How big is the market for (new) sliding table saws?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Someone asked about an Altendorf saw, and that sent me down a rabbit hole of reading. Altendorf only makes sliding table saws, and their website says they have made 150,000 saws in the 111 years the company has existed (~1,500/yr). I think that's a really interesting figure. Their website also makes me want to move to Germany and be a sliding table saw engineer at their very nice looking office :) (https://www.altendorf.com/en/company/locations.html)

Assuming an average price of $20k/saw (in today's dollars), that's ~$25M/yr in revenue, which seems pretty thin.

Then I got thinking: Felder, SCMI, Robland, Martin, Griggio....that's a lot of people making high-end sliders (not to mention the Asian imports).

The number of high-end sliders that get scrapped every year must be quite small, and the market for them can't possibly be growing (in light of CNC, greater automation, bigger factories, etc), can it? So how many new sliders get made in a given year? 10,000?

(Just a curiosity...)

[Mike Kees]

Dan nothing personal but I think you have too much time on your hands.:D

[Dan Friedrichs]

Haha you may be right, Mike :)

It just seems like an odd market, to me. It's not like a car or even cordless power tools where they break, wear out, or go dramatically out of date.

Ok, I'll go find a real project :)

[Jim Becker]

Historically, sliders have played a very important roll in the various pieces of the woodworking/cabinetry industry. In the commercial space, while I believe they will still have a place, there is a major swing to CNC for a lot of the tasks that these sliders took on so that may reduce the market for them in that context. I think there is growing interest in the hobbyist world, but not in huge numbers because of economics. I think there could a good potential market for "short sliders" that are competitively priced with high-end cabinet saws at this point.

I personally wouldn't give mine up, having the choice for sure....

[Reinis Kanders]

https://www.altendorf.com/en/company/news/press/avedon-capital-partners-acquires-majority-in-wilhelm-altendorf-gmbh-co-kg.html

"Globally the company employs more than 250 people and has sustained continuous growth in the past years. In 2016 Altendorf Group generated
revenues of 40m EUR."

Looks like revenue per employee is not that great, 160K.

[Richard Coers]

I'd say the market is shrinking quickly for sliding table saws! CNC routers, precision vertical panel saws, and beam saws that cut 4-6 sheets at a time have captured a high percentage of the panel processing market.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Dan, a slider has never been an industrial saw, things like beam saws are.

Small shops and hobby users buy sliders.

You’re correct about revenue per employee though, rough estimate of where I work is over $3,000,000 per employee......Rod

[Carl Beckett]

Then there is the buggy whip manufacturing analogy - although a market shrinks there is still potential business serving a small niche.

Was curious about rev/emp so did a quick search and was surprised. Thought they would be dominated by software (which scales pretty nicely without adding much headcount). Top 50 are all over $1m/emp.

In a manufacturing business model where real hardware is being produced, it might be hard to maintain a very high rev/emp. Although in the altruistic sense, I am not sure it is a great metric. Generating jobs is one way to have the most significant impact on the community and helping improve the lives of others. High rev/employee is generating business while adding minimal jobs. Great for the few that work there, and for stockholders, but may not make as many jobs.

https://priceonomics.com/which-companies-generate-the-highest-revenue-per/

[Reinis Kanders]

Hi Dan, a slider has never been an industrial saw, things like beam saws are.

Small shops and hobby users buy sliders.

You’re correct about revenue per employee though, rough estimate of where I work is over $3,000,000 per employee......Rod

Banks do roughly 4-500K per employee. Facebook, Google is 1M per employee. Where do you work? I will invest in your company:)

[Joe Calhoon]

Large format sliders have always been used as jack of all trades saws in Europe for solid wood and panels. Not so much as dedicated panel processing machines. Most shops there use vertical saws for panels and larger shops use beam saws.

The market for sliders and shapers is smaller because of CNC. The difference now with CNC a shop will only need one slider instead of a couple and one shaper instead of 2 or 3. And many shops with CNC can use older shapers and saws without the need to upgrade to more modern machines. A lot of tasks, especially in custom shops is quicker with standard machines.

[Rod Sheridan]

Banks do roughly 4-500K per employee. Facebook, Google is 1M per employee. Where do you work? I will invest in your company:)

I would like to invest in my company as well, however we're privately owned.

There is alk of a public offering, if it happens I'll let you know..............Rod.