Which Slider Miter Saw to buy? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Alan Heffernan

03-17-2019, 11:40 AM

My son is starting a shop from scratch and looking for the best miter/slider saw to buy. Best = accurate, repeatable, reasonable cross cut capacity, dust collection, and reliable. (Edit: added dust collection)

He has just bought a new house with a full basement and will be building out his woodworking shop. He will set it up on a station and it will not be used as a portable. He will be building furniture, cabinets, and other woodworking projects as a hobby. He is a mechanical engineer, has a discerning eye for tools and has done a lot of woodworking in my shop. I have an older slider that works extremely well and he has used it.

Cost is always important but in this case it is not the constraint. I personally have a lot of Festool equipment but I am not sure I would recommend the Kapex to him.

So what would you recommend to him?

Andrew Hughes

03-17-2019, 12:18 PM

I recommend the Bosch glide. Because that's what I have.

Jim Andrew

03-17-2019, 12:55 PM

I have an old Makita, probably 10 years old, good saw. Was considering something newer with better dc, miter saws are just hard to collect all the dust from.

John C Bush

03-17-2019, 5:16 PM

I have the older(better??) version of the DeWalt. Great saw with great accuracy adjustability. Permanently mounted to my bench required a wider than usual benchtop~~34". Good for workspace but a nuisance when reaching for tools hanging on the wall above the bench. Could be that my chest is a bit lower now and is getting in the way-- wouldn't be as much an issue for a taller WWer. If possible, consider getting DC ducting from below the saw. I made a shroud to fit around the saw with 6" duct from above and lots of dust still accumulates in the recess the saw rests in. A friend bought a new Ridgid on sale at HD and it is a nice rig. Crosscuts close to 15"s and has a shadow line instead of laser but would have the bench depth issue as well. If they had it when I built the shop I would consider The Bosch with the "Axial-glide design.

scott vroom

03-17-2019, 7:04 PM

Bosch Glide.

John TenEyck

03-17-2019, 7:15 PM

Has he considered a RAS? A good old one will do everything thing he needs and more, as well or better, and likely cost less.

John

Dave Sabo

03-18-2019, 8:21 AM

Has he considered a RAS? A good old one will do everything thing he needs and more, as well or better, and likely cost less.

John

Afraid I have to disagree with most of this. A “good” RAS isn’t easy to find and when you do will likely cost $500+. That buys a lot of mitersaw. Second, a RAS is not great or easy for cutting miters. Especially compound ones. Sure - it can be accomplished , but it’s slow and not quickly repeatable with accuracy.

Can’t recommend Kapex either, especially since festool can’t figure out (or just wont admit) the problem they have with far too many of their motors going up in smoke. That’s bad juju for a saw that cost 2-3 times more than all other saws.

Bosch glide is a good option if you don’t need to cart it around. Dewalt’s slider is used by a lot of trim crews I see. The new Makita is a great saw too , though some of them need fussing about to properly align the blade to the rails.

Jeffrey Preece

03-18-2019, 8:32 AM

Just went down this road and after a lot of research clear winner in my eyes was the Dewalt DWS779. $349.00 at Lowe's right now. Same as the $600 dewalt DWS780 but with out the shadow light. There maybe a better saw but not for thast price. Have not used mine a lot yet but very satisfied so far.

Tim M Tuttle

03-18-2019, 1:25 PM

I went with the 12" Bosch Glide. Mainly because of space saving but I do like the saw. The dust collection is non existent though.

Richard Coers

03-18-2019, 2:23 PM

If he's going to do trim in the house, buy a non-slider. A SCMS is not a shop necessity. I prefer a sled on the table saw for cutting molding for furniture, much better quality cut and zero deflection in the machine.

Ben Rivel

03-18-2019, 2:34 PM

I recommend the Bosch glide. Because that's what I have.
Ha! Same here. Had the DeWalt DWS780 before it though and definitely wouldnt go back! The DeWalt required WAY too much room behind it for my shop space.

Matt Day

03-18-2019, 3:57 PM

I wasn’t impressed with the Glide I used. I’d take a good old American cast iron RAS any day.

A good RAS shouldn’t cost $500 either.

I have a DW718 (I think) that is great to use for work with 2x and 4x material. It’s also quick and easy to cut miters for crown or such things. But, if I were making those cuts for furniture I’d use my TS with a miter guage.

John TenEyck

03-18-2019, 4:24 PM

I see lots of old Dewalt/Delta, etc. RAS's for less than $500 around me that make great trim saws. I have a Dewalt GWI. Didn't pay much for it. The Dewalt MBF is an excellent trim saw and people nearly give them away. A SCMS will never cut better than a well tuned RAS; it's just too light in construction. If you don't need portability the heavier machine wins. And if the budget could include a Kapex then you can find some really nice old RAS's.

You are right that a CMS is faster to set up for compound angle cuts, but I rarely use mine for that. When I cut crown molding I lean the molding upside down against the backrest at the spring angle and then I only have to make a simple miter cut, which avoids the piece tending to walk during the cut like wants to happen with a compound angle cut.

