Two foolish mistakes at table saw cost me, dearly - Graphic Photos!

[Bruce Day]

Not very long ago I was at the table saw trimming the last of four legs of a table I was building. I had turned the saw off for a second to clean some debris off then got ready to do the last one, when I made the mistake of using a push stick instead of my gripper or push block. After I got about half way through the leg I moved a little to the left and stepped on an extension cord I had laid down on the floor ( another mistake) causing me to lose my balance which in turn caused me to lose control of push stick, and you guessed it, left hand into the blade. That night I had two hour surgery, resulting in 210 stitches, majority internal. I lost the left corner of little finger, somehow missed ring finger, cut down into the knuckle on the dirty finger, and lost the tip of the pointer finger also severing the tendon. Pictures below show prior and post surgery. It happened on August 16th and I am still having therapy.

With all the down time I had I started watching guys on you tube and sort of keeping track of all the mistakes I would see and I saw plenty. I was sort of stunned to see how many would put their hands so close to the blade, doing cross cuts with a miter gauge with board against fence, on and on. It just amazed me how many guys was so careless around the table saw.

They say drinking and driving don't mix, neither does careless mistakes and table saws.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Bruce, I am very sad to read that news. I really hope you recover fast and no sequel had let.

Special thanks to remind us even at that difficult moment for you.

God bless you.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

My best wishes are with you and your recovery.
I agree, mistakes happen all the time, and inattentiveness costs hugely.
Will you be able to regain almost full use of your hand?

[Bruce Day]

My best wishes are with you and your recovery.
I agree, mistakes happen all the time, and inattentiveness costs hugely.
Will you be able to regain almost full use of your hand?

I have full use of hand, the only problem is my pointing finger, that has the severed tendon, will always be "stiff", it's hard to curl it like you would if you was to try and pull a trigger

[Ben Zara]

My sympathies and I hope you recover as soon as possible.

[Frederick Skelly]

Im sorry to hear that this happened to you Bruce.
Fred

[William Hodge]

Sorry to hearabout your hand.

Watching You Tube woodworking videos feels like watching the subReddit "Idiots in Cars. https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/new/

There is a certain care free speeded up enthusiastic style of unbounded child-like creativity that gives wood working a magical feel. I wish theywould at least not speed up the video.

[Rod Sheridan]

Bruce, I am very sorry to hear of your injury, I wish you a speedy recovery.

Thanks for taking the time to post and promote saw safety. Were you using a blade guard at the time of the incident?

Once again, wishes for a rapid recovery.........Regards, Rod.

[Bernie May]

Bruce-
Thanks for sharing to remind us all to be attentive at all times.
-bernie

[glenn bradley]

Best wishes on your recovery. Glad that wasn't worse. Thank you for sharing this as we all need constant reminders to stay vigilant. Also, thanks for the detailed account since safety practices like "keeping the work area clear of clutter" is something we read/hear but, may not take to heart that this is not about neatness, its about safety. I agree that a person can find plenty of examples on the web to support improper methods and practices. I feel those of us on the forums need to take safety to the next level in our posts and demonstrations to make sure we aren't providing any of this fools-fodder.

[Martin Siebert]

Very sorry to hear about this accident. It can happen to anyone in a split second. Hope you recover quickly and are back at it soon!!!! Thanks for posting....my shop is set up such that there is sometimes an air hose on the floor passing by my table saw. I think I will now relocate my compressor.

[Matthew Curtis]

This makes me think harder about getting rid of my tablesaw and use my bandsaw instead.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the reminder that it only takes a split second for "stuff" to happen...

I hope you heal well.

[Matt Day]

Tough to hear about this cousin. A sad reminder to have a clean work area (which I fail at a lot). Time to get that ceiling mounted cord reel I’d say.

I wish you well Bruce.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Thanks for the reminder and wish you a speedy, complete recovery.

[Mark Hennebury]

Sorry to hear about your accident. I hope that it heals well.

[michael langman]

I hope you heal well Bruce. I too am faulty of having things on the floor. Extension cords everywhere. Thankyou for the heads up reminder of the bad habits.

[Bruce Day]

Bruce, I am very sad to read that news. I really hope you recover fast and no sequel had let.

Special thanks to remind us even at that difficult moment for you.

God bless you.
Thank you very much

[Bruce Day]

Mistake number three, never thought about not having my blade guard in, which 99 out of a hundred times I do. The strangest thing about whole incident was the leg never kicked back, a person would think it would. A heart felt THANKS to everyone for their best wishes.

[Marshall Harrison]

Sorry to hear about the accident. Hope you have a speedy recovery and no repeats. Thanks for the reminders and listing the mistakes that led up to the accident. Can never have enough reminders.

[Rick Potter]

Thanks for the reminder Bruce. Hope you have a speedy recovery.

Looking at the pics, it could have been a LOT worse, like life changing. Glad it wasn't.

