Pathogens in spalted wood?

[Steve Mathews]

While reading Spalted Wood by Sara C. Robinson Et al. I learned that some fungi creating spalting may be pathogenic. Should I be concerned turning spalted wood? Are typical dust masks that we typically use enough protection?

[Reed Gray]

From her demonstrations I have attended, the fungi that cause the spalting will only work on wood/cellulose. However, depending on where you pick it up, there can be all sorts of other fungi and 'stuff' on the wood that can cause problems. I don't worry about dust collection when turning wet wood since any chunks of debris are pretty big, but I do use protection when sweeping up...

robo hippy

[Ralph Lindberg]

Generally no.
First if you are working dry wood the fungus is dead (which I learned from Seri herself)
Second, as Robo notes, the spalting fungus attacks wood.
Third, as Seri notes (as does a Pulmonologist in our local club) wood-dust is more dangerous then spalting fungi

now there are people that are unusually sensitive and should take extra precautions (COPD, etc)
There is also a non-splating fungus, native to Asia that is now endemic in the woods of the Pacific NorthWest that can kill, it produces as toxin

Lastly the colors (dyes) that spalting fungus produce is generally safe, in fact the material in "zone lines" is from the same family that gives human skin color.
There is an exception in there is one red compound that is unhealthy.

She is currently (Chapter 3 I think) working on a new book on DIY wood spalting. No guess on publication date

She is doing several rotations at the Oregon Symposium next week, I hope to hear some updates on her other latest "things" then

[Alex Zeller]

I don't know if it helps but after turning a wet blank I wipe it down with isopropyl alcohol to help kill the fungi. The one I didn't do started getting fuzzy while drying. I'm sure it doesn't soak in very deep but I've always assumed that mold and fungus needs moisture. Once dry I would think you could heat the wood up in an oven or microwave. If I remember correctly you don't need to get too hot to kill them.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

There is a great deal of misinformation and I find out after some tests week whether I have some form of NTM in my lungs. (Non tuberculin mycobacteria) or similar acting fungus a fungus or bacterial infection in the lungs.) First of all you don't get a fungal infection from live fungus but from the spores which can be microscopic little dust particles that can survive dry for sometimes years waiting for a nice wet warm place to hatch and grow. The types of fungus and bacteria that cause such lung conditions are present in everyday soil, and also in, wet and waterlogged decaying wood. You can get it from bird and animal droppings, dust from construction, hay dust, etc. Did any of you ever step on a puff ball fungus? (also known as sheep's heads) the brown dried spores come out like a cloud to seed for the coming year. It is an uncommon occurrence across the population, but for those who live with exposure to all the various sources, farmers, poultry workers, folks who cut firewood, etc, the risks are greater. The risks of getting something from spalted wood turning are greater than for the average member of the public, but still not significantly higher. In 2003 we began heating the house with wood and I was spending a lot of time cleaning up dead falls around the farm. I was cutting all kinds of punky, spalted and wet wood. I baled hay for the last 20 years, and had chickens and ducks for several years. I may have picked up something and apparently this condition started years ago. Apparently this whatever showed up in my lungs in 2013 (and no one told me then) and have gotten progressively worse since. It could even be something that has been brewing since I was in my 20's and helped my ex-father in law with stacking hay in the barn several summers or from tearing our old walls in a house that had had a leaking roof and the walls were damaged and moldy.

And think about another thing. Turning wet wood may keep the dust to a minimum, but it still atomizes microscopic bits of the wood and moisture into the air.