I have a CMS, too, but only because I need portability now and then. It rarely gets used in my shop. My two cents.

John

Kelby Van Patten

03-18-2019, 5:09 PM

There are no great miter saws.

The Kapex and Bosch Glide are, I think, ahead of the rest on the issues you mention except for dust collection. For dust collection, the Kapex is the only one that does much at all. It's not great at dust collection, but it's the only one that's even good.

I have the Kapex. I'll be happy with it until someone finally makes something great.

Dave Sabo

03-18-2019, 6:44 PM

“There are no great miter saws.”

Clearly, you’ve never used an OMGA. Guessing you haven’t used Makita’s new 1219 saw either. It has dust collection that is pretty close to the festool. Milwaukee’s big 12” mitersaw has good collection too, but few places sell them , and no one really bought them.

You guys finding old Dewalt and Delta RASs for less than 500 bucks are lucky.

I just don’t see how standing on my tip toes and stretching to operate the lever for mitering on a RAS is faster or easier than operating the miter mech. on any miter-saw. But , to each his own. And I can’t see how one can have a tall enough fence on a RAS to nest crown of any size larger than say, bed molding.

Brian Holcombe

03-18-2019, 6:55 PM

Omga is great, but I think Keith is referring to SCMS, where Omga can be either a CMS or most commonly a miter saw.

I had a Kapex.

Pick up an Omga, I picked one up used from a dealer with dust collection and was still spending less than I did when I bought the Kapex and vacuum. Omga’s DC actually collects the dust. I can chop for hours and have a negligible amount of dust to clean up after.

Simon MacGowen

03-18-2019, 7:10 PM

For dust collection, the Kapex is the only one that does much at all. It's not great at dust collection, but it's the only one that's even good.

I have the Kapex. I'll be happy with it until someone finally makes something great.

The hold down on the Kapex is only clamp that really works in any miter saws. All others are so crumbersome that they are meaningless.

I get very good dust extraction with the 36mm hose.

The bevel control on the Kapex is the best hands down.

Simon

Alan Heffernan

03-18-2019, 8:32 PM

Thanks for all the good insights and comments. Keep them coming!

For some clarity, l am looking for a slider miter saw and have no interest in a radial arm saw.

Brian Holcombe

03-18-2019, 8:34 PM

I disagree. It’s incredibly difficult to adjust for mitering accuracy due to the slot/screw arrangement for adjusting the ring position and the head’s adjustment ring is super difficult to adjust for square. Once it’s adjusted a heavy cut will pull it out of adjustment.

Clamp was ok, the soft surface eventually migrates off of the face.

Underpowered motor that can’t make through cuts for anything heavier than 4/4 in one pass.

Simon MacGowen

03-18-2019, 10:15 PM

I disagree about the bevel control. It’s incredibly difficult to adjust for accuracy due to the slot/screw arrangement and the head is super difficult to adjust. Once it’s adjusted a heavy cut will pull it out of adjustment.

Clamp was ok, the soft surface eventually migrates off of the face.

Underpowered motor that can’t make through cuts for anything heavier than 4/4 in one pass.

I'm surprised by your experience with the bevel control, since as it is the smoothest thing in my saw in terms of setting the bevel angle, especially so compared to the miter setting which often requires two hands for fine angles. Anyone who has tried to set bevels with the Bosch glide and the Kapex will see the difference between day and night.

The motor issue has been hotly discussed in the festool forum, but I have never recalled any similar take on the bevel control all these years. In fact, Peter Parff (the one who came up with the parff dogs) is on the record to say that he uses the bevel to cut miters (while most choose to use the miter settings). I can dial in precisely and easily through the bevel adjustment knob with one hand the bevel angle (left or right) for compound angle cuts. Both the factory precision and accuracy on the bevels on my saw have been beyond my expectation.

The clamp requires a trick to be used which unfortunately is not given in the manual (like many other things). Don't just push down the bar and lock the lever -- it will not always give a good grip. I will look for the video that shows how to get a good grip every time (Festool sedge has shown one trick, but his, in my opinion, is not as good as another one whose name has escaped me).

Edit - Gary K. is the woodworker I had in mind! https://youtu.be/8bvKozRMT1M?t=286
see how smooth the bevel control is!

I will come back when I find the segment on the hold-down clamp. Edit - I couldn't find Gary K.'s hold-down video, but here's the one that Sedge produced: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfMTOx5nwPz/ You don't often see Kpaex users do that, because it is not in the manual. Gary's method is better as I said. Hands-down, the Kapex's quick release hold-down clamp is the best ever in any miter saw...but it is pricey if you need an extra one!

Anyone who wants to know more about the Kapex should watch Gary's videos Parts 1 & 2. It covers many other things like laser, trench cuts, etc. He also has videos on how to set your miter saws to cut dead square...I mean deadly dead square (and that's how my Kapex performs).

