Spiral Cutter Heads

[Jack Frederick]

I have a Delta 37-190 6" jointer and the Dewalt DW-735 planer. I am considering spiral cutters for both, but likely the jointer first, as my current blades didn't stand up very well to that nail. Is it worth it on a lower powered jointer to make the investment in these cutters? I have heard that spirals can pull the power down some as the spirals are pretty much always engaged in the wood. Is there a preferred brand of spirals?

[Carl Beckett]

I would not make this investment, I would upgrade the tools to a heavier class first (then put spiral heads on that if still not satisfied with performance)

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m against the spiral head in a jointer. Insert heads take more power and feed pressure making it difficult to flatin thinner stock. Carbide just doesn’t cut wood like Good Hss.
Setting jointer knives does take practice and patience.
But that’s woodworking in a nutshell. There’s no getting around it.

[Mike Kees]

I agree with both of the other posts. First I would not upgrade those machines. Second Andrew has a good point about feed pressure and power required to turn a segmented head. I used to own that jointer,it worked well for me for quite a few years till I found an 8'' machine. If you get some quality HSS knives it will work noticeably better than with the original knives.I buy knives with 18% tungsten content,they cost more but last far longer.

[Robert Engel]

Well, I'll go against the flow and say yes I think it is a good idea. At least, I'm glad I did it. Aside from a better surface, and less noise, the cutters lasts WAY longer than knives. I didn't rotate the cutters for over a year, and that is with daily use.

There some instances where a spiral jointer is going to be a huge advantage such as figured wood.

Yes, there is a higher amp draw, but it depends on the depth of cut. Generally you overcome this by taking lighter cuts. My jointer is 8" with a 2HP motor and I've never experienced a power issue, even with 1/8" deep cuts.

So I say you won't regret it on either of those machines.

[George Makra]

You know I really have to take amp readings but as far as I can tell the carbide head taking more amps to spin sure sounds like another internet myth.
Here is what I do know I have a older Delta Rockwell thickness planer that I swapped out from knives to a Byrd head the sound is different but probably not as high pitched.
I can cut 3/8 off of ancient oak barn wood all day long to the tune of 100 gallons of chips a day and never even had the lights flicker.

As far as I am concerned both styles are good but none leave you a perfect finish so it still needs to be addressed by either hand planing or sanding.
Then it becomes a matter of preference.

[Carl Beckett]

I wasnt commenting on spiral cutter head merit as much as whether this class of machine warranted expensive upgrade.

imo, a 6" jointer (about $150 - $200 used in my area) is not worth investing much into because you are likely to want to upgrade to a larger machine at some point. 8" is a minimum 12" preferred. Even a 12" or 16" combo is within striking distance of what two spiral heads will cost and would be much better equipment capability.

(or maybe I am off base on cost of spiral heads, I always thought they were expensive - certainly more than the cost of a used 6" jointer).

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a Pm 15 hh planer. It’s quite and will plane away wood with nasty glue or even paint on the edges. But the depth of cut is very shallow not because of the small 3hp motor. But because inserts have a 30 degree face bevel. This is much different then a straight knife where the bevel is on the back of the knife.
I just think it’s better to have more positive rake in a jointer.
I think a lot of guys get fooled buy the looks of a insert head. It has a very small rake.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hello Jack, I personally wouldn't invest in either of those machines.

Sell both of them and buy yourself a 12 inch jointer/planer with spiral head.............Regards, Rod.

[Brian Nguyen]

Why does everyone suggest spending $$$ on bigger, badder machines without asking the OP as to why he chose his current equipment? Nine posts in and no one answered his question: The preferred brand of spiral cutterhead for his machine.

Jack--do you have space and/or monetary constraints that's going to prevent you from upgrading?

Anyways, look into the Byrd Shelix to see if they have one that fit your Delta jointer. They definitely have one that fit the Dewalt planer. Good luck.

[Frank Pratt]

He asked if it was worth upgrading the cutter heads & people answered. When I post a question I would hope I would get more than just a yes or no answer. People are just qualifying their reasoning. That's a good thing & promotes discussion & thought.

I might upgrade that planer if I was going through lots of knives. It is a good planer in its class. Leaving a better surface finish is the last reason to consider though. No planer, no matter how good, leaves a finish ready surface. So the choice between a good & pretty good surface is irrelevant. If you can get less tear out with the spiral head then that is a valid reason.

I would even consider the jointer though. It's only 6" & not a very good one at that. Put the money towards a better, larger jointer.

