So frustrated Canadian woodworker/Stallion

[Tim Cardinal]

I'm restoring an old General 350 saw that is in really nice condition. I have the base at the powder coater, and I polished the table. I called Canadian Woodworker to find a Biesemeyer fence. The sales person said "yes we have a fence like that" He said it was identical the the old Biesemeyer. I ordered it and paid $100 for delivery. The fence arrived "Stallion" and it not anything like the old Biesemeyer. Its way lighter and flimsy, also it uses a 2 x 2 angle to support a 1 5/8 x 2 3/6 tube. so the angle sits so low, that there isn't enough cast to support the rail. I have had a string of emails just trying to get them to return it and pay shipping.

The store manager was very condescending. Called me a "hobby woodworker", trying to save a buck on a saw. I have worked for 35 years in woodworking, from furniture and cabinet shops, including high end trim. I ended it by saying, "I will never buy from Canadian Woodworker again". The manager said that's OK we don't sell cheap old tools anyway.

[Greg R Bradley]

Well, "cheap old tools" beat expensive new garbage most of the time anyway.

[Tim Cardinal]

Well, "cheap old tools" beat expensive new garbage most of the time anyway.
Totally I would take an old General over any import I have seen..

[Mike Kees]

Tim where are you located ?I have only been to the Canadian Woodworker store in Calgary. Funny story though,I looked at and asked if their "Euro bandsaw" was indeed a Centauro built saw. Answer was no it is our brand,I even phoned the owner and he refused to say they were or not. They are the same saw as a Minimax s400p,except you have to pay more if you buy it from Canadian Woodworker. That is a store I go to look at stuff but have purchased very little from them.

[Marv Pelkey]

Not sure which store you were dealing with, but a while back I purchased a Stallion table saw from the Coquitlam (BC) store. The manual was for a different brand saw (with some similarities) and was completely wrong on some of the set-up instructions (bolts in wrong place etc), so had to go through multiple visits with staff (who were as confused as I was) to get things right. Spoke directly with owners son, who was indifferent and expressed little desire to actually produce a proper manual. Some time later, I bought a zero clearance insert specific to the saw. After raising the blade into the insert, discovered they had manufactured it backwards so two of the middle supports were off and did not actually support the insert (if the insert had been flipped around, the finger hole would have been in the wrong place and the blade would have cut into it). Again, staff were indifferent about the screw-up. I suspect the store is slowly moving towards industrial sales of the big (multi thousand $) machines and care less and less about hobbiest woodworkers.

Sad thing is, the saw (and other stuff) is actually a good product and has served me very well.

Marv

[Tim Cardinal]

Tim where are you located ?I have only been to the Canadian Woodworker store in Calgary. Funny story though,I looked at and asked if their "Euro bandsaw" was indeed a Centauro built saw. Answer was no it is our brand,I even phoned the owner and he refused to say they were or not. They are the same saw as a Minimax s400p,except you have to pay more if you buy it from Canadian Woodworker. That is a store I go to look at stuff but have purchased very little from them.
I'm in Salmon Arm..Dealing with the Coquitlam store...I was doing business with CWW in the 90s fantastic back then..

[Lyndon Klassen]

I recently phoned the Calgary store for some advice. No luck there. Then I phoned the Winnipeg headquarters and got a very helpful and knowledgeable person.

But I'm with Mike on Canadian Woodworker - nice to look, probably buy used.

[Tim Cardinal]

I recently phoned the Calgary store for some advice. No luck there. Then I phoned the Winnipeg headquarters and got a very helpful and knowledgeable person.

But I'm with Mike on Canadian Woodworker - nice to look, probably buy used.
I did end up talking to someone from Winnipeg, Called me a hobbyist woodworked try to save a buck trying to fix up old tools..I was also looking at getting a planer/jointer and a bandsaw..It won't be from Canadian Woodworker.

[John TenEyck]

There are a couple of companies that have made it onto my banned for life list. It sounds like Canadian Woodworker should be on yours.