Simon

Mark e Kessler

03-18-2019, 10:20 PM

Have had many miter saws over the years, the best I had for close to furniture quality cuts was the original 8" Hitachi slide, more recently had the 12" Bosch glide that was ok - sold it and bought the Makita 1012 which required a little tuning - the cut was not coplaner with the rails, after about 1/2 hour of tweaking got it damn near perfect. But in all reality if you are looking for furniture quality cuts you want a sled on a TS or better yet a slider.

As far as dust collection goes I just have an open 5" flex off of my cyclone positioned near the slide behind the fence and catches enough for me, I am mostly concerned with eliminating airborne dust which this does.

Also btw, I tried like 5-6 different saw blades from $30 to $130 and to my shock and surprise the 80 tooth Makita blade won...$33

Mark

Corey Pelton

03-18-2019, 10:46 PM

Love my Kapex 120. Tried all the big players in the market and the Kapex won.
Accuracy and dust collection was high on my must haves. The laser is fantastic too.

Brian Holcombe

03-18-2019, 11:53 PM

I'm surprised by your experience with the bevel control, since as it is the smoothest thing in my saw in terms of setting the bevel angle, especially so compared to the miter setting which often requires two hands for fine angles. Anyone who has tried to set bevels with the Bosch glide and the Kapex will see the difference between day and night.

The motor issue has been hotly discussed in the festool forum, but I have never recalled any similar take on the bevel control all these years. In fact, Peter Parff (the one who came up with the parff dogs) is on the record to say that he uses the bevel to cut miters (while most choose to use the miter settings). I can dial in precisely and easily through the bevel adjustment knob with one hand the bevel angle (left or right) for compound angle cuts. Both the factory precision and accuracy on the bevels on my saw have been beyond my expectation.

The clamp requires a trick to be used which unfortunately is not given in the manual (like many other things). Don't just push down the bar and lock the lever -- it will not always give a good grip. I will look for the video that shows how to get a good grip every time (Festool sedge has shown one trick, but his, in my opinion, is not as good as another one whose name has escaped me).

Edit - Gary K. is the woodworker I had in mind! https://youtu.be/8bvKozRMT1M?t=286
see how smooth the bevel control is!

I will come back when I find the segment on the hold-down clamp. Edit - I couldn't find Gary K.'s hold-down video, but here's the one that Sedge produced: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfMTOx5nwPz/ You don't often see Kpaex users do that, because it is not in the manual. Gary's method is better as I said. Hands-down, the Kapex's quick release hold-down clamp is the best ever in any miter saw...but it is pricey if you need an extra one!

Anyone who wants to know more about the Kapex should watch Gary's videos Parts 1 & 2. It covers many other things like laser, trench cuts, etc. He also has videos on how to set your miter saws to cut dead square...I mean deadly dead square (and that's how my Kapex performs).

Simon

Sorry, I'm mixing up terms. Festool is unique in that it has a process control type name for things like the 'bevel control', what came to mind for me was the miter gauge which never stayed in place and the same with the stainless ring around the back of the saw, it never stayed in place. The actual cruising through of adjustments was fine/smooth process but that isn't accuracy to me.

Accuracy in my mind is that when it says '45 degrees' is it? How about 90? Adjusting the saw square was incredibly difficult and I would always have to plan for miter cuts to be off.

I spent 1.5 years with the Kapex in the shop, chopping cutting miters with it daily. I have a lot of hours on a Kapex.

By contrast the Omga saws are fairly easy to adjust to be square and when they're turreted to 45 for a miter the result is accurate.

I cut this with an OMGA, these are off the saw with no adjustments made by hand afterward:

(the legs are 1/4" thick by 1" long and 1/4" deep), I cut 12 of these they came out identically.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/57255985764__0CAD89EA-4576-48AB-A1B4-232433A79A18.jpg

I cut 24 corners like this, all this tight.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2521.jpg

Kapex for me would deflect just slightly in every cut and so the cuts would have a very faint convexity to their faces. By comparison here is Omga

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2447.jpg

Here is the cut surface on 3x3 white ash:

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2446.jpg

Simon MacGowen

03-19-2019, 12:18 AM

Sorry, I'm mixing up terms. Festool is unique in that it has a process control type name for things like the 'bevel control', what came to mind for me was the miter gauge which never stayed in place and the same with the stainless ring around the back of the saw, it never stayed in place. The actual cruising through of adjustments was fine/smooth process but that isn't accuracy to me.

Accuracy in my mind is that when it says '45 degrees' is it? How about 90? Adjusting the saw square was incredibly difficult and I would always have to plan for miter cuts to be off.

I spent 1.5 years with the Kapex in the shop, chopping cutting miters with it daily. I have a lot of hours on a Kapex.

Whether it is a miter saw or a table saw, it is up to the new owner to verifyéfinetune the machine's settings when it arrives. Factory settings are subject to tolerance too, including the Kapex.