Your post reminds me that one of my two grippers has gone missing for a couple months, and I have been too cheap to replace it, thinking it has to show up sooner or later. I am now rethinking that.

[Mike Henderson]

I wish you a speedy recovery. No matter how hard we try, sometime we make a mistake. I'm glad it wasn't worse.

Mike

[Bruce Day]

Tough to hear about this cousin. A sad reminder to have a clean work area (which I fail at a lot). Time to get that ceiling mounted cord reel I’d say.

I wish you well Bruce.
Already done!

[Mike Kees]

Sorry to hear about this. Hope it heals well for you. Question,how did you contact blade with your LEFT hand ?

[Doug Garson]

Thanks for sharing and I wish you a speedy recovery. Best way to keep the floor clear of cords and hoses is to install hooks on the ceiling like these:

https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/b0ba59d1-27b1-43ea-b19f-bd059f5c6a78/svn/black-everbilt-pegboards-accessories-17954-64_1000.jpg

[Jay Kepley]

Wishing you a speedy and complete recovery. Very sorry to hear about this accident.

[BOB OLINGER]

Bruce,

Our most sincere wish for a speedy and full recovery. Thanks for sharing. I had a mishap a few years back - my left thumb just brushed the blade. I did loose a little feeling in the thumb, otherwise have full use. I learned one thing - that's why they're called accidents - my first one of that degree. Regardless of how safe we think we work, again, that's why accidents (as they are called) happen. In my case, I subsequently purchased a sawstop.

bob o

[Mel Fulks]

Yes, agree with all. Good luck to you. I think that in addition to good habits you need to be in a state of "over control".

[Jack Frederick 135]

Wow! So sorry to hear. And, thank you for having the courage to share.

Something I can learn here, I think, being new to wood working but experienced around tools and equipment I am hyper sensitive to safety. The OP said something about a “gripper”. I think I have seen them online, the yellow micro-jig push block deals? I almost bought one but didn’t understand it’s use or it’s importance... can someone enlighten me? Right now I’m using push blocks and push sticks but am interested in any safety related upgrades.

[John TenEyck]

Bruce, I'm really sorry to read about (and see) your injury. Like everyone, I hope you heal up well and thank you for sharing your experience. In an effort to learn a little more about what happened, was the guard on your saw? If not, would it have helped had it been or would it not have mattered anyway?

John

[Richard Coers]

Sorry for your accident. I sawed through the top knuckle on my left middle finger. It was fused together, but don't even notice the immobility even when typing. The tip of that finger was incredibly sensitive to cold, so be prepared next winter! I'd suggest a change in table saw manufactures now that you know how quickly they can bite. I did.

[James Pallas]

Bruce I hope your rehab goes well. It’s kind of you to share your experience. Gives us all a reminder to be conscious of our surroundings and work practices.
Jim

[Ben Rivel]

Man thats terrible! Best wishes and hopes for a fast and good recovery! Once you get back on the horse, any plans to buy a Sawstop?

[Charlie Hinton]

Looks terrible, sorry that you got cut, hope for the best possible recovery, best wishes for the future.

[Frank Necaise]

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

[Jeff Body]

Live and learn.......
I lost 1/2" of my left pointer finger many years ago when I had it near a power steering belt checking for a loose bolt.

It's a reminder to always think safety and listen to your common sense.

[johnny means]

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Thankfully, they were asked to patch for hand up and get it back on the road, so to say. But, I gotta ask, what makes "the dirty finger" dirty?

[Matt Mattingley]

Wow. Thanks for posting... I think.

Can you show a picture of your setup at time of cut/accident?

[Marshall Harrison]

Wow! So sorry to hear. And, thank you for having the courage to share.

Something I can learn here, I think, being new to wood working but experienced around tools and equipment I am hyper sensitive to safety. The OP said something about a “gripper”. I think I have seen them online, the yellow micro-jig push block deals? I almost bought one but didn’t understand it’s use or it’s importance... can someone enlighten me? Right now I’m using push blocks and push sticks but am interested in any safety related upgrades.

Jack, I love my Gripper but I only have one. Would like to get a second one as using two makes it safer for ripping longer boards.

This video should answer all of your questions on how to use it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6yx8fZaIEw

[Ole Anderson]

Sorry to read of (and see, eek) your injury. Goes to show even good habits (normal use of Gripper and glade guard) sometimes go unrewarded. We all need to see the carnage occasionally as a reminder to use best safety practices at all times. Every time I see or hear of a push stick, I cringe. I won't use them, I use a push shoe that will hold the work down at the same time. Thanks for posting.

[Simon MacGowen]

This video should answer all of your questions on

I noticed that the table saw seen in the gripper video was a sawstop.

Simon

[Wade Lippman]

A friend tripped and slammed his hand down on a table saw. That's when I bought a heavy duty overhead guard, and as soon as I could a ... well, you know.