John

[Marc Jeske]

Since the ORIGINAL Bies went out of production, a few small companies developed similar models.

I have never looked into them deeply, but it seems the "Very Super Cool Tools" head is quite good.

The website is very informative about fence system fabricaton...

I DID confirm from various sources, including VSCT that one CAN buy a suitable quality rectangular tube
at a basic steelyard.. and that it will NOT need machining.

There are certainly archived threads about Bies alternatives.

Really too bad the USA original is no longer made.

Marc

https://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/

[Lisa Starr]

Wanted to vouch for Marc's comments. I did in fact purchase the VSCT fence system and made my own rails. The structural steel angle and box tubing is readily available and worked fine. As for the head and 80/20, I love it. The fence adjusts easily and stays put. I'd never consider buying one of today's "Biesemeyer" fences. All that is left of it is the name!

[Tim Cardinal]

Wanted to vouch for Marc's comments. I did in fact purchase the VSCT fence system and made my own rails. The structural steel angle and box tubing is readily available and worked fine. As for the head and 80/20, I love it. The fence adjusts easily and stays put. I'd never consider buying one of today's "Biesemeyer" fences. All that is left of it is the name!

Live and learn, I had a Biesemeyer fence for years, when we moved back to Canada from the US I sold all my machines thinking it would be too expensive to move them. I am regretting this now. I emailed VSCT about shipping to Canada didn't hear back. I think there fence would rock...

[Marc Jeske]

Allan at VSCT was VERY friendly and knowledgeable over phone.

Took his time, and even starting chatting about this and that a bit.

I would email or call him again... I really don't think he would purposely not respond.

Marc

https://vsctools.com/contact/

[Bruce Wrenn]

I don't know about the rules in Canada, but in US my first source of satisfaction would be my CC holder. There are several videos on you tube of how to make Biesemeyer clone fences. I've made several, but that was before you tube. Yes stock steel works. The front angle is 2 X 3 in either 3/16", or 1/4" thickness. Fence tube is 2 X 3 14 gauge. Hardest part is finding cam lock and 5/8 X 2 X3 spacer for fence tube. Pm me if you want more details

[Marc Jeske]

The way I figure it.. the only side of the rect tube I really care about is that the "inside" side 3/4" or whatever it is from the Mounting Angle iron does not have surface irregularities that the bearing pads do not span.

THAT is the most critical side.

Any deviation of un squareness at the head will of course multiply along the fence.

The second most critical side is the top side of the rect tube I don't care TOO much about...it does not matter much end result... again, within reason..



The last side, the side that the cam locks on.. makes NO diff if it deviates a few thou... it ONLY affects the cam locking action.

And, the straightness you check at the Steelyard w like a 6' straightedge... NO bigee either.. at least within reason... cause you tweak that super straight when you tighten your bolts going through the O size holes in the Angle.

My thoughts.

Marc

[Cole Moore]

This is my first post to this forum as I felt I should respond to the negative title of this post as well as a couple comments made on it. First to the title of this thread. At no time did Canadian Woodworker tell Mr. Cardinal that we were selling him a "Biesemeyer" brand fence. We do not sell or market Biesemeyer fence since General stopped making them in Canada and since they became so expensive. Personally I have sold over 1000 Biesemeyer fences in the 80's and 90's...yes I am old...haha. There are many T-Square style fences on the market today all designed after the original Biesemeyer T-Square design including Delta, Laguna, SawStop, Powermatic, Jet, Busy Bee and yes...Stallion. The Stallion fence is very similar to the "Home Shop" version of the Biesemeyer fence and is a very good quality fence at a very reasonable price. We feel we have gone to great lengths of information to help Mr. Cardinal retrofit the Stallion fence to his General saw as he originally wanted to do but seems to have changed his mind. (any fence he purchases will need to be retrofitted) We have made sure he knows we are available anytime to help him with the project. We have also told him numerous times that he is welcome to return the Stallion fence for a full refund if he so chooses. His concern is that he lives 6 hours away from our store and does not want to pay the shipping costs to return the fence to us..... instead wanting us to pay his shipping costs. We have offered to sell him the Biesemeyer fence (yes it is still available from Delta) or the SawStop Fence both of which are made of the larger angle iron and tubing that he now wants, but both are almost triple the price of the Stallion fence.
We stand by our Stallion fence as a very good fence and certainly Mr Cardinal can return it to us for a full refund if he so chooses. Canadian Woodworker has been servicing hobby and commercial woodworkers for 51 years...an accomplishment we take pride in.