Gary Katz has three excellent videos on how to finetune the Kapex for square cuts and miter cuts which I followed after getting my new Kapex (Tips: finetune the miter first before squareness, and use a bungee cord as Gary shows). again, the manual is no match to his videos in finetuning those critical parameters. My Kapex has been cutting perfect squares, miters and bevels.

But in addition to angles, also check the table and fence for flatness and straightness which would throw off the accuracy too. Those are the areas where user could not fix, and should warrant a saw replacement if they are out.

Simon

Brian Holcombe

03-19-2019, 7:35 AM

Simon MacGowen

03-19-2019, 10:21 AM

Simon, post some photos. I tweaked the most I could out of the Kapex and of you’re getting perfect miters out of it, I’d certainly like to see them.

You’re preaching to the choir with the rest of this stuff, I went over that machine with a fine tooth comb many, many times.

I could sense a degree of dissatisfaction or frustration from you with the Kapex, which of course can be due to many factors. Kapex is best known for its precision and accuracy (assuming proper calibration is checked or done by the users (again, Gary Katz has shown how to do that)) among other things (motor issue one of them!). There are many Kapex videos out there one can search about how good it cuts miters or angled pieces. Peter Parffit, a hobbyist, has done many videos and here is one I found:

https://youtu.be/FemIf5O0mXQ?t=208

Even though I have no images to share, please be assured that my Kapex performs as well as (if not better than) his in all aspects.

If you aren't getting good results, I recommend that you review Gary's videos AFTER checking that your saw's table and fences are flat, straight and square to each other (and of course that the blade cuts true). I have not come across any miter saw calibration method better than Gary's (Kapex was used in his calibration videos).

Simon

Simon MacGowen

03-19-2019, 10:39 AM

Thanks for all the good insights and comments. Keep them coming!

For some clarity, l am looking for a slider miter saw and have no interest in a radial arm saw.

Please see the posts I have exchanged with Brian on this thread.

If someone asked me if they should get a Kapex (assuming money isn't an issue), this is what I'd say:

If you believe the motor problem is isolated and limited to within the normal failure rate of a machine, then get the Kapex which is covered by a three year warranty.

Otherwise, get something else.

I am not a Festool salesman, so I don't need to promote it.

I paid hard earned cash for my Kapex, and have been 101% happy with its quality of cuts, dust extraction (36mm hose), hold down, smoothness of operation (I don't like the glide as you need to push harder to counter the spring), lasers, variable speed control, etc. The only part I am not familiar with is the crown molding thing as I don't do home renovation.

Motor/underpower issue? I have not experienced it...touching wood (and my saw is as old as, probably older than, Peter Parffit's).

By the way, I wouldn't recommend it for job site use, because one does not need a Kapex's supreme quality to do job site work! Use a saw that costs $200 - $300 for carpentry work.

Simon

Ryan Liegel

03-19-2019, 10:48 AM

I have the Dewalt DWS780 and it's generally great; I really like the shadow light on it and the cuts have been accurate so far. My biggest complaints are that it does need a ton of space front to back and dust collection is pretty lousy. If I could do it again, I'd probably get a Bosch glide instead due to the shorter depth required.

pam eanes

03-19-2019, 8:35 PM

I have a 10” Hitachi that I’ve used for about 8 years. The holdown clamp is not great but it’s been a good saw. Cuts are smooth and accurate

Dave Sabo

03-19-2019, 8:57 PM

Please see the posts I have exchanged with Brian on this thread.

If someone asked me if they should get a Kapex (assuming money isn't an issue), this is what I'd say:

If you believe the motor problem is isolated and limited to within the normal failure rate of a machine, then get the Kapex which is covered by a three year warranty.

Otherwise, get something else.

I am not a Festool salesman, so I don't need to promote it.

I paid hard earned cash for my Kapex, and have been 101% happy with its quality of cuts, dust extraction (36mm hose), hold down, smoothness of operation (I don't like the glide as you need to push harder to counter the spring), lasers, variable speed control, etc. The only part I am not familiar with is the crown molding thing as I don't do home renovation.

Motor/underpower issue? I have not experienced it...touching wood (and my saw is as old as, probably older than, Peter Parffit's).

By the way, I wouldn't recommend it for job site use, because one does not need a Kapex's supreme quality to do job site work! Use a saw that costs $200 - $300 for carpentry work.

Simon

This is really makes it sound like you are a salesman. Exactly like one.

Tell us us why one doesn’t NEED a saw of supreme quality for site work ? By an equally applied standard, one would not need a supreme quality saw in a shop setting either. Especially a “home shop”. We do work in homes costing tens of millions. A $200 saw would look out of place in those. But........................

A skilled craftsman can can do trim work with just about any saw that has a good and sharp blade. Even a 20 year old Craftsman that cost 75 bucks. A noob isn’t likely to make kerf cuts needed for radiused baseboard with any saw, even a Kapex.

Though I’m not a fan of the saw personally, its stand system is arguably one of the best and lightest mobile solutions on the market. Making it a very strong contender for someone doing sitework, despite its lofty price tag.