But we all do careless things. I put my hand into a band saw, but escaped with no permanent damage except a little numbness.
Sorry you weren't as lucky.

[Simon MacGowen]

Right now I’m using push blocks and push sticks but am interested in any safety related upgrades.

The gripper often (not always) requires the blade guard to be removed, and also some people do not like the idea that they are passing directly over a spinning blade in some of the cuts. It has its place though, and I use it also for resawing in some cases.

Push shoes like this (which you can shop make) are better than push sticks:

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Horn-10230-Woodworkers-Safety/dp/B001C4O92I?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_2

Simon

[Marshall Harrison]

I noticed that the table saw seen in the gripper video was a sawstop.

Simon

I think SawStop gave away a ton of those to YouTube content providers. These days most woodworkers learn the craft from YouTube.

Plus I guess its prudent to use something like a SawStop to develop and test your Gripper in case your new Gripper doesn't work.

[Simon MacGowen]

Plus I guess its prudent to use something like a SawStop to develop and test your Gripper in case your new Gripper doesn't work.

Gripper should test their products as you said on a sawstop, but they should show them used in a regular table saw, because that is what most viewers use.

I do like the presenter as he cuts to the chase. Many of the woodworking videos out there would take, say, 15 minutes to cover a subject matter that should not last more than 5 minutes, at the most.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't like the idea of pushing over the blade with a gripper. My father went over a few foundation rules when I started working with machinery as a teenager and one of them was not to push past a cutter. I do it occasionally for things where I'm certain my movement won't put me in contact.

The gripper is neat and I use their jointer push block but the idea of going over a circular saw blade just seems like a bad plan to me.

I feel like certain things are better done on another type of tool, like cutting thin strips can be better done on a bandsaw.

[David Utterback]

Best wishes for a full recovery. Physical therapy can really improve your future utility and sooner started the better.

Regretfully, I had a similar "oops" moment last fall but only needed 3 stitches in the tip of the thumb on my left hand. Your posting helps all of us to be aware at all times.

[Robert Chapman]

Very sorry to hear about your accident Bruce. I do not want to seem insensitive but based upon what you have told us I believe that a SawStop would have saved you from almost all of your injuries.

[Rod Sheridan]

Very sorry to hear about your accident Bruce. I do not want to seem insensitive but based upon what you have told us I believe that a SawStop would have saved you from almost all of your injuries.

Robert, so would using the guard have prevented the injuries.

Hopefully Bruce recovers well and his cantor provides a learning opportunity for others......Regards, Rod.

[Simon MacGowen]

Robert, so would using the guard have prevented the injuries.

Hopefully Bruce recovers well and his cantor provides a learning opportunity for others......Regards, Rod.

Tripping or falling over the tablesaw (say due to a medical condition) is not unheard of as a cause of table saw injuries. Depending on how the loss of balance actually happens, a blade guard may or may not protect the operator from serious injuries. For example, if the operator's hand slid under the guard from the tripping, the injury would not be reduced. The guard is made of plastic (polycarbonate?) and can be cut through if it is pushed on the side.

The only reliable way to keep any blade-contact injury if and when it happens to a minimum is the kind of technology employed by sawstop or Reaxx, blade guard used or not. Of course, the blade guard (and riving knife/splitter) should be used whenever possible (but every experienced woodworker knows that is not always possible, unless an alternative tool is used). In my shop, about 15% of tablesaw cuts cannot be made with the blade guard put in place.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I like the idea of an overhead guard for that purpose, it can be over the blade for everything except cuts where the work is standing on edge. I plan one of those for the tablesaw I’m receiving.

Ive worked in commcerial shops for metal fabrication, they were very clean and careful not to have stuff in the walkways, or on top of work surfaces. Carts were used for partially complete work and materials so that work surfaces can be kept clear. I found it difficult to not work with those rules after I stopped working in a commcercial environment.

[Simon MacGowen]

Brian,

As a sawstop user, I find its dust collection blade guard a motivation to use, because it really works as a dust collection device (except for edge cuts, or with reduced effectiveness when using the miter gauge). Even when cutting mdf. Every time I have to use the saw without the guard (relying on only the under the table dust collection), I can tell the difference from the dust left on the table. For that reason alone, I want to use the guard. Unless the guard gets in the way, I see no benefits of not using it. Can anyone give some practicial examples of why the guard (unless it is a bad one) should not be used?

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I work in a tiny space without much outside air exchange so every bit of dust collection is appreciated.

[Chris Parks]

Not very long ago I was at the table saw trimming the last of four legs of a table I was building. I had turned the saw off for a second to clean some debris off then got ready to do the last one, when I made the mistake of using a push stick instead of my gripper or push block. After I got about half way through the leg I moved a little to the left and stepped on an extension cord I had laid down on the floor ( another mistake) causing me to lose my balance which in turn caused me to lose control of push stick, and you guessed it, left hand into the blade. That night I had two hour surgery, resulting in 210 stitches, majority internal. I lost the left corner of little finger, somehow missed ring finger, cut down into the knuckle on the dirty finger, and lost the tip of the pointer finger also severing the tendon. Pictures below show prior and post surgery. It happened on August 16th and I am still having therapy.