The CWI brand of machinery is new and now one of the most comprehensive ranges of high quality woodworking machinery available today. It has grown very quickly which of course we have experienced some growing pains like good manuals. Just like any other "Brand" of machinery like Laguna, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, the CWI brand does not divulge the names of the factories that build their equipment as they want to promote the brand as "CWI" so its stands on its own two feet. CWI has over 35 factories building equipment in Europe, Taiwan and China. The Stallion saw Mr. Pelkey purchased is a very popular saw for us and does now in fact have a very good manual but admittedly the first ones did not deal well with mounting the upgraded Stallion fence for that saw. We still have a ways to go in producing in house manuals which we will continue to do but yes some of the factory supplied manuals leave a little to be desired. We do though try our best to make sure all our staff are fully up to speed and available to help our customers with any concerns or issues in assembling their machinery purchased from us. I personally am always available for customers to voice any concerns to me if our staff support somehow doesn't meet our customers' expectations.

Cole Moore
Canadian Woodworker Ltd
Phone 204-786-3196
Fax 204-783-6867
Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Coquitlam, Vaughan

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for the post. I'm glad to see a company response here - it's always helpful to hear both sides of a story. Like most times, I'll bet the actual circumstances - and the solution - are mid-way between both perspectives.

Fred

[Frank Pratt]

And after all the posts dumping on Canadian Woodworker, I think I should post my experience with them. I bought a 6" jointer & 17" drill press there, as well as accessories, consumables etc. Never had a bad experience & they were even able to track down a dust collector adapter for my Delta planer. That was when Delta parts were virtually unavailable.

When I got the drill press, it was a General promo day & when you made a purchase you could draw for a coupon of unknown value. Mine was for $500 off, so I was pretty happy about that.

[Josh Kocher]

"Ask Woodman" aka VSCT guy does a very good and very comprehensive Youtube on making your own rails for a Beismeyer fence. Very straight forward...

FWIW, and I don't know anything about Stalin or Canada Woodworker... but it's easy to get mistaken on the size of Beismeyer fence you are looking at... I have 2 Beismeyer fences both made in Canada by General, one is the heavier tube and heavier fence that came on a 650, the other is a lighter one on a contractor saw... I didn't realize there was a difference in sizes available until I had the second one in my shop, they look identical until you put them together... I thought I'd be able to use them both on the same rail like leave one set on the router end as required... not so much...

Hope you sort out your fence... best thing IMO is send it back, cut your losses, and move on... get what you want...

[Tim Cardinal]

"Ask Woodman" aka VSCT guy does a very good and very comprehensive Youtube on making your own rails for a Beismeyer fence. Very straight forward...

FWIW, and I don't know anything about Stalin or Canada Woodworker... but it's easy to get mistaken on the size of Beismeyer fence you are looking at... I have 2 Beismeyer fences both made in Canada by General, one is the heavier tube and heavier fence that came on a 650, the other is a lighter one on a contractor saw... I didn't realize there was a difference in sizes available until I had the second one in my shop, they look identical until you put them together... I thought I'd be able to use them both on the same rail like leave one set on the router end as required... not so much...

Hope you sort out your fence... best thing IMO is send it back, cut your losses, and move on... get what you want...
I have it mounted to the saw and will be looking for something better, I need the saw for a bar i'm building for a customer.