[richard shelby]

In a previous life I was a phyto(plant) pathologist, and generally speaking, the fungi causing spalting are mostly basidiomycetes (mushrooms and related), and not normally human pathogens. There are plenty of human fungal pathogens and plant fungal pathogens, but I know of no case where one species can be both. The danger as I understand it is the aerosol particulates which arise as partially rotted wood is flung into the environment as a result of our turning. This will include the aforementioned spores similar to the ones we all pick up in a dusty environment. Our respiratory system can filter and purge some amount of these particulates, getting none in there is always the best option. I have also wondered if we could inoculate wood to induce spalting in a controlled manner, even to use different fungi, with different colors, etc. I use a similar inoculation method to grow shiitake mushrooms on logs. I have attempted to spalt logs simply by placing them on the ground outside over the course of a summer, with mixed results. After all, its causing the wood to rot. If Ms. Robinson has a method to accomplish "engineered spalting" I would be fascinated. Keep us posted. RS

[John K Jordan]

In a previous life I was a phyto(plant) pathologist, and generally speaking, the fungi causing spalting are mostly basidiomycetes (mushrooms and related), and not normally human pathogens. There are plenty of human fungal pathogens and plant fungal pathogens, but I know of no case where one species can be both. The danger as I understand it is the aerosol particulates which arise as partially rotted wood is flung into the environment as a result of our turning. This will include the aforementioned spores similar to the ones we all pick up in a dusty environment. Our respiratory system can filter and purge some amount of these particulates, getting none in there is always the best option. I have also wondered if we could inoculate wood to induce spalting in a controlled manner, even to use different fungi, with different colors, etc. I use a similar inoculation method to grow shiitake mushrooms on logs. I have attempted to spalt logs simply by placing them on the ground outside over the course of a summer, with mixed results. After all, its causing the wood to rot. If Ms. Robinson has a method to accomplish "engineered spalting" I would be fascinated. Keep us posted. RS

Interesting! Now I'll know who to ask about such stuff!

A couple of years ago Charles Richards posted some tips on his method of spalting log sections. I've tried it with reasonable results. His posts start here in the thread:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?250947-Spalted-Liquid-Amber&p=2648072#post2648072

Some of the rest of the thread might be worth reading. Somewhere in the thread I posted this picture of some spalted turning blanks - I've used some of these and have a lot more now but no new photo. My new favorite spalted wood is dogwood but hard to make.

405173

I bought Sara Robinson's first book on spalting as soon as it came out - excellent. I'd probably buy any book she wrote. (BTW, her name is given as Sara in the book and Seri on her web site.)

As for the health aspect, I think a good DC and respirator is the best thing, same as with working any wood. I keep 3M respirators handy all over the shop. (and around the farm - I use one when moving and stacking hay, cleaning the chicken and peacock houses, etc.)

JKJ

[robert baccus]

Thirty years back I found a Sweet gum log just infested with bright red striped fungus threads--wow. Turned some really nice pieces and found myself in bed for 3 days. Several friends tried it and all were effected by it--one was in the hospital for 3 days. Several spalts/fungus spores have affected me over the years but not like this stuff. I saved some shavings and innoculated some fresh cut logs and produced some beautiful wood but only turned it with a mask, exhaust fan behind my lathe and an intake fan(for positive pressure) on the other side of my shop--is this a run on? I still have some spores from the original log--spores last forever and are everywhere practically. The number of fungi/molds is beyond counting and these mutate regularly so anything is possible in nature.

[John K Jordan]

Thirty years back I found a Sweet gum log just infested with bright red striped fungus threads--wow. Turned some really nice pieces and found myself in bed for 3 days. Several friends tried it and all were effected by it--one was in the hospital for 3 days. Several spalts/fungus spores have affected me over the years but not like this stuff. I saved some shavings and innoculated some fresh cut logs and produced some beautiful wood but only turned it with a mask, exhaust fan behind my lathe and an intake fan(for positive pressure) on the other side of my shop--is this a run on? I still have some spores from the original log--spores last forever and are everywhere practically. The number of fungi/molds is beyond counting and these mutate regularly so anything is possible in nature.

Robert, can you describe the method you use to innoculate a fresh logs? Just spread a bit on the end? Cover with something?

Over 10 years ago I covered a small bowl blank with plastic wrap to keep it wet overnight and forgot about it until I found it recently. It was covered with the most interesting fungi and the spalting inside was incredible! There were several colors but the rich green is what I'd like to reproduce. I had enough good wood turn turn a few small things but would love to get some more.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

Seri says that the only person who calls her Sara is her mom. She also has a 3 book set out of Sci Fi, with 'real science' in it. Series is Ardulum, and pen name is J S Fields. I read a lot of books like that and consider hers to be very well done. Want to see more of it...

