drain waste vent (the poop vent)) was cast iron with oakum joints. To be honest replacing that with PVC was probably the easiest and cheapest thing I did in our house.

The only problem was that the PVC was loud and you could hear everything through the new 1/2" crappy drywall/blue board/cement board.

When I was a punk kid I was into boom-boom car stereo systems. We would tear up our carpets and line our floors with dynamat, roofing tar paper, etc. Mass or density kills sound. You could buy a bag of Roxul Safe & sound or equivalent bag of the Pink Panther brand (owens corning) mineral/rock wool insulation. Break it out into strips then use black (tar) flashing tape to wrap your pipes. In our bathroom simply wrapping the 4" PVC DWV with two layers of flashing tape made a HUGE difference. It's about the density to absorb the sound.

If you have drywall you could always look into Green Glue. I did my home garage with Green Glue between two layers of 5/8 on the walls and two layers of 1/2 on the ceiling. It's so quiet now that I worry if I ever got hurt I'd probably yell and no one would hear me...


If you vent outside, a short resonator pre-filter combined with a longer resonator post-filter would make a huge difference.


Lots of race tracks have sound/db maximums. Many tech inspections measure sound. There's lots of info about this topic on car forums all over the place. The Aussies tend to be pretty crafty and come up with a bunch of innovative stuff for their V8's.

[Andrew More]

First, Andrew, that Grizzly is only $50 because I'm assuming it's only 6".

8" I think, with a 6" section of 10" pipe lined with foam. Doesn't seem any different from the $350-400 Oneida baffles listed, well.... other than the price!

[Brian Holcombe]

Well, the ones you mentioned you say they didn't do anything. That's a significant difference.

The difference adding the silencer was 5-6 Db for me. I added filter liner as well.

Really helps to knock it down significantly.

[Andrew More]

Well, the ones you mentioned you say they didn't do anything. That's a significant difference.

I said I could not hear or measure one, but the construction appears to be the same, so I'd expect the same results (or lack thereof). Could be I don't have mine installed correctly, or my measurements stink.

[Bill Jobe]

Wow! What is inside those things to cost that much?!!!
Are they made in Nigeria?:rolleyes:

Jon, isn't the bigger challenge to find a way to mask the smell of that nasty old yellow stuff?

[Jim Becker]

Bill, it's called the price of convenience...

[Brian Holcombe]

I said I could not hear or measure one, but the construction appears to be the same, so I'd expect the same results (or lack thereof). Could be I don't have mine installed correctly, or my measurements stink.

There was a patent number on the side of this, so likely it’s not the same thing at all.

[Brian Holcombe]

Bill, it's called the price of convenience...

Exactly :D. Between machinery mods and actual woodwork I’m working 12hrs a day plus weekends.

[Andrew More]

There was a patent number on the side of this, so likely it’s not the same thing at all.

People get patents all the time for things that are common knowledge in a specific niche. If they really had a decent patent, they should be sueing Grizzly (and Bill Pentz) for stealing their idea. Instead it's very likely it's the otherway around, since their diagrams show the same exact construction as the Bill Pentz silencers. (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/MufflerBelliveau.cfm)

A search of patents assigned to Oneida turns up their patented silencer (https://patents.google.com/patent/US7247180B1/en?q=oneida&q=silencer&oq=oneida+silencer), but it's still the same basic idea. The US patent office is notorious for bogus patents (https://www.brookings.edu/research/decreasing-the-patent-offices-incentives-to-grant-invalid-patents/)that don't take into account prior art. (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/these-experts-figured-out-why-so-many-bogus-patents-get-approved/)

You'll note that the date on the Bill Pentz page pre-dates the Oneida patent filing.

So, that additional $250-400 is for brand and dubious marketing claims from what I can tell.

[Brian Holcombe]

My logic in choosing the Oneida is simple; it's a bolt on solution, doesn't cost that much and people said here and showed in videos that it works.

Your feedback on the alternative was that it did not make a noticeable difference, that was enough for me to exclude it.

I paid $220 for the Oneida, not $350. The Pentz one shows the materials at $95 + 1.5hrs of my time. Given that I could be using that time to be productive that time has value.

I bolted it on, checked before and after with a sound device and that showed 5-6Db reduction in sound.

[Ben Rivel]

Well I mean we all should have already known Oneida over charges the heck out of pretty much everything they sell. I've proven that in my dust bin level sensor and filter efficiency threads and those were just two of the items they make/sell. We buy from them what we cant make ourselves for the compatibility and the convenience. Just like we do with pretty much every other company.

[Allan Speers]

WHy not just build an MDF box to cover the filter & plenum? Leave a little room for the air to escape.

Maybe cover the inside with something more porous, like mineral wool. Dick Wynn recommends using carpet, because it helps kill the air turbulance. I have no idea....

Anyway, simple, cheap, and probably much more effective than the commercially-available options.

[Steven Wayne]

I bought the Onieda exhaust muffler for my Clearvue in hopes it would help with some of the noise. I've never liked the way the Clearvue filter stack worked, so I took this opportunity to make an upper and lower clamp plate out of 1" baltic birch. I pocketed in for gaskets in hopes it would seal things up.

The all-thread clamp worked well. The muffler made a -3db difference when measured with an app on my iPhone. Most importantly, there's a very noticeable difference in the noise when the cyclone is running.

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[mark mcfarlane]

Well, the ones you mentioned you say they didn't do anything. That's a significant difference.

The difference adding the silencer was 5-6 Db for me. I added filter liner as well.

Really helps to knock it down significantly.

Brian, can you share what a filter liner is? Does it help with noise suppression?

[Bill Dufour]

I have read use an insulated furnace flex duct two inches larger diameter on the exhaust side. MAybe a pvc pipe and roll rockwool insulation inside leaving a clear center section.
Bill D

[Aaron Inami]

Brian, can you share what a filter liner is? Does it help with noise suppression?

I was going to wait for Brian to respond, but he has not yet. I think what he is talking about is the Oneida foam drop-in thing here:

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/system-components/filters/sound-filters/13-inch-acoustic-foam-drop-in-filter-silencer

It is about 1 foot tall and basically hangs a 1/2" thick foam around the inside of your filter. It's meant to help reduce sound sound (Oneida states 2-3db), but I did not use this and I don't know that it would help that much. 1/2" of foam doesn't do a whole lot here inside the filter itself.