With all the down time I had I started watching guys on you tube and sort of keeping track of all the mistakes I would see and I saw plenty. I was sort of stunned to see how many would put their hands so close to the blade, doing cross cuts with a miter gauge with board against fence, on and on. It just amazed me how many guys was so careless around the table saw.

They say drinking and driving don't mix, neither does careless mistakes and table saws.

I have said many times here that push sticks are dangerous unstable things and that is the best thing that can be said for them. I hope your recovery is as speedy as it can be with minimal after effects on the fingers.

[johnny means]

I liked my push sticks. I find them safe and useful. I also always position myself and push with the assumption that I'm about to discover that I've developed some type of seizure disorder.

[Simon MacGowen]

I liked my push sticks. I find them safe and useful. I also always position myself and push with the assumption that I'm about to discover that I've developed some type of seizure disorder.

Good luck, if you're using this kind https://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERTEC-Magnetic-Push-Stick-71029/207154140


Simon

[Rod Sheridan]

Tripping or falling over the tablesaw (say due to a medical condition) is not unheard of as a cause of table saw injuries. Depending on how the loss of balance actually happens, a blade guard may or may not protect the operator from serious injuries. For example, if the operator's hand slid under the guard from the tripping, the injury would not be reduced. The guard is made of plastic (polycarbonate?) and can be cut through if it is pushed on the side.

The only reliable way to keep any blade-contact injury if and when it happens to a minimum is the kind of technology employed by sawstop or Reaxx, blade guard used or not. Of course, the blade guard (and riving knife/splitter) should be used whenever possible (but every experienced woodworker knows that is not always possible, unless an alternative tool is used). In my shop, about 15% of tablesaw cuts cannot be made with the blade guard put in place.

Simon

Hi Simon, good points however the guard and splitter or riving knife are the only common protections available from kickback injuries. SawStop will not prevent a kickback injury.

I've managed to arrive at the point where all my table saw operations involve a guard, ( I have 3 types for my saw), or I use a stock feeder.

Thanks for a great discussion, and for being such a safety conscious operator.............Regards, Rod.

[Ole Anderson]

A push stick will not keep the work from rising up like a push shoe will.

[Simon MacGowen]

Hi Simon, good points however the guard and splitter or riving knife are the only common protections available from kickback injuries. SawStop will not prevent a kickback injury.
.Regards, Rod.

Agreed that the finger-saving technology is not meant for preventing kickbacks.

In fact, even the riving knife or splitter does not prevent all kickbacks but serves to reduce the chances of kickbacks, because there is a gap between the knife/splitter and the blade. If the stock is pinched between the fence and the blade BEFORE the stock reaches the knife/splitter, kickback can still happen.

A feeder or the like which allows only one direction (forward) for the stock to move will prevent kickbacks.

Simon

[Rick Potter]

Plus one for Simon and Ole's responses. Several times in the past, I have had those basic push sticks slip or the workpiece twisted while using them. Years ago, I copied the handle on my hand saw, and made several push shoe types. I have much more control over the workpiece now.


My local WW club has a raffle at each meeting. I think I will make a couple extras and donate them. It would be nice if someone there has a laser, and we could make up some with our logo for club members who are just getting started.


EDIT: I also have the Gripper, as well as Jessem's roller guides, and several special purpose push sticks/shoes. All work well for their intended purpose, but none are good for all uses. The above push shoe is my go to for about 75% of the time.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I was travelling and didn't get to respond right away, but I wanted to tell you that I did something similar, which ended up cutting off the tip of my thumb. Thankfully, it left 1mm of skin over the bone, and as long as there is some skin over the bone, there is a chance of a skin graft taking hold. They took skin from my elbow and made a new thumb tip. IT LOOKED HORRIBLE at first, and I was so self-conscious about it that I kept a band-aid on it all the time. I wanted to let you know that over time it healed to the point that today you almost cannot tell which thumb was injured. In fact, the doctor told me that because it cut into the quick of the nail, I would most likely lose the nail because quick doesn't grow back when damaged. Well, he was wrong. Not only did I not lose the nail, but the quick regrew and the nail looks normal. I also still have feeling in the tip of my thumb, although it is a little numb.

Image is of thumb a few days after the skin graft was sewn on. Today it looks totally normal. Don't be dismayed at how it looks now. The body is amazing and it will eventually heal to where people will not notice.

406009

[Simon MacGowen]

Image is of thumb a few days after the skin graft was sewn on. Today it looks totally normal. Don't be dismayed at how it looks now. The body is amazing and it will eventually heal to where people will not notice.