Simon MacGowen

03-19-2019, 9:08 PM

This is really makes it sound like you are a salesman. Exactly like one.
.

If I had sounded like a Festool salesman, I would have recommended the Kapex for carpentry and job site work.

How did I know one does not need a Kapex to do carpentry? Because I have seen good work done in homes (including mine) by trade people using anything but the Kapex. Good work done using Dewalt, Makita, Ridigd, etc. etc.

By the way, I did not say you can't use a Kapex for job site work...in fact, many trade people in the EU do.

Simon

Chris Parks

03-19-2019, 9:14 PM

Motor/underpower issue? I have not experienced it...touching wood (and my saw is as old as, probably older than, Peter Parffit's). Simon

Simon, unfortunately you can't use that comparison as your saw is 110V and his is 240V and the failures are largely confined to the 110V machines from all reports.

Brian Holcombe

03-19-2019, 9:24 PM

I could sense a degree of dissatisfaction or frustration from you with the Kapex, which of course can be due to many factors. Kapex is best known for its precision and accuracy (assuming proper calibration is checked or done by the users (again, Gary Katz has shown how to do that)) among other things (motor issue one of them!). There are many Kapex videos out there one can search about how good it cuts miters or angled pieces. Peter Parffit, a hobbyist, has done many videos and here is one I found:

https://youtu.be/FemIf5O0mXQ?t=208

Even though I have no images to share, please be assured that my Kapex performs as well as (if not better than) his in all aspects.

If you aren't getting good results, I recommend that you review Gary's videos AFTER checking that your saw's table and fences are flat, straight and square to each other (and of course that the blade cuts true). I have not come across any miter saw calibration method better than Gary's (Kapex was used in his calibration videos).

Simon

Simon,

Posting 'Be assured' doesn't show me what I want to see. This isn't for ego but for relative comparison. Every cut I made with a Kapex gapped anywhere from a negligible amount (for a small cut) to a few thousandths on wider cut (on both sides of the cut), that's enough to make a cut that doesn't look tight when it's glued and so it needed to be touched up with a shooting board. You can't tune that sort of deflection out of a saw. I could adjust it 90 degrees perfectly and the cut would still not meet all the way around on a piece of hardwood.

I show photos because I want to be able to compare notes, I'm not trying to reduce your enjoyment of the saw but to understand that when you say 'square' what are we actually talking about? That's something a picture shows, not words, at least not in this context.

Rework is expensive, it adds a process and that added time is wasteful. If something can come off the saw perfect than adding additional steps adds possible error and time related cost with no benefit to the end product (in fact probably worse, since a set dimension cannot be worked to).

Here's example in how I use the omga (for frames in this case) I'm taking sized stock to the saw, chopping end then chop to length. Use that to reference for joinery, then use the joinery to reference for squareness. I'm then gluing up the frames and I check one in the batch for squareness, it measures square to 1/64" (4' x 3' frame).

If I use a saw that is not accurate: then I must chop to length, followed by shooting to length, followed by comparison similar sizes. Then joinery, then double-checking the joinery for squareness then finally assembly and checking each frame.

If I'm not confident on a machine's abilities that means I have to stop what I'm doing and check things during the work, that's annoying is that any adjustment needing to be made means that a good number of things could be off and need to be reworked. At that point I either rework the entire set or split them off into to sizes. Best just to have something that works reliably.

Simon MacGowen

03-19-2019, 9:24 PM

Simon, unfortunately you can't use that comparison as your saw is 110V and his is 240V and the failures are largely confined to the 110V machines from all reports.

May be I've missed your point Chris. Mine is indeed 110V, but if it is older than Peter's (240V), shouldn't it be a good thing that I have had no power or motor issue?

Over the festool forum, people speculated almost everything about the motor issue, but unfortunately, we still really know nothing. I wish we did, and then concluded one way or the other. There are people sitting on the fence, delaying to buy any Kapex as well as people saying their next miter saw would still be a Kapex even if theirs died. Like I say, don't buy the Kapex if one is worried about it. No reason to spend that much money on something that keeps you up at night.

Simon

Simon MacGowen

03-19-2019, 9:40 PM

I show photos because I want to be able to compare notes, I'm not trying to reduce your enjoyment of the saw but to understand that when you say 'square' what are we actually talking about? That's something a picture shows, not words, at least not in this context.

If I use a saw that is not accurate: then I must chop to length, followed by shooting to length, followed by comparison similar sizes. Then joinery, then double-checking the joinery for squareness then finally assembly and checking each frame.

In Peter's video I linked in my last post, he made a square cut near the beginning, and checked it with his engineer's square. That's the kind of square cut I get from my Kapex. We also see at the beginning seconds of his desk video tight miters (top and at the skirt); that is also the kind of miter I get from my saw. According to Peter, he usually cuts miters using the bevel feature.

