Thinking about an old Martin T75 sliding table saw for solid wood

[Chris Balton]

Lately I have been thinking about upgrading from my fixed table Oliver 270 table saw to a sliding table saw. I recently looked at a Martin T75 locally that had a 8 foot table, I liked the quality of the saw and the depth of cut would be a nice bonus over the Oliver. But since my shop is only 25 x 25 feet, I passed on it due to the size. I mainly use solid wood, and if I ever need to cut panels, I have a Festool track system.

My question is, what table saws with sliding tables should I consider? I am looking for an older machine to keep the costs down. I have heard that there are short table Martin sliders, but I have found it very difficult to find any information about older Martin models, so it is hard to compare the specifications to saws like an Oliver 88D, which is not too hard to find.

Am i crazy to want to find an old Martin?

thanks,
Chris

[Patrick Walsh]

If your crazy then I must be nuts..

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?269082-Vintage-Martin-T75-restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

The saw of your dreams..

https://www.solidwoodmachinery.com/martin-t17/

[Patrick Walsh]

FYI my shop is like 25x60 and this saw will fit just fine.

I’d buy marks saw. It’s worth every penny..

[Chris Balton]

The saw of your dreams..

https://www.solidwoodmachinery.com/martin-t17/
That's it! Dreams is the operative word though, out of my price range. I will have to take a look at the description of the restoration process. Thanks for the link, I also noticed some specifications, this is very helpful

[David Kumm]

Do you need a long stroke? There are lots of old iron short stroke sliders, including the 270, although the design of the Oliver sliding table is less than ideal. Dave

[Chris Balton]

I could not resist, I took the plunge and purchased a T17 sight unseen. I have never been one to shy away from a project and put all rationality aside once I get an idea in my head, and this time is no different. After unpacking the saw and vacuuming a 55 gallon drum worth of plexiglass and aluminum shavings out, I noticed a couple of things that need to be taken care of.

1. The riving knife bracket is broken off and the broken off piece is gone. I will have to fabricate a new mount. Can someone take some photos of what it should look like? A new piece will have to be fabricated and either bolted or welded on.
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2. The arbor is 1.25" and appears to have a couple thousandths of wear. I noticed that the arbor nut thread is smaller than 1" (22 or 23 mm?). I was thinking about turning the arbor down to either 30mm or 1". 1" would be nice since I have quite a few 1" arbor blades and they are more common than 30mm. Would that be a terrible thing to do? I will have to bush the outer blade flange, but that should be pretty easy.
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3. Can anyone help me estimate the year of manufacture? The rip fence casting looks different than most of the photos, I have seen, the edges seem to be more rounded. It also does not have ball bearings under the bottom where it rides inside the front rail like what I have seen on what I assume are the later saws. The serial number is - 73802
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4. There is an adjustable pointer in the rip fence to read the fence position. It does not look original, does someone have a photo of what the pointer should look like? ( I posted a photo of mine below)409265

thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Chris

[Darcy Warner]

1973. I would see if the arbor really needs any work.

The dado arbors were spin on, over those threads.

I have drawings and have a few arbors, nuts and flanges made.

I am getting ready to dig into a 17 as well.

[Joe Calhoon]

Chris,
i just picked up a T17 for restoration. Yours looks like an older model, 60s or n 70s. The date is usually not in the serial number on these. My old T75 had a serial number that I thought indicated it was made in the 70s. When I checked with the factory it was a 1968. Starting mid 70s or so they started putting the year of manufacture on the machines.

Yours has 2 slots for the miter. That is nice as the later ones only have one. Did you get a miter gauge? I would like to see what they look like.
Too bad about the riving knife bracket. Here are some pictures of what it looks like. Mine has the original square nut but I think the washers are either original modified or fabricated. I have a request into the factory to see what is available for spares and should know by mid week. The cross fence on mine is missing the chipbreaker and has a broken piece on the end stop. Most of these had the fence with thee wood piece under. I believe this was the last fence they put on the T75 and T17. I noticed one of Darcy’s T75s had this fence in one of his videos. I am going to restore this fence but plan to find a short fence that will work better in the saws location for now.

I spent a couple days cleaning and trueing up the sliding table on mine. I put it through the paces in the shop last week doing work that is normally done on the T72 just to see what it needs before tearing into it.

[Joe Calhoon]

Here are some pictures of mine. Sliding table extensions are off as I started working on those.

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[Patrick Walsh]

Sorry to interrupt. If it’s a problem please say so.

Joe, wen you. Say “last fence Martin put on these saws” are you speaking of the one one I have on my machine. I’m still trying to figure out the exact year of my saw. There was no date on the underside of the cast table. There is the machine badge and a repeated number all over the machine starting with 74 but that’s it.