Your story reminds me of a TV episode (youtube video) I saw about an Asian wood factory owner (Vietnamese?) who told the hostess that he had his fingers cut three times over the years. The kind of table saw he used was a circular saw mounted under a plywood sheet, and the fence was a wooden strip. When he talked about it, he was like the injuries he suffered were paper cuts!

The most serious injury I learned from another woodworker was someone who had his palm cut by a dado cutter when the board he held down and pushed kicked back. He lost the function of the injured hand afterwards. Non-through cuts can be equally devastating.

Simon

[Mark Hennebury]

It seems that every time i hear accidents described i get totally confused, and have a lot of questions; Like how and why does a dado kickback? What actually happened? and how did his hand get into the blade? was it his left hand or his right hand? Blades don't just randomly decide to kickback, something triggers it, and for a better understanding of how to prevent it we need to understand what went wrong when it happened.



The most serious injury I learned from another woodworker was someone who had his palm cut by a dado cutter when the board he held down and pushed kicked back. He lost the function of the injured hand afterwards. Non-through cuts can be equally devastating.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

Blades don't just randomly decide to kickback, something triggers it, and for a better understanding of how to prevent it we need to understand what went wrong when it happened.

If the story was related to me correctly, the worker was pushing the board forward with his right hand near the fence while having his left hand on the board (knowingly or unknowingly) directly over the line of fire path. Not sure if the kickback occurred because his right hand hooked to the edge of the board too close to the fence (hence pivoting the far edge away from the fence) or what, the board got lifted up and shot to the left of his body, and at the same time, his left hand pushing down was exposed to the dado cutter.

According to the story teller (a woodworker himself knowing the victim), the damage was too severe (as can be imagined) for any function of the fingers to recover.

This story has etched into my head, reminding me every time I use a dado cutter that I use a push pad as well as using it outside the line of fire (even though I use a sawstop).

Simon

[Chris Parks]

I commend the type of push device that Frank Howarth uses for most tasks, very stable, no wider than a conventional push stick and could be changed for direct over the blade use.

[Steve Demuth]

Bruce - sorry about your injury. And thanks for sharing your experience and lessons. Wish the reminder I received wasn't at your (or anyone's) expense.

Everyone - Bruce talked about not using a Gripper, and I get why the push stick is a bad design and how it contributed. But I went and looked at a couple of videos on the Gripper, and while I get that it provides a lot of control that can be valuable for some cuts, every video shows the operator reaching fully and directly over the top of the spinning blade. It also clearly requires dumping the blade guard.

This does not seem like a good thing to me. Isn't this exactly what we want to teach people to not do?

[Rod Sheridan]

Bruce - sorry about your injury. And thanks for sharing your experience and lessons. Wish the reminder I received wasn't at your (or anyone's) expense.

Everyone - Bruce talked about not using a Gripper, and I get why the push stick is a bad design and how it contributed. But I went and looked at a couple of videos on the Gripper, and while I get that it provides a lot of control that can be valuable for some cuts, every video shows the operator reaching fully and directly over the top of the spinning blade. It also clearly requires dumping the blade guard.

This does not seem like a good thing to me. Isn't this exactly what we want to teach people to not do?

Correct, the Gripper would not be allowed in industry because it requires the removal of the guard, which is never a good idea. There are far safer methods of stock control, including using a proper length rip fence, not the long type so common in North America........Regards, Rod.

[Larry Edgerton]

Bruce, I am missing the left index finger, startled when doing an operation that was obviously not safe. In time it is basically forgotten as you just soldier on, but still not a great experience. But then, someone needs to be the example of what not to do.:rolleyes:

[Ed Looney]

There should be a sign next to the on/off switch of every power tool that says. If you do not show me proper respect I will hurt you.

Hope you have a quick recovery.

Ed

[Chris Parks]

Correct, the Gripper would not be allowed in industry because it requires the removal of the guard, which is never a good idea. There are far safer methods of stock control, including using a proper length rip fence, not the long type so common in North America........Regards, Rod.

Very few believe a short fence can work, why that is has to be one of life's mysteries. The concept that the blade takes over from the fence is yet to be understood by most TS users.

[Simon MacGowen]

It also clearly requires dumping the blade guard.

This does not seem like a good thing to me. Isn't this exactly what we want to teach people to not do?

Yes, the blade guard is not used if or when the Gripper is used directly over the blade. The blade guard can still be put in place if the Gripper is used like a push shoe or block on wider stock.

The Gripper is particularly useful for resawing stock (up to 3" wide, depending on the saw fence) as the operation does not require the operator's hand passing directly over the blade.

Interested to know if anyone ever got hurt because of using this type of push aid.