[George Yetka]

I would say get a new set of blades for your Planer and start squirreling away money to upgrade in the future.
I had some good times with that planer but the knives were a pain. upgrading this wouldnt be a bad idea. but like others said make sure you dont bog down the motor with heavy passes.
A combo machine is a huge investment, Hammers 12" is over 5000 but there are other things that you could do such as an 8" jointer that comes with a HH

[Mark Carlson]

Tough one. I'd upgrade for sure if the jointer was 8in and the planer was a 15in. My 1st jointer was a 6in powermatic. I upgraded it to a Byrd head because I hated adjusting knives. 7 years later I still have the jointer and havn't rotated the knives yet. Starting to think about it though. I dont notice a power issue but I dont ever make deep cuts. Bought a 12in J/P a couple of years ago and kept the powermatic. Its really handy to have and I use it for edge jointing and face jointing narrow stock. The J/P also has a Byrd head. So if you have no plans of replacing the Delta ever, I'd upgrade. The Dewalt planer is tougher for me because I wonder about how long that thing is designed to last and its a really expensive upgrade. Good luck with your choice.

Update: Just googled the delta and noticed it has pretty small tables so I wouldn't upgrade that either.

[Andrew Hughes]

I often wonder how many woodworkers that complain about short hss blade life run dirty lumber over and under their machines.
Wood stacked in dirt or gravel driveways.
I can’t be the only one that’s seen a You tube video showing freshly set knives making test cuts on pressure treated wood or something picked up from the ground.
I wonder how long this spiral head madness with spiral.
I would like to compare this innovation to dovetail jigs that first appeared. When was that 50s or 60s.

[Jack Frederick]

Much obliged for the variety of responses and depth of advise. It is all good and exactly what I needed. As a hobbyist, a retired hobbyist, there is no way I can justify the combi machine. When we sold out of MA and chased the kids to CA a lot of my big power tools didn't make the move..sob! I picked this 6" up for short money and it has been satisfactory. I bought the planer when they first came out, so, what, 15 yrs old. I have resources, but at 70 in my first year of retirement, I am playing the game of how little can I spend. It seems sensible, but then again, some things you just have to have;) Any of the mid-range machines/manuf you would suggest in the jointer and planer categories? Thanks again!

[Andrew More]

I often wonder how many woodworkers that complain about short hss blade life run dirty lumber over and under their machines.

Totally anecdotal I know, but I managed to a pretty good nick in my old planer blades with running some soft southern yellow pine from a big box store through it the within the first few passes after sharpening and polishing. I do not store the material on the ground, and it had no obvious problems.

I now have a new Grizzly G0490x with a helical cutter head. I know it's lazy on my part, but I just couldn't go through hours of sharpening and setting knives just to have it ruined by what appeared to be a perfectly fine board. I've also got two young kids, so trading money for time appeals. YMMV

[Andrew Hughes]

That’s sounds completely legit.
I also have that happen to me on occasion I don’t know what it is about soft lumber but it picks up stuff so easily and if it’s the same color that makes it very hard to see.

[Mike Kees]

Jack if you are not in a hurry look for used machines, as far as what to get I would suggest a 15''four post planer and 8'' jointer as a nice place to land for most furniture work.As far as brands planer wise they are all about the same machine,I would buy the one in the best condition. Jointers I would prefer old Rockwell/delta,Powermatic or a Canadian made General. However if I found any machine in good shape with flat tables and a straight fence and the right price I would buy that one.Good luck,and remember we are all not afraid to spend your money. Only you can determine if you need or want to upgrade. Mike.

[Mike Wilkins]

Like many others on this site, you will get a case of upgrade-itis at some time in the future as your skills and project needs advance. You will want a jointer with more capacity for larger projects. My own progression was from a Craftsman bench top 4 inch jointer, a Jet 6" jointer, a Chinese made 12" jointer/planer, and finally a Hammer 16" combo machine with the spiral cutter head.
Personally I would save my pennies for a bigger machine in the future.

[Martin Siebert]

Several years ago I was pretty much in the same situation. I had a 735 and a used 6" PM jointer. The Byrd would have doubled the cost of the 735 and I knew I needed a larger planer anyways. I did get a Byrd for the PM jointer. I knew I needed a bigger jointer too, but I figured since it is a long bed Powermatic I could at least get some of the money back when it was time to upgrade. I liked the performance of the Byrd Shelix enough that I bought a 20" PM planer with the Byrd as well. I kept the jointer and still use it on occasion.
Your Delta is a nice machine, so I would say if you are satisfied with the size go ahead with a Byrd cutter head. You will not regret it. That said, I have said before, the Byrd is not quite all it's hyped up to be. Don't look for way quieter and zero tear out. It's slightly quieter but not enough to worry about and of course anything is subject to some tear out. I will add the high amp draw and hard to push things are not true of mine or the ones I have used. Something else not mentioned is the cost of replacing {replacing, not turning} the inserts...close to $400 plus on that 20 " planer. Well over $100 for a typical 6" jointer.
It's a toss up on the 735...it is a good machine, and I don't know how long they are meant to last, but I can tell you how long mine has lasted. Put it this way, it for certain don't own me anything!!! I have run a lot of board feet thru that little thing and it wasn't all pine. In fact, it was mostly hickory, oak and cherry. The other thing regarding the 735 is that while it is a straight knife machine, it does not require the two hour piddle party with a dial indicator to set the blades. Mine also cut very smooth, so again...I don't know on the Byrd for that.
If, on the other hand, you feel like you need a 12" jointer then don't spend money on anything but that!!!

