Justin Ludwig
03-16-2019, 8:21 AM
This thread is spurned from many posts I've read and an experience I had yesterday.
I hope this thread is one that anyone can turn to for a little information on thinning (or not) their material. Everything I provide below is based up MY EXPERIENCE and trials and tribulations! Take it for what it's worth. Please add to the discussion and if you read something that makes you say, "OMG Lud, why did/do you do that?" LET ME KNOW!!! I only want to get better.
Full disclosure: I'm not a pro, but I can lay down some nice finish and I've only been finishing for about 4-5 years. And I live in an area of very high humidity fluctuations.
------------------------------------
Read your product's PDS and SDS - seriously! There is good information in there. I have a folder on my PC with a PDS of every product I use - I have not come across a manufacture that isn't helpful if you ask them questions. I've found ML Campbell to be the most responsive.
Thinning or Reducing, (would someone that uses WB exclusive please chime in on their experiences):
High Build NC Lacquers (20-25% solids by volume) - unless you're matching an existing finish - shy away from NC lacquer as there are SO MANY better products. This product is HOT and will dry fast, spray too thick of a coat and it skim over on top and them you may get solvent pop; solvents trying to dissipate and bubbling up through the skimmed over top. If you thin the material with lacquer thinner, it becomes HOTTER, dries faster, and reduces the solids in your finish. NC lacquers are extremely sensitive to humidity and blushing. Adding thinner does not help. To prevent blushing you have to add a retarder to slow the drying process. Even if you've added the 3-5% retarder recommended by manufacturer - don't ever spray NC lacquers when humidity is 80% or higher - you will pull your hair out.
PreCat Lacquers (15-20% solids by volume) - Long pot life (9-12month). Very easy to use in all climates. Fairly easy to repair. This used to be my favorite go-to clear top coat. I would spray it with a Graco 9.5 Turbine HVLP siphon cup. Not thinned, I had to use the #6 tip, thinned 20%, I used a #4 tip. I prefer to thin 20% and use the #4 tip and here's why:
I spray a component (door, faceframe, whatever) and then start prepping the next component to be sprayed.
During the time that it takes me to prep the next piece, my sprayed coat has "flashed."
I spray a second "wet coat" and then put the piece on a drying rack.
I could 2 coats of finish at 4mil with just handle the piece once. This saves time and gives a great build - this method is used for sealer and topcoat. I learned it from a professional in Canada - JECO Finishing
--
If you don't thin
You'll spray a little bit slower in movement. The product will not "lay down" as easily.
The product is much more likely to start "gumming up" at the nozzle during extending spraying applications.
Spraying red oak or ash - you have a much greater chance of solvent pop, especially if it is warm outside (85F+)
My recommendation
Thin your precat 15% thinner and 5% reducer. Keep your spray and drying area CLEAN. I have 4 box fans with filters attached running 24/7 to keep the dust outta my shop.
If you spray with an airless - you won't need to thin unless you are spraying a LOT, then you may notice your tips starting to gum up. I thin my PreCat 5% thinner and 5% retarder when spraying with an airless. I get really good results.
Conversion Varnish (post catalyzed - ML Campbell's ClawlockII Primer and Stealth pigmented) - White kitchens are the happening thing in my area. Painting is a bear, a big mean nasty bear. There are NO shortcuts to getting a good finish. All you're money is made is prep prep prep prep, PREP! Especially white, it will expose every Achilles's Heel you may have.
ClawlockII primer (https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=MLC&doctype=PDS&prodno=035777061954&lang=2) is molasses. It is 43-47% solids by volume. from the PDS "When used with conventional air spray, HVLP, AAA, or airless, Clawlock II should be reduced 20% with standard laqcuer thinner. The amount of reduction necessary is dependent on the type of equipment being used."
This stuff is amazing and has excellent building and bridging capabilities.
Using my HVLP gun - I have to thin the material 30% and spray with a 2.2 tip. Thinning it any less and my spray nozzle will start to gum up in short time. I thin with 50% lacquer thinner and 50% Flow Enhancer #1 (https://www.mlcampbell.com/product/flow-enhancer-slow-reducer-1/).
Using my airless - I thin the material 20% (10 thinner, 10 enhancer) and spray with a 313 FF tip (I haven't purchased a 313 FFLP tip yet). If you don't thin this material, it will gum up in minutes at the tip and jack with your pattern!
Stealth pigmented top coat (https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=MLC&doctype=PDS&prodno=035777470640&lang=2) is almost molasses. 35% solids by volume. PDS says straight up - Thin 25% with most equipment. Yesterday I sprayed faceframes and end panels with my airless using a 4-10 FFLP tip and I thinned the material only 10% hoping to get a faster build. WRONG! Holy-gum-up-the-tip-city! That was very frustrating! I had to stop every 5 minutes to remove build up off the tip!
HVLP - same method as Clawlock II.
I'll do another post later on BIN, ADVANCE, Benwood WB poly, ML Campbell Klear CV, and a separate post on Spray No Wipe stains. For now I gotta go.