Simon

[Brian Nguyen]

Those push sticks are my least favorite things in the shop, and I prefer the push shoes. That said, the push sticks are meant to be used as dual sticks with one in each hands. That way, you push the lumber with one stick and press the lumber down and against the fence with the other stick in your other hand. But of course, TS only comes with one for some stupid reason and most people toss theirs out for good reason. But a bright side of using two sticks is that you're not left with a free hand to do something stupid like grab at an offcut while the blade is spinning down.



Plus one for Simon and Ole's responses. Several times in the past, I have had those basic push sticks slip or the workpiece twisted while using them. Years ago, I copied the handle on my hand saw, and made several push shoe types. I have much more control over the workpiece now.


My local WW club has a raffle at each meeting. I think I will make a couple extras and donate them. It would be nice if someone there has a laser, and we could make up some with our logo for club members who are just getting started.


EDIT: I also have the Gripper, as well as Jessem's roller guides, and several special purpose push sticks/shoes. All work well for their intended purpose, but none are good for all uses. The above push shoe is my go to for about 75% of the time.

[Edwin Santos]

It seems that every time i hear accidents described i get totally confused, and have a lot of questions; Like how and why does a dado kickback? What actually happened? and how did his hand get into the blade? was it his left hand or his right hand? Blades don't just randomly decide to kickback, something triggers it, and for a better understanding of how to prevent it we need to understand what went wrong when it happened.

Mark,

I don't know anything about the story Simon is relating, but I'll share a dado kickback story in response to your question. I was in a shop where the most experienced woodworker among us was cutting a dado across the grain in 1/2" ply using the fence. He was pushing with his right hand along the fence when partway through the cut, the blade set's back teeth grabbed the workpiece throwing it forward and in the process dragging his hand into the blade.

The good part of the story is that it was a SawStop machine so the cartridge triggered and his cut was enough to bleed quite a bit, but not require anything more than some basic bandaging.

About 20 minutes later he insisted on demonstrating what happened and what he did wrong. A group of 5 of us spent 15 minutes talking about several root causes that combined to create the outcome.
One of them was his failure to use a push block.
Another was that the workpiece was wider than it was long which just increased the potential to lever away from the fence.
Another factor we concluded was that the table could have used a waxing because there was too much drag between this particular ply and the table surface. The drag only made the lever situation worse.
We also concluded that a dado blade set is the same thing as multiple blades in other words much more forward force fighting against keeping the workpiece against the fence and moving forward. This is a meaningful factor with just one normal blade. A 3/4" dado set increases this factor by 6x. Also lots of teeth available to grab.
I had my own theory that he was not keeping his attention on the fence to notice that the workpiece was drifting at the earliest point possible but he didn't mention it so I kept this suspicion to myself.

My co-worker said he suffered more injury to his ego than his hand, but had it not been for the Sawstop, I think his hand would have been mincemeat. I learned a lot from this fellow in general and thought it was very professional for him to swallow his pride and review the incident with everyone else.

BTW, when this incident happened, I was on the other side of the shop using (I think) a bandsaw. When the SawStop cartridge fired, I thought a gunshot went off and it was totally startling. It made me wonder whether anyone has ever gotten hurt on a whole other machine due to being startled by a SawStop being triggered elsewhere in the shop. Wouldn't that be ironic.

Edwin

[Mark Bolton]

I have scraped push sticks and will never own a sawstop. $1k full blown retail for a feeder and a few half wheels, and using it, in combination with a slider that (unless you just have a disposition to be callous/reckless) keeps your hands completely free and clear of the blade, makes the most sense. I can rip horrifically thin strips on the slider with simple jigs (F&F), and can then rip 2000/LF of base or case with the feeder, and my (and more so my employees) fingers are never within a foot of the blade.. ever.

Sad for the injury. When I saw the initial post I didnt look at it until there were a few pages of replies because I dont do the "visuals" of fingers mauled and cut off.

[Mark Bolton]

Another was that the workpiece was wider than it was long which just increased the potential to lever away from the fence.

This is your delimiter. Paying attention to the fence relies on your reaction time which will never be fast enough. A pushblock is useless in overcoming the power an inertia of a dado stack or a single blade. Waxed table would simply have gotten you to the bloody conclusion faster. I sat for a period trying to conclude how a blade rotating counter to the feed could have back teeth that would throw the piece forward.. its impossible. The part got pinched and the operators imposed force on the part is what caused the part to move forward. A blade spinning in opposition the the force applied can only send the part back at the operator (kickback).

What likely happened (I have unfortunately seen it) is the dado kicked back, the part raised up and rode along the top of the blade like a tire, and the blade didnt throw the part forwards (against the blades rotation) the operators influence (shoving the part forward) pushed the part forward which firsbee'd the part forward and exposed the blade, and he fell into the blade. (nano-second). There is no way possible for a blade to throw a part forward. It may catch and whip or frisbee forward. But his influence was what caused the forward movement.