Also if you do get the riving knife parts sorted let me know as my machine came with no riving knife. Honestly I don’t use one, I guess I should. I probably won’t use it even if I get one but I figure the machine is nearly complete so why not continue the trend.

A picture of the arbor on my T75. I’m pretty sure many of these pieces are universal or interchangeable on many of these machines from year to year to year and t75 to t17. I could be wrong.

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[Jim Becker]

While I cut some sheet goods as necessary by particular projects, I'm first and foremost a solid stock woodworker...and I love my slider. I almost never edge joint at this point. I flatten and thickness at the J/P and then straight-line on the slider wagon followed by parallel ripping with a "Fritz and Franz" jig to width on the wagon. Rarely do I use the rip fence and then it's most often for either convenience or for something narrow that works nicely with the fence in the lower configuration. My slider has an 8'6" wagon which is more than adequate for my needs. And crosscutting repeatability and accuracy is just plain awesome. I have a scoring blade and honestly, even that comes in handy for solid stock sometimes for uber-clean cross cuts. So if you can find a machine that fits your budget...go for it.

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick,

I think this was their first 2 point fence and it came after the fence like yours with the wood piece on the bottom. This one telescopes out to about 11 feet. I have seen these on the old T70s but they soon went to the improved 2 point like is on my T72. This one can be moved fore and aft without turning it. The manual fence on the T73 is much improved over this one but as you mentioned very spendy to buy.

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I will I’ll let you know about the riving knife. I am not a safety nazi and never used a riving knife the first 25 years of my career. But after using one for the last 20 on the T72 I find it very uncomfortable to be without. Same goes for the adjustable overhead guard with dust collection. It will be a must have item on this saw. Not cheap either.

the arbor assembly and riving setup looks the same to me.



[QUOTE=Patrick Walsh;2924148]Sorry to interrupt. If it’s a problem please say so.

Joe, wen you. Say “last fence Martin put on these saws” are you speaking of the one one I have on my machine. I’m still trying to figure out the exact year of my saw. There was no date on the underside of the cast table. There is the machine badge and a repeated number all over the machine starting with 74 but that’s it.

Also if you do get the riving knife parts sorted let me know as my machine came with no riving knife. Honestly I don’t use one, I guess I should. I probably won’t use it even if I get one but I figure the machine is nearly complete so why not continue the trend.

A picture of the arbor on my T75. I’m pretty sure many of these pieces are universal or interchangeable on many of these machines from year to year to year and t75 to t17. I could be wrong.

[Joe Calhoon]

Jim,
i agree. I roll my eyes when people say large format sliders are only for sheet goods or will be replaced by CNC. They are the Jack of all trades for crosscutting and ripping any material.




While I cut some sheet goods as necessary by particular projects, I'm first and foremost a solid stock woodworker...and I love my slider. I almost never edge joint at this point. I flatten and thickness at the J/P and then straight-line on the slider wagon followed by parallel ripping with a "Fritz and Franz" jig to width on the wagon. Rarely do I use the rip fence and then it's most often for either convenience or for something narrow that works nicely with the fence in the lower configuration. My slider has an 8'6" wagon which is more than adequate for my needs. And crosscutting repeatability and accuracy is just plain awesome. I have a scoring blade and honestly, even that comes in handy for solid stock sometimes for uber-clean cross cuts. So if you can find a machine that fits your budget...go for it.

[Patrick Walsh]

Joe thanks for the response.

I’m far from a safety nazi but not apposed. I have just got used to the saws at work and the guys always ran them without riding knives. At least on the table saw “pm 66” we go back and forth hourly with a thin cuff plywood blade and rip blade so a diving knife is a pain in the rear more than anything. As a result I am now so used to paying attention to what’s going on on the back side of the blade that when I work at home I don’t bother with the roving knife anymore. The fact is I should put one on this saw as it can never hurt and when working at home time is never a consideration.

Dust much the same. Food dust collection is expensive and time consuming to setup. Sadly the boss has not been able to afford getting it to the point a overhead guard would do much as the dust created elsewhere in the shop is insane. Plus you know I use the slider to both rip and cross cut and that darn overhead guard gets in the way when ripping from the slider side of the machine.

Let me know on the parts. Hopefully someday we find a way for me to repay your generosity.


Patrick,

I think this was their first 2 point fence and it came after the fence like yours with the wood piece on the bottom. This one telescopes out to about 11 feet. I have seen these on the old T70s but they soon went to the improved 2 point like is on my T72. This one can be moved fore and aft without turning it. The manual fence on the T73 is much improved over this one but as you mentioned very spendy to buy.

409294

I will I’ll let you know about the riving knife. I am not a safety nazi and never used a riving knife the first 25 years of my career. But after using one for the last 20 on the T72 I find it very uncomfortable to be without. Same goes for the adjustable overhead guard with dust collection. It will be a must have item on this saw. Not cheap either.

the arbor assembly and riving setup looks the same to me.