Peter did not say if he calibrated his Kapex when received new (probably not otherwise he would have done a video of it), I did -- both the miter and square cuts. Factory settings among different Kapexes can be spot on or could be off or even outside the tolerances. I knew my bevels from the factory were fantastic, and so I didn't do anything about it.

I am happy with my Kapex. Yours may perform not as well as mine, but you are not alone, because in the festool forum, we have seen similar stories shared for some identical tools or models. In fact, this kind of machine performance variations happens to almost all machines including tablesaws, bandsaws, automobiles, etc.

Simon

Chris Parks

03-19-2019, 10:08 PM

May be I've missed your point Chris. Mine is indeed 110V, but if it is older than Peter's (240V), shouldn't it be a good thing that I have had no power or motor issue?

Over the festool forum, people speculated almost everything about the motor issue, but unfortunately, we still really know nothing. I wish we did, and then concluded one way or the other. There are people sitting on the fence, delaying to buy any Kapex as well as people saying their next miter saw would still be a Kapex even if theirs died. Like I say, don't buy the Kapex if one is worried about it. No reason to spend that much money on something that keeps you up at night.

Simon

i doubt you have missed the point, simply put 240V Kapex motors have a very low failure rate.

Roger Feeley

03-20-2019, 10:09 AM

To all those Bosch Glide owners out there. I bought one of the first Glides and found that the base sagged in the middle by nearly .030". After trying several saws and even having two Bosch techs in my house, I wound up returning them for refund. In my view, it wasn't the saw but the shipping container. I think the boxes got dropped and the heavy head bent the base.

I wonder if you Glide owners could put a good straightedge across the base of your saw and see if there is a gap in the middle. I would still kind of like a Glide someday.

Simon MacGowen

03-20-2019, 10:19 AM

T

put a good straightedge across the base of your saw and see if there is a gap in the middle.

Regardless of what miter saw is bought, that is the first thing a new owner should do. Do the same on the fence. Then check the bed and fence are square to each other from left to right. If they are out, you won't get any consistent or quality cuts. Return or exchange it if they can not be fixed.

Make sure you use a reliable straightedge and square.

Simon

Andrew Hughes

03-20-2019, 11:21 AM

Here's mine its pretty flat on the round part.

Andrew Hughes

03-20-2019, 11:39 AM

Here's a better pic with a view of my dust collector shroud made from lead.

mark mcfarlane

03-20-2019, 12:19 PM

I've had a Kapex for 18 months. It is an order of magnitude better than the 40 year old Craftsman RAS that it replaced. Still, it struggles a little in 4/4 maple and really struggles in 6/4 maple or white oak on boards over a few inches wide. I frequently use the Kapex to rough cut 10-12' hardwood boards when they first enter the shop.

I won't comment on accuracy or repeatability, I need to go through a second setup using some of the excellent resources that Simon shared. I spent the first 18 months in my newly equipped retirement shop making furniture. Now I'm going back through each machine to see if I can improve their accuracy. Spending a few days fine tuning my sliding table saw has paid off, hopefully it will also on the Kapex. One of the first things I plan to do is pull the Kapex slightly (1-2mm) forward of my long, home made workstation fence, so the cuts register only on the Kapex fence.

Alan (OP), FWIW, if I was buying today, with what I know about the Kapex, I'd probably get a Bosch Glide. If I had purchased the Glide, I'd probably have a different set of complaints :).

I've never heard anyone complain about their OMGA saw, but the price differential from a Glide is significant and the cross cut capacity is much smaller (no slide). I'm sure it is great for the final cut of a rail or style, but not useable for rough cutting 8 or 10" wide rough stock.

Simon MacGowen

03-20-2019, 1:29 PM

One of the first things I plan to do is pull the Kapex slightly (1-2mm) forward of my long, home made workstation fence, so the cuts register only on the Kapex fence.

My station does not have a fence on either side of the Kapex. Everything is registered against the fence of the saw only (which is calibrated with the blade). Even dressed long stock is seldom straight end to end (unless you work on it immediately after dressing). Some people also put a tape on their fences, but I only go by the tape measure that I use for doing all other dimensions. Except for rough cuts, the tape on my tablesaw is rarely used either.

Simon

Larry Edgerton

03-20-2019, 9:32 PM

Paul F Mills

03-20-2019, 10:15 PM

I am looking for a new miter saw too. The sliding Kobalt I bought a few years ago absolutely sucks, and all I did then was cut some 2x4s for house projects. Now that I am trying to do nice woodworking projects it is almost useless. I have it 90 vertical now but the horizontal cut always flexes. And dust collection sucks.

A Dewalt might be in my future. Or the Kapex so my wife does notice the change in color so much.

Simon MacGowen

03-20-2019, 10:21 PM

Not true. The new Makita is as good as the Festool in collection and a better saw in my opinion for less than half the cost.

Between a Makita LS1019L (if that's the one you have) and a Bosch Glide, I'd definitely go with the Makita.

Simon

Dave Sabo

03-20-2019, 10:53 PM

If I had sounded like a Festool salesman, I would have recommended the Kapex for carpentry and job site work.