This is why the best advice is always to think of "if the part were to disappear... where is the force I am applying to my hands.. going to put my hands.. "

[Simon MacGowen]

When the SawStop cartridge fired, I thought a gunshot went off and it was totally startling. It made me wonder whether anyone has ever gotten hurt on a whole other machine due to being startled by a SawStop being triggered elsewhere in the shop. Wouldn't that be ironic.

Edwin

It has been documented that someone injured his hand because he got startled by a light bulb popping as he was making some cut on the tablesaw. The incident report did not say if he was wearing any ear protection.

Simon

[Edwin Santos]

This is your delimiter. Paying attention to the fence relies on your reaction time which will never be fast enough. A pushblock is useless in overcoming the power an inertia of a dado stack or a single blade. Waxed table would simply have gotten you to the bloody conclusion faster. I sat for a period trying to conclude how a blade rotating counter to the feed could have back teeth that would throw the piece forward.. its impossible. The part got pinched and the operators imposed force on the part is what caused the part to move forward. A blade spinning in opposition the the force applied can only send the part back at the operator (kickback).

What likely happened (I have unfortunately seen it) is the dado kicked back, the part raised up and rode along the top of the blade like a tire, and the blade didnt throw the part forwards (against the blades rotation) the operators influence (shoving the part forward) pushed the part forward which firsbee'd the part forward and exposed the blade, and he fell into the blade. (nano-second). There is no way possible for a blade to throw a part forward. It may catch and whip or frisbee forward. But his influence was what caused the forward movement.

This is why the best advice is always to think of "if the part were to disappear... where is the force I am applying to my hands.. going to put my hands.. "

Mark B - Based on some of your response, I can see I was not clear enough in what I wrote.
When I say the workpiece was thrown forward, I meant forward in relation to the blade's spinning direction i.e. toward the operator. When the workpiece was thrown, it was not thrown straight, it rotated and because the operator's hand was a little past the blade when it happened, his hand was dragged into it. Pretty much as you describe with your frisbee example. Sorry for being unclear.

After all, they call it kickback, not kickforward. Looks like I need to go back to grammar school!
Edwin

[Simon MacGowen]

When I say the workpiece was thrown forward, I meant forward in relation to the blade's spinning direction i.e. toward the operator.
Edwin

That was the interpretation I made out of your first post.

I had seen two authors referring to the front and back of a tablesaw differently in their articles. One referred to the 'front' as the edge that was close to his body, while the other "front" being the far edge of the saw.

Simon

[Edwin Santos]

This is your delimiter. Paying attention to the fence relies on your reaction time which will never be fast enough. A pushblock is useless in overcoming the power an inertia of a dado stack or a single blade. Waxed table would simply have gotten you to the bloody conclusion faster."

Mark B -
I'm not sure what you're saying here. If you are dismissing the use of pushblocks, waxing tables and paying attention to the fence, then I respectfully disagree.

If all you're saying is that these practices were not the cause of the incident I described, you might be right, but I still would disagree with the notion of abandoning them. The fact that the operator wasn't doing any of these things did not help.

I personally believe reducing friction on all machine tables where a workpiece is moving, is quite important. When there is too much drag, it forces to operator to push harder than should be necessary, which itself is unsafe. Same reason any chef will tell you a blunt knife is far more dangerous than a sharp one.

Of course, anyone is free to do as they please in their own shop. I admit to being belt/suspenders conservative when it comes to safety.
Edwin

[Simon MacGowen]

Mark B -
I'm not sure what you're saying here. If you are dismissing the use of pushblocks, waxing tables and paying attention to the fence, then I respectfully disagree.


Edwin

I am not so sure about the wax thing simply because I never wax my table, and use something else for rust prevention. However, paying attention to keeping stock tight to the fence is what I do EVERY single time I use the saw. I suspect that could be a reason, among other things, why kickback has never happen (so far) in my shop.

Simon

[Mark Bolton]

I wax everything. And use pushblocks when needed. I guess I didnt comprehend forward progression of workflow as.pushing a part forward through the saw as if to move forward in the progression of your workflow or to move a part forward into the blade and then somehow related that a blade that is resisting your forward progression somehow had some wierd back teeth that could throw the work forward which actually meant backwards. But whatever.

I use wax with reckless abandon. All sliding surfaces are liberally and regularly waxed. If the event ever is to happen (avoided at all costs) I use pushblocks and feeders to keep my hands (again employees) as far away from the sharp stuff as possible.

If your aim is to be argumentative you failed. As I said... the pushblock would have failed your dude. The wax would have failed your dude. He ran a part through the saw against the fence that was wider than it was long. If he was teaching.. he publicly learned a humiliating lesson that it sounds like he then tried to recover from.

We all make mistakes

[Bruce Day]

Sorry to hear about this. Hope it heals well for you. Question,how did you contact blade with your LEFT hand ?
I was holding the table with my right hand and pushing with left, it was spitting shavings like mad and I was standing to the right, took a couple thick shavings from a previous leg I was trimming. I am right handed and used my grripper on previous leg. I turned off ts to clean top off and when I started on last leg I grabbed push stick instead. Can't give you honest answer why except to say big mistake.