[QUOTE=Patrick Walsh;2924148]Sorry to interrupt. If it’s a problem please say so.

Joe, wen you. Say “last fence Martin put on these saws” are you speaking of the one one I have on my machine. I’m still trying to figure out the exact year of my saw. There was no date on the underside of the cast table. There is the machine badge and a repeated number all over the machine starting with 74 but that’s it.

Also if you do get the riving knife parts sorted let me know as my machine came with no riving knife. Honestly I don’t use one, I guess I should. I probably won’t use it even if I get one but I figure the machine is nearly complete so why not continue the trend.

A picture of the arbor on my T75. I’m pretty sure many of these pieces are universal or interchangeable on many of these machines from year to year to year and t75 to t17. I could be wrong.

[Brian Holcombe]

I wouldn't cut that shaft down, the saw is made to handle fairly large blades and I would not want them running on anything smaller than OEM.

Try and source a new one from Martin, have a new one made or have that one repaired. I can't imagine that people part these machines out all to commonly, but maybe.

A saw blade on that shaft will probably vibrate and if it vibrates it will kill the bearings.

[peter gagliardi]

I am almost positive you will find the date of your saw cast into the underside of it. Only difference is, it won’t be in the same order as it is here in the US.
We do MM/DD/YEAR, the saw will probably have it as DD/MM/YEAR.
Here is my T17 top.
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[Joe Calhoon]

Peter, since I know mine is 1977 I will look tomorrow to see what the top says. If I can see it. Thinking they probably age the castings for year - years?

[Darcy Warner]

Don't reduce the arbor size. Pull it out, take it and have it built up with hard chrome an OD ground back to 1 1/4"

[peter gagliardi]

I would agree about doing what is necessary to keep the existing arbor size. 1 1/4” will be far more useful when finding tooling and blades I believe.

[Darcy Warner]

I would agree about doing what is necessary to keep the existing arbor size. 1 1/4” will be far more useful when finding tooling and blades I believe.

Plus the spin on dado arbor is 1 1/4" and set up to work with just how that arbor is.

[Patrick Walsh]

Tell us more bout this spin on dado arbor.

You lost me with spin on....


Plus the spin on dado arbor is 1 1/4" and set up to work with just how that arbor is.

[Darcy Warner]

Tell us more bout this spin on dado arbor.

You lost me with spin on....

It spins on the arbor and bottoms out at the shoulder of the 1 1/4" part of the regular arbor.

I think Martin wanted like 3k for one, basically to get you to say no. I have one and had drawing made and a few made for saws I had.

[Joe Calhoon]

Good advice on the arbor. I would also add that if you had it turned down to 30mm that could work also depending on tooling you want to use. That is what these saws sold in Europe came with.

I tried to find a date on my cast top but could not see anything. Might have to wait until it comes off. My shaper top did not have any dates. Might have been an earlier trend.

One puzzle on my T17 are these spring pressured bolts with aluminum disks to tighten. They seem to be original from the paint on the back side. Any idea what these are for? Maybe to hold a fixture of some sort.

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[Darcy Warner]

Don't think I have them on my 17

[Joe Calhoon]

Never seen them on any either Darcy

[peter gagliardi]

Not on mine either Joe.

[Joe Calhoon]

Took a trip down the backroad today to look at my old T75.
here is what the splitter - riving knife holder (cannot remember the proper term for this type.) looks like. So I guess the one on my T17 is original. Just has one of the ears cut off. This one has a nice handle built into the square nut. The carriage type bolt has a snap ring to keep it in position. The one here was mangled as was the one on my 17. Believe they are original.

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[Chris Balton]

I want to thank everyone for their help and the good information. I will take closer look at the arbor before doing anything to it, I need to spend some time with a dial indicator and a micrometer to check it out thoroughly. I will have to remove the arbor and bearing assembly to repair the riving knife bracket anyway.

Regarding the date of the saw, I looked under the table and could not find a date, there was a set of letters cast into the bottom, if it was a date it was in code.

Here are photos of the miter gauges, the right one is super ugly, so ugly you might want to avert your eyes, and is quite different from the left side. I don't think the slot on the right side is original, I think someone added it later.

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thanks,
Chris

[joe milana]

Thanks for the riving knife bracket pictures Joe. My t-75 is missing it's as well, and is super annoying as small off cuts want to curve around the back of the spinning blade, and potentially launch. If nothing available from Martin, it looks like a fairly easy fabrication. A source for a riving knife would help.

Here's a picture of the rip fence pointer. The set screw just below adjusts the position of the pointer.
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[peter gagliardi]

You can order riving knives direct from Martin- at least you could a couple years ago. I think they run around $60-70.00 each.