[John Goodin]

I bought the Byrd from Holbren for my 735. I don’t have a compliant. When considering price the Byrd cutters are four sided and you only have to replace a few cutters if something nasty is hidden in the wood.

[Steve Reich]

Jack: I recommend that you watch the two review videos that Stumpy Nubs did, which directly addresses your question as well as some of the other points of discussion raised in the thread. He switched to spiral cutters on smaller machines like many of us have. The first video is an initial review and then he did a second one that reviewed the upgrade two years later.

I have the 735, which I bought on Craigslist. It came with three sets of knives. When I wear out the third set (currently on the second), I anticipate upgrading to spiral cutters. My jointer is fairly new (Jet Model JJ-6CSDX with quick set knives) and haven't had to sharpen and reset the knives yet. If that process is simple enough, I'll stay put with that.

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https://youtu.be/jwlhrEW4oe4

[Tony Leonard]

I have the 735. I installed a Byrd head several years ago. I have been very happy with it. One thing I really appreciate about it is being able to plane figured wood with no tearout. I have no idea about the power. Don't really care. Its hard to beat the glass smooth surface from a fresh set of knives, but, the carbide cutters give me a plenty good enough surface for my way of working I guess.

I've considered upgrading the head on my Grizzly 6" jointer. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking I'll upgrade to an 8", so I'm hesitant. Meanwhile, the old Griz is still doing a good job.

Let me qualify my experience. I am a hobby woodworker. Small shop in the back yard. I work with mahogany, walnut, maple, cherry. Almost never any oak. Build mostly furniture.

Anyway, good luck with it.

Tony

[Robert Hazelwood]

Bigger machines are better if there are no other considerations, but if a 6" jointer and lunchbox planer are big enough for the work you do, and you don't think you'll be likely to upgrade, then it shouldn't hold you back from considering an upgrade.

That said, I have straight knives in my lunchbox planer and 8" jointer and have not had significant issues with tearout. I do not do a lot of highly figured woods, but I've fed plenty of boards through with grain reversals that would cause a hand plane to tear out (if the cap iron is not set closely), and the machines have little trouble. So far I've not felt a need, and since I'll be hand planing to a finish anyways minor tearout from the machines would not be a major problem. I also think that Andrews' point about the higher cutting pressure required on a spiral-equipped jointer is worth considering. If I ever did go for a spiral head, I think I would do the planer first, since after you get the second face flat you can remove any tearout from the jointed face by flipping the piece and taking an extra pass.

[Roger Feeley]

I have a Pm 15 hh planer. It’s quite and will plane away wood with nasty glue or even paint on the edges. But the depth of cut is very shallow not because of the small 3hp motor. But because inserts have a 30 degree face bevel. This is much different then a straight knife where the bevel is on the back of the knife.
I just think it’s better to have more positive rake in a jointer.
I think a lot of guys get fooled buy the looks of a insert head. It has a very small rake.

Andrew,
I also have a Powermatic 15HH that I like. My one frustration is that I have to sort of sneak up on the wood for that first cut. Some planers have a depth of cut gauge on them. What do you do?

I do have a digital readout and I suppose I could use a caliper, read the thickness and then adjust. It just seems to me that some sort of bar that hangs down in front of the infeed that reads the high spot on the wood makes more sense.

[Andrew Hughes]

Roger I just give my best guess. Does your planer have this depth limitation?
I try to guess the highest point that will fit under this thing. Usually I end up feeding everything through barely taking a cut.
Sometimes it’s kinda annoying
Good luck

[Jack Frederick]

Well, I solved a part of the issue yesterday picking up the Grizzly GO-490 8" with a spiral CH, which Martin had in the classifieds. A very substantial upgrade for me. Martin is a gentleman and it was nice meeting him.

[Chapel Eastland]

If I was in the OP's shoes, I'd buy the helical cutter for the Dewalt. The 735 is a great thickness planer and the helical cutter head will outlast, and in my opinion, do a better job.

However, I wouldn't invest in a helical cutter for a 6" jointer, but rather save up and look at an 8" with an installed helical cutter. It will most likely need 220v.

I'm not sure where the concern about "amperage" is based. Unless you have an iffy workshop electrical supply, it shouldn't be a concern. If you are concerned about your iffy workshop electrical supply that's where your money should go to fix it up. As so many power tools need 10 or more amps, your 120v should be on a 20 amp breaker and your 220 on a 20 amp breaker as well.

Recently I upgraded my shop with an additional 5 220v circuits and 8 20 amp 120v circuits. I wouldn't take a chance on less, but that's me.

Good luck with the Dewalt planer. I think you'll find the $400 bucks for the Byrd cutter is money well spent.