[Bruce Day]

You don't have to tell me about cold, scooping first snow and found out hard way, even after my physical therapist warned me!

[Bruce Day]

Not much to show. Was a hot day and I had my saw at the edge of garage door but in shade. Had my wet vac beside saw so it would be easy to turn on/off and that's why I had the cord laying behind me.

[Bruce Day]

Couldn't agree more about hand going over the blade, hell, I got a little nervous in my own way doing dado cuts, I think about wider blades and something weird happens.

[Bruce Day]

I've been looking at some of the different kinds of pushing methods. Trying not to put myself in a overly too cautious frame of mind.

[Bruce Day]

Finding out it's going to take some time. First time I turned ts on turned it right back off and did something else. Done it a couple times, in fact when I got home from hospital it was 8 days before I went into my little shop.

[Bruce Day]

I would settle for Mr. Dewalt to just slap me around a little. He didn't play nice :)

[Bruce Day]

No, the guard wasn't on at the time but I feel 100% sure that it would have prevented it, not a doubt in my mind. Not trying to be graphic, but I watched it happen.

[Bruce Day]

When I get enough saved up, and I can promise you I'm saving like mad. In fact, that's one on the questions I'm going to be asking the guys here on the Creek for some pointers on what to look for in one!

[Ted Reischl]

For the life of me I cannot understand all the videos I see of people pushing work through a TS with their right hand and the left hand pushing the cutoff past the blade, sometimes quite close.

I absolutely never, ever, push anything through the TS with my right hand as the push block. Ever. I use push shoes that I make on the cnc router with a nice saw handle that sits way above the stock. My left hand does nothing. The cutoff stops when it is severed, the blade does not reach out and grab it so I see no point in pushing it past the blade. Typically I will push the piece I am cutting past the blade and use the heel of the push show to move the piece clear of the blade. I am very careful about that last, making sure I am well past the blade. I am tall and have long arms so it is easy for me to do. Been doing it this way for about forty years now.

Oh, sheet stock. . . If what I am cutting off is like 18 inches wide or greater, then yes, I will push it thru with my right hand since a push shoe doesn't work real well doing that type of cut.

Another observation: I am fed up with folks who use european style saws stating that a "proper" fence is the one they use. I use a long fence to straighten the edge of boards, just like is done on a jointer. Try that with a European fence. I even have one that is about 8 feet long to work on longer pieces. My rip fence is a UniFence which I can shorten just like a European style fence. I have run it that way and well, it just does not seem all that advantageous to me. Once I discovered I could create a straight edge on a TS just as well, maybe better, than a jointer I sold the jointer.

[Lance Conry]

Hi Bruce,

I'm really sorry to hear of your misfortune. I shattered a bone in my foot with permanent repercussions several years ago. It really can knock the wind from your sails. It's a humbling reminder that despite our best efforts and intentions, accidents can and do happen. We can plan and mitigate as much as we are able, but at the end of it all, to guarantee safety, we'd have to spend our leisure time sitting on the couch watching TV instead of pursuing our hobbies and interests ... and who wants to do that!


Unless the guard gets in the way, I see no benefits of not using it. Can anyone give some practicial examples of why the guard (unless it is a bad one) should not be used?

Simon

Hi Simon,

This is not why a blade guard "should" not be used, but rather an example of why one "would" not be used.

When I first started using a table saw, I was looking after a friend's saw. It is an older unit, and unlike your Sawstop, when you want do do a non through-cut, or use a sled, removing the blade guard is a good five minute (at least) exercise. You need to turn off the power at the wall, drop the blade most of the way down into the cavity, remove the insert, and get your hand with a socket/spanner inside the cabinet cavity (and in most cases, slice your hand or fore-arm on the blade teeth as you manoeuvre) and remove two nuts, which allows the blade guard to be removed. Do a couple of cuts, and reverse the entire procedure again. Do this several times over the course of an evening, and you've lost a fair bit of time to taking the blade guard on and off. I know my friend never had the blade guard installed because he considered it too inconvenient (plus he knows better craftsmen who do it, so it must be ok). I'm a bit of a stickler, so went through the motions each time, bit it was very inconvenient, and gets old very fast.

In my mind, this was a case of the manufacturer needing to provide a blade guard, but did nothing to encourage people to use it. A bit like a car manufacturer providing seat belts, but which require occupants to carry a spanner with them, to bolt/un-bolt the belt every time they put it on/took it off. Would there be any wonder why fewer people would use seat belts?

I now have a high quality cabinet saw, and there are so many little "features" that make it safe. One being that it is dead easy and FAST to switch between the blade guard and riving knife. 10 seconds and I'm done.

Lance