[Joe Calhoon]

The riving knife off my newer Martin fit after I ground a little off the nubbin on the holder. I have a parts list for the old T75 that lists the splitter parts as well as many others. A lot of this will work on T17. Anyone wants this I can PM it.
they have the replacement ruler in stock in Charlotte. Only in mm though. Don’t know if it’s solid brass they just list it as yellow. I ordered one.

My arbor is not original and would like to replace it. Unfortunately they don’t have these anymore for the T17 or 75 and also say no drawings. Will see what I have when I tie into it.

Chris, can you post a picture of the miter gauge runner? Assuming it’s dovetailed.

My furniture maker friend gave me one off my old saw but will need to make a runner. Yours on the left is Martin for sure.

This saw is 1968 has the engraved wheel, the metal Martin plate and the older style fence. The newer ball bearing one is nice but this one is very substantial. Saw is still in good shape and I have a standing offer to buy it back if he ever sells.
I apologize in advance for the bad paint job. This was my first machinery repaint 30 years ago. Thought I had the color matched close but it looks like a John Deere.

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[joe milana]

Is Martin tools in Charlotte the contact to check for replacement parts?

[peter gagliardi]

Yes, Al is who I remember talking to, but I think Joe said they had some personnel changes recently so....

[Joe Calhoon]

Talk to Harald there. He is the new parts guy and trying real hard to acquire some of the old parts still available.

[joe milana]

As far as parts numbers, this is all I have, and unfortunately German.
409533

[Darcy Warner]

I believe my 17 has two miter slots in main table.

Joe- I will have the arbor out of mine soon, let me know if you want measurements or I could probably have it copied and send it to you.

[Joe Calhoon]

Darcy,
i appreciate that. Yes I would like to copy the original and also the arbor extension.

[Joe Calhoon]

As far as parts numbers, this is all I have, and unfortunately German.
409533


thats the same I have Joe.
they are checking some of those part numbers for me. I will let you know what I find out.

[Patrick Walsh]

Arbor extension?


Darcy,
i appreciate that. Yes I would like to copy the original and also the arbor extension.

[Darcy Warner]

Arbor extension?

Yeah, the dado arbor

[Patrick Walsh]

Hmm,

I’m kinda broke but keep me on the list please.

Just sent the scales for the handwheel to a machinist with a cnc laser engraver. I didn’t even ask what it was gonnna cost. My guess is I’m gonna have to clean my shorts when I get the bill.


Yeah, the dado arbor

[Darcy Warner]

Hmm,

I’m kinda broke but keep me on the list please.

Just sent the scales for the handwheel to a machinist with a cnc laser engraver. I didn’t even ask what it was gonnna cost. My guess is I’m gonna have to clean my shorts when I get the bill.

The last ones were not too bad, had arbor, nut and new blade flanges made.

[Colin Busby]

Did anyone succeed in sourcing an arbor extension or riving knife for a Martin T75? I just moved a T75 into my shop and would like to add both! I also have a good machinist friend who could make a few copies from a drawing.

[joe milana]

Bump on this thread. Anyone have any updates on their Martin saw projects? Shortly after this thread died out, the previous owner of my T-75 notified me that he found a box of parts for my saw. It included the riving knife bracket, three riving knives, the original wooden saw guard, an extra miter gauge, and extra crosscut stops, along with the miter compensation device, that keeps the crosscut scale accurate when cutting miters. How cool was that!
I ended up sending the riving knife bracket & riving knives off to be copied for others in need, and the parts were either lost or stolen. I'm not sure. Anyway, now I'm on the needy list for these parts as well, and am reaching out in hopes someone else has found a source for these parts.

[Warren Lake]

Is there a place where you can get scale drawings of diff Riving Knives for different machines. One came with the SCM SI16 and its wrong but still a good start. Interesting its made from aluminum. David Kumm has said about making them out of old saw blades. that seems like a good idea. Bizarre to use a saw with one after never having one but its a good thing.

[joe milana]

Is there a place where you can get scale drawings of diff Riving Knives for different machines. One came with the SCM SI16 and its wrong but still a good start. Interesting its made from aluminum. David Kumm has said about making them out of old saw blades. that seems like a good idea. Bizarre to use a saw with one after never having one but its a good thing.


Ya, the riving knife would be the easy part. It's the bracket that would be the challenge.

[Warren Lake]

is the mounting bracket cast. If so can someone make a 3D print of it and make a sand casting mold from that ?

[John Pendery]

I have a T17 with the arbor extension and riving knife assembly intact. I’m happy to take photos when I get back to the shop later on if that would be helpful.

[Joe Calhoon]

My T17 is intact also and I still have access to my old 75. The 75 has a nicer one with a lever to disengage. The 17 uses the arbor wrench. That one would be easy to reproduce. Let me know if you need anything.

[joe milana]

Thanks Joe. There are enough pics in this thread, plus what I remember from having the parts to come up with a replacement. I was jut hoping for an easier solution, like say a source for an original, or a reproduction.