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

... She also has a 3 book set out of Sci Fi, with 'real science' in it. Series is Ardulum, and pen name is J S Fields. I read a lot of books like that and consider hers to be very well done. Want to see more of it...

I enjoyed the books too, perhaps I found out about them from you.

[Roger Davis TN]

Hey, I use my old C-pap machine for all wood particulate protection. Wood dust sends me to the Neti pot to wash out the sinuses or I get a headache. I have been using this cpap successfully. I wrap the machine in three linen bags with filter in machine. You can buy a cpap on Craig's list cheap. This sure beats three hundred to one thousand dollar units. The hose is bothersome but the air is dust/bug free. Just be sure that the hose doesn't get in the lathe. So far even this is no problem. If it did it would just detach from the mast very easily. Roger.

[robert baccus]

Robert, can you describe the method you use to innoculate a fresh logs? Just spread a bit on the end? Cover with something?

Over 10 years ago I covered a small bowl blank with plastic wrap to keep it wet overnight and forgot about it until I found it recently. It was covered with the most interesting fungi and the spalting inside was incredible! There were several colors but the rich green is what I'd like to reproduce. I had enough good wood turn turn a few small things but would love to get some more.

JKJ

John, I just scrubbed in a handfull of shavings into the damp endgrain of log sections. I turn mostly large log sections so all my wood is some degree of green. Also I keep all my wood wetted and tarped to prevent drying, cracking and promotes spalting. I live in a forest by the way. I hate drab wood and big dry wood--snobby huh.

[Ralph Lindberg]

Thirty years back I found a Sweet gum log just infested with bright red striped fungus threads--wow. Turned some really nice pieces and found myself in bed for 3 days. Several friends tried it and all were effected by it--one was in the hospital for 3 days. Several spalts/fungus spores have affected me over the years but not like this stuff. I saved some shavings and innoculated some fresh cut logs and produced some beautiful wood but only turned it with a mask, exhaust fan behind my lathe and an intake fan(for positive pressure) on the other side of my shop--is this a run on? I still have some spores from the original log--spores last forever and are everywhere practically. The number of fungi/molds is beyond counting and these mutate regularly so anything is possible in nature.

Robert, Seri told me the one (and I don't recall which one) of the spalting fungi produces a 'red' that is toxic, sounds like you ran into this fungus. The compounds like this (and the blues, greens, zone-lines, etc) are ant-fungal in nature and yes they are looking at applications for these compounds, but she wouldn't talk about what/why/which.

[Ralph Lindberg]

Robert, can you describe the method you use to innoculate a fresh logs? Just spread a bit on the end? Cover with something?

Over 10 years ago I covered a small bowl blank with plastic wrap to keep it wet overnight and forgot about it until I found it recently. It was covered with the most interesting fungi and the spalting inside was incredible! There were several colors but the rich green is what I'd like to reproduce. I had enough good wood turn turn a few small things but would love to get some more.

JKJ

John, Seri's new book (I believe she is on chapter 4 now) will cover methods to do this. I know I've heard her talk on "how too" a couple times, very interesting

[John K Jordan]

John, Seri's new book (I believe she is on chapter 4 now) will cover methods to do this. I know I've heard her talk on "how too" a couple times, very interesting

Thanks. I'll watch her web site for the new book. I looked at her courses and things - that would be some time and money well spent.

JKJ

[Scott T Smith]

My own experience in this area is from operating a sawmill.

What I have noted is that if I mill many salted logs w/o some type of dust mask or respirator, I will usually get sick for several days. Once I started wearing a respirator this problem went away.

It happened enough times that it was not coincidence.

YMMV.

[Dan Hall]

I use surgical masks that have elastic loops for over the ear attachment. The stamped 3M masks stop very little dust. Better still is a fitted OSHA mask with particulate filters (purple usually). I use one with the yellow/brown filters (organic vapors) when painting or using aromatic solvents; most of them anyway. When using alcohols I breath deeply and often. :)