Contribute! I wanna know what you guys do so I can get better and stop learning in a "Baptism by Fire" that I'm used to.
I hope this thread is one that anyone can turn to for a little information on thinning (or not) their material. Everything I provide below is based up MY EXPERIENCE and trials and tribulations! Take it for what it's worth. Please add to the discussion and if you read something that makes you say, "OMG Lud, why did/do you do that?" LET ME KNOW!!! I only want to get better.
Full disclosure: I'm not a pro, but I can lay down some nice finish and I've only been finishing for about 4-5 years. And I live in an area of very high humidity fluctuations.
------------------------------------
Read your product's PDS and SDS - seriously! There is good information in there. I have a folder on my PC with a PDS of every product I use - I have not come across a manufacture that isn't helpful if you ask them questions. I've found ML Campbell to be the most responsive.
Thinning or Reducing, (would someone that uses WB exclusive please chime in on their experiences):
High Build NC Lacquers (20-25% solids by volume) - unless you're matching an existing finish - shy away from NC lacquer as there are SO MANY better products. This product is HOT and will dry fast, spray too thick of a coat and it skim over on top and them you may get solvent pop; solvents trying to dissipate and bubbling up through the skimmed over top. If you thin the material with lacquer thinner, it becomes HOTTER, dries faster, and reduces the solids in your finish. NC lacquers are extremely sensitive to humidity and blushing. Adding thinner does not help. To prevent blushing you have to add a retarder to slow the drying process. Even if you've added the 3-5% retarder recommended by manufacturer - don't ever spray NC lacquers when humidity is 80% or higher - you will pull your hair out.
PreCat Lacquers (15-20% solids by volume) - Long pot life (9-12month). Very easy to use in all climates. Fairly easy to repair. This used to be my favorite go-to clear top coat. I would spray it with a Graco 9.5 Turbine HVLP siphon cup. Not thinned, I had to use the #6 tip, thinned 20%, I used a #4 tip. I prefer to thin 20% and use the #4 tip and here's why:
I spray a component (door, faceframe, whatever) and then start prepping the next component to be sprayed.
During the time that it takes me to prep the next piece, my sprayed coat has "flashed."
I spray a second "wet coat" and then put the piece on a drying rack.
I could 2 coats of finish at 4mil with just handle the piece once. This saves time and gives a great build - this method is used for sealer and topcoat. I learned it from a professional in Canada - JECO Finishing
--
If you don't thin
You'll spray a little bit slower in movement. The product will not "lay down" as easily.
The product is much more likely to start "gumming up" at the nozzle during extending spraying applications.
Spraying red oak or ash - you have a much greater chance of solvent pop, especially if it is warm outside (85F+)
My recommendation
Thin your precat 15% thinner and 5% reducer. Keep your spray and drying area CLEAN. I have 4 box fans with filters attached running 24/7 to keep the dust outta my shop.
If you spray with an airless - you won't need to thin unless you are spraying a LOT, then you may notice your tips starting to gum up. I thin my PreCat 5% thinner and 5% retarder when spraying with an airless. I get really good results.
Conversion Varnish (post catalyzed - ML Campbell's ClawlockII Primer and Stealth pigmented) - White kitchens are the happening thing in my area. Painting is a bear, a big mean nasty bear. There are NO shortcuts to getting a good finish. All you're money is made is prep prep prep prep, PREP! Especially white, it will expose every Achilles's Heel you may have.
ClawlockII primer (https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=MLC&doctype=PDS&prodno=035777061954&lang=2) is molasses. It is 43-47% solids by volume. from the PDS "When used with conventional air spray, HVLP, AAA, or airless, Clawlock II should be reduced 20% with standard laqcuer thinner. The amount of reduction necessary is dependent on the type of equipment being used."
This stuff is amazing and has excellent building and bridging capabilities.
Using my HVLP gun - I have to thin the material 30% and spray with a 2.2 tip. Thinning it any less and my spray nozzle will start to gum up in short time. I thin with 50% lacquer thinner and 50% Flow Enhancer #1 (https://www.mlcampbell.com/product/flow-enhancer-slow-reducer-1/).
Using my airless - I thin the material 20% (10 thinner, 10 enhancer) and spray with a 313 FF tip (I haven't purchased a 313 FFLP tip yet). If you don't thin this material, it will gum up in minutes at the tip and jack with your pattern!
Stealth pigmented top coat (https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=MLC&doctype=PDS&prodno=035777470640&lang=2) is almost molasses. 35% solids by volume. PDS says straight up - Thin 25% with most equipment. Yesterday I sprayed faceframes and end panels with my airless using a 4-10 FFLP tip and I thinned the material only 10% hoping to get a faster build. WRONG! Holy-gum-up-the-tip-city! That was very frustrating! I had to stop every 5 minutes to remove build up off the tip!
HVLP - same method as Clawlock II.
I'll do another post later on BIN, ADVANCE, Benwood WB poly, ML Campbell Klear CV, and a separate post on Spray No Wipe stains. For now I gotta go.
Contribute! I wanna know what you guys do so I can get better and stop learning in a "Baptism by Fire" that I'm used to.