How did I know one does not need a Kapex to do carpentry? Because I have seen good work done in homes (including mine) by trade people using anything but the Kapex. Good work done using Dewalt, Makita, Ridigd, etc. etc.

By the way, I did not say you can't use a Kapex for job site work...in fact, many trade people in the EU do.

Simon

Yep, more sales speak.

How come you “need” a Kapex for your shop? Guess you haven’t seen good work done there with a Dewalt,Ridgid,Makita, huh ?

You’re right, you didn’t say one can’t use a Kapex for sight work. No one said you did. But you’re talking outa both sides of your mouth when you opine that a site carpenter doesn’t need a Kapex but a shop guy can benefit from one.

Like a salesman.

Anyone can use whatever tool they want wherever. That’s kinda obvious. What I am saying is : for those considering rolling the dice on a Kapex; it’s just as well suited for sitework as it is for stationary shop work.

- and -

One can do fine work either place without a Kapex. I’ve done it both places with and without a Kapex.

Simon MacGowen

03-20-2019, 11:47 PM

Yep, more sales speak. Like a salesman.

Wow. Sounds like you're some guy who can't stand anyone loving their Kapexes. I've come across a good share of people like that on the sawstop, but the Kapex? Why? Because it's green?

Simon

Reinis Kanders

03-20-2019, 11:52 PM

Makita saws are notorious for rails not being co-planar with the blade. I specifically looked at three cordless SCMS saws that are basically the same mechanical design as corded. I think a lot of people just do not check too much. I have resigned to having to shoot/plane critical cuts. Kapex is definitely overpriced for what it delivers for example cordless Makita seems to be more powerful.

Simon MacGowen

03-20-2019, 11:57 PM

Makita saws are notorious for rails not being co-planar with the blade. I have resigned to having to shoot/plane critical cuts.

The co-planer issue was reported in 2017, and Makita had acknowledged about that consumer/manufacturing concern. Has it not been fixed by now?

By the way, not wanting to do shoot/plane anymore was the main reason why I landed on a Kapex (having the best possible dust collection was the other reason).

Simon

Thomas McCurnin

03-21-2019, 12:56 AM

Another vote for DeWalt DWS779 which I use on its carrier sled. That said, I have a 15 year old 10" Hitachi which is dead on accurate and attached to a bench. I have a cast iron 240v 50 year old DeWalt Radial Arm Saw which does a lot, but does need re-calibrating from time to time, which I use for dado work and rough cuts.

Reinis Kanders

03-21-2019, 12:04 PM

I personally saw the problem in 2017 and 2018, seems to be some sort of design issue that QA does not always catch. I also saw a mention of it recently here on sawmillcreek.

The co-planer issue was reported in 2017, and Makita had acknowledged about that consumer/manufacturing concern. Has it not been fixed by now?

By the way, not wanting to do shoot/plane anymore was the main reason why I landed on a Kapex (having the best possible dust collection was the other reason).

Simon

Mike Kreinhop

03-21-2019, 2:43 PM

I have the Dewalt DWS780, but only because no one had the Bosch GCM12SD in stock. Now that I have it, and have since been able to use the Bosch, I am happy with my Dewalt. I prefer the shadow line for the saw kerf than the laser on the Bosch.

Today, I dipped my toes into the Festool pool and bought a DF 700. While I was in the Festool showroom, I asked the sales rep about the Kapex problems. He knew about the motor problems outside Europe, but has never seen a returned saw in any of his Germany stores.

Brian Holcombe

03-21-2019, 3:26 PM

I will give Festool credit where due, the did fix the motor issue on mine. It started to lose power and began to produce an electrical smell. They sent me a new box, I packaged it into the box and then sent it to them. They returned it back very quickly.

It was under warranty, so no charge, but I decided to sell it after that.

scott vroom

03-21-2019, 3:26 PM

Down boy...

Yep, more sales speak.

How come you “need” a Kapex for your shop? Guess you haven’t seen good work done there with a Dewalt,Ridgid,Makita, huh ?

You’re right, you didn’t say one can’t use a Kapex for sight work. No one said you did. But you’re talking outa both sides of your mouth when you opine that a site carpenter doesn’t need a Kapex but a shop guy can benefit from one.

Like a salesman.

Anyone can use whatever tool they want wherever. That’s kinda obvious. What I am saying is : for those considering rolling the dice on a Kapex; it’s just as well suited for sitework as it is for stationary shop work.

- and -

One can do fine work either place without a Kapex. I’ve done it both places with and without a Kapex.

Scott Buehler

03-22-2019, 3:11 PM

I have the Bosch glide and it is great. I would have went with the DeWalt, because that is what I've used for years with great success, but I did not want it sticking out so far in my new shop, therefore I went with the Bosch. Been very happy with it.

Gary Tanner

03-22-2019, 6:02 PM

I must be the only person on this forum that loves his 12" Milwaukee. Interesting.
Gary

Dan Baginski

03-22-2019, 6:33 PM

I have a dewalt non slider. Works really well for me. I built a hood around the back of it with some plywood and a 4” dust hose hookup. Not perfect but good enough for the girls I go with. I only get a faint amount of dust out the front now.

Jacob Mac

03-23-2019, 12:13 PM

Not true. The new Makita is as good as the Festool in collection and a better saw in my opinion for less than half the cost.

Is the the Makita LS1219L you're referring to?

Ken Fitzgerald

03-23-2019, 1:17 PM

Alan,

Do yourself a favor. Go to some business that carries the saws you are considering and take a few minutes to play with them. Then make your decision. I thought sure I wanted a Bosch Glide until I tried one in a local store. The one I tried had too much lateral play for me to feel comfortable with it's repeatability. Now I am sure that may raise some arguments. That was my experience. I ended up buying a Dewalt slider with the LED system on it. Though it requires that it be set farther out from the wall taking up more room, I know from over 2 years of experience that I can change angles and return to a previous setting and it will be on, accurately repeatable.

Don't take my or others words. Go try them out for yourself then make your decision.

Donn Ward

03-23-2019, 8:48 PM

I always enjoy these types of threads "which ____ to buy"? We all have opinions based on our own experiences or the experiences of others, which are often complicated by variables such as price, space, etc. Often the the brands mentioned in these threads will have their champions as well as a few dissatisfied users. Regarding the tool in question in this thread, I have the DeWalt 780 with shadow light, it has proven to be accurate and reliable (10 plus years). If it broke tomorrow (knock on wood), I would replace it with another DeWalt....my reasoning for replacing it with a like model says a lot about the positive experiences I have had with the saw, but a major consideration is also it works in the space I created for it and it would be a hassle to reconfigure things. Poor reasoning? Perhaps; but it is a consideration.

Alan Heffernan

03-24-2019, 11:30 AM

Thanks to all for the feedback.

My son has monitored this thread along with a similar thread elsewhere. After a review with me, he bought the Dewalt 779 and will add the shadow light.

It appears that Dewalt has discontinued the 779 since it is not on their website any longer. The pricing is very attractive now on the 779 and the shadow light is available via parts houses at a very reasonable cost.

BTW, I have an older Milwaukee that has been great but that is irrelevant to this discussion. So thanks again for the input on current offerings.

Patrick Walsh

03-25-2019, 10:14 PM

10” Bosch glide or just the dewalt 10”

But what I really want to know is of that is a Felix the cat dose.

When I was a kid Felix the cat was some of the best lsd you could get. Ah the memories were just all old now..

Alan Heffernan

03-25-2019, 10:39 PM

Rob Luter

03-27-2019, 12:54 PM

Another vote for Bosch. I bought the top of the line dual bevel slider (precursor to the glide) when I did a house remodel in 2006. After that project I didn't use it much, so I sold it to my employer in 2011. New location? A window factory where it's still used daily to cut wood, vinyl extrusion, and aluminum extrusion. They've worked it hard and it just keeps going. They've burned up a couple Dewalts in the same time period.

I'm sold on Bosch. I have their cordless drill/driver, palm router, and plunge router. They all seem to be bullet proof, although it is possible to cut the router cord in half with a 3/8" up spiral bit :o

A quick repair with a soldering iron and some head shrink and it's back in the game.

scott vroom

03-27-2019, 8:31 PM

Rich Aldrich

03-27-2019, 9:56 PM

I also just bought a DWS779 and the back light kit. Just waiting for them to arrive. Amazon had the saw for $314 through MaxTool, but the price is back up to $349 again. It wont ship until next week because the sold their stock and have 200 more on the way from a warehouse, so I will probably get it around Friday, April 5.

greg bulman

03-29-2019, 2:02 PM

Anyone tried the makita 8 1/2 inch saw? Been thinking about one for job site because of lighter weight.

Andrew Joiner

03-29-2019, 2:34 PM

A quick repair with a soldering iron and some head shrink and it's back in the game.
I've had some scary accidents with routers but none needed a psychiatrist;)

Ed Henderson

03-29-2019, 6:03 PM

I am spoiled rotten. I have a 20 yr old Makita 10 inch slider...love it except it's on a very heavy so called portable stand. I also have a 8 1/2 inch Elu slider...love it, it's my bench slider. I have a 12 inch Dewalt 780 and it is my best saw..love it..it's on the Dewalt collapsible stand.
Reason for all this excessive saw stuff is that I quit smoking 33 yrs ago and in an effort to get my wife to also quit I told her if she smokes I get to spend my smoke money on my toys. She still smokes but a lot less. I retired 12 yrs ago and occasionally discover a new item still in the pack hidden in my shop.
The only thing about the Dewalt 780 that I'm disappointed in is the stand..I believe I should have got the Bosch collapsible stand.
I bought the 780 from H.D. after I discovered it on sale elsewhere so price matched and got another 10% to make it a good deal.
Today I bought another tool. Smoke money buys nice stuff.