China Machines

[Tim Cardinal]

Hi there,
New to this forum,
I have worked as a woodworker/ cabinet maker for the better part of my 40 year work career. I have had my own shop and have worked in high end custom shops.

I'm in the process of setting up a small shop in a new 600sqft building I just finished. I was online looking at Chines made Machines, I have about 20 emails back and forth trying to get a better understanding of the tools.

I was thinking of a slider saw and a combo jointer/planer or a full combo 7 in one.

Anyone ever order direct from China?

[Frank Pratt]

I know nothing about that machine, but China is certainly capable of making some excellent machinery. The quality depends on what the market wants them to build.

[Nick Decker]

No idea how to search for it, but there was a fairly recent thread about someone who did what you're describing. Sounded more involved with importing and customs, etc., than I would have been comfortable with. Then there's the matter of warranty issues...

[Jim Andrew]

If you are in an area where you can find good used machines, why not just buy good used machines?

[Dan Friedrichs]

No idea how to search for it, but there was a fairly recent thread about someone who did what you're describing. Sounded more involved with importing and customs, etc., than I would have been comfortable with. Then there's the matter of warranty issues...

This is the thread Nick is referring to:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?265986-Importing-Combination-Machine-from-China-as-an-Individual-My-Adventure-(So-Far)


(my impression, at the time of reading the thread, was that it seemed like a LOT of work, risk, and future headache to save ~50% off what you could buy a common/popular machine like a Minimax or Hammer for)

[Nick Decker]

Thanks, Dan, for finding the thread, and for confirming that my memory isn't just a series of random hallucinations. :)

[Erik Loza]

I understand folks wanting to save money but combo machines, regardless of where they’re made, are complex and can be rendered completely useless by just a few missing or damaged parts. I saw plenty of damaged and destroyed machines just between Atlanta and domestic addresses. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[tom lucas]

I have several chinese machines, but no multi-tool device. Mine are mostly Grizzly and Jet. I like them all. For a hobbiest, I'm way ahead on money compared to NA or European machine costs. However, Grizzly and Jet are here to help. And no one machine cost thousands of dollars. To import a multi-tool that costs thousands, I'm not sure I'd do it. No real support and a lot of hassle as you are the importer. If a multi-tool is what you want, I'd look for a used Euro or bite the bullet and pony up the cash for a new one.

[Tim Cardinal]

I think your right about that..

[Tim Cardinal]

If you are in an area where you can find good used machines, why not just buy good used machines?
space is my concern. I started looking for a sliding saw with scoring and a combo plainer Jointer..that lead to the 7 function combo machine..I only have single phase and not interested in building another phase converter so most used sliding panel saws are 3 ph and 7 or so HP,

[Dan Friedrichs]

Tim, if you haven't, check out either the Hammer C3-31 or the Minimax LAB300.

Either can be had (new) for ~$10k (USD).

The Hammer, at least, is single-phase, accepts a dado stack, has a scoring blade, and has a helical head on the jointer/planer (unlike the one you linked or Matt S's machine, which I think both have straight knives). And (compared to the no-name ones) you get the benefit of warranty, local support, parts availability long into the future, and a much better resale value.

[Erik Loza]

space is my concern. I started looking for a sliding saw with scoring and a combo plainer Jointer..that lead to the 7 function combo machine..I only have single phase and not interested in building another phase converter so most used sliding panel saws are 3 ph and 7 or so HP,

If you can swing the initial investment, a full combo is the way to go. In my experience, most folks who went the individual j/p and saw/shaper route did so because the initial price point for the 5-in-1 was too high or they already had a table saw. If I was starting from scratch and had the money, I’d do a full combo but I understand the budget concern as well. Where are you located?

Erik

[Jim Becker]

If you can swing the initial investment, a full combo is the way to go. In my experience, most folks who went the individual j/p and saw/shaper route did so because the initial price point for the 5-in-1 was too high or they already had a table saw. If I was starting from scratch and had the money, I’d do a full combo but I understand the budget concern as well. Where are you located?

Erik

I agree with this, although in my case, I had to do the saw separate from the J/P because of how my shop space is with a stairway that couldn't be removed.

To the original question, I'd personally be reluctant to do any importation myself for something this complex, especially with so many good choices available with better chances for support if it's needed. The referenced thread about direct importation of a machine awhile back just reinforced this for me. It was a successful endeavor, but a whole lot of work and running around to pull it off. Time is money...

[Bill Space]

...To the original question... It was a successful endeavor, but a whole lot of work and running around to pull it off. Time is money...

I’m in bed with Jim on this...wait, that doesn’t sound right...I agree with Jim, I would never undertake importing a machine from anywhere, after reading the original thread. Too much running around and uncertainty.

But as for “Time is money,” Jim I can see you are not fully retired yet! :D

[Brian Holcombe]

Add the cost of LTL ocean freight plus managing the import plus duties and then add local delivery to that. LTL ocean freight can be pretty expensive.

[Jim Becker]

But as for “Time is money,” Jim I can see you are not fully retired yet!
Time is money even for someone not employed. :) But to your statement, while I'm officially retired from "full time work" in the sense of working for someone else, my new woodworking business is kicking up a bit and I'm getting some consulting hours with my former employer, so yea...busy. In a good way. Of course, Professor Dr. SWMBO is CEO of the corporation and majority stockholder, so I guess I do work for someone else. :o

[Tim Cardinal]

Ill have a look...I'm in Canada so the exchange is not so good right now

[Tim Cardinal]

If you can swing the initial investment, a full combo is the way to go. In my experience, most folks who went the individual j/p and saw/shaper route did so because the initial price point for the 5-in-1 was too high or they already had a table saw. If I was starting from scratch and had the money, I’d do a full combo but I understand the budget concern as well. Where are you located?

Erik
I never thought I would consider a combo..but with only 600 sq ft..it looks promising

[Erik Loza]

I never thought I would consider a combo..but with only 600 sq ft..it looks promising

For perspective, one of my first customers had a full combo with 8.5’ slider and 16” jointer/planer in a two-car garage and could still park his minivan in there. I used to travel the country with a 12” combo with 5.5’ slider. All broken down, that thing fit basically onto a 4X6 pallet for transport. I think you have plenty of room.

Erik

[Mike Kees]

Tim have you looked at Cantek machines ? Ackhurst in Edmonton/Vancouver sell them. Not sure where you are located,I would assume they have an Eastern Canada outlet. Now that I have mentioned them I am not even sure if they have combination machines...

[Tim Cardinal]

If you can swing the initial investment, a full combo is the way to go. In my experience, most folks who went the individual j/p and saw/shaper route did so because the initial price point for the 5-in-1 was too high or they already had a table saw. If I was starting from scratch and had the money, I’d do a full combo but I understand the budget concern as well. Where are you located?

Erik
BC Canada..

[Tim Cardinal]

For perspective, one of my first customers had a full combo with 8.5’ slider and 16” jointer/planer in a two-car garage and could still park his minivan in there. I used to travel the country with a 12” combo with 5.5’ slider. All broken down, that thing fit basically onto a 4X6 pallet for transport. I think you have plenty of room.

Erik
I build a garage for my tractor and truck..I keep getting fun projects and really miss having a wood shop and good machines. I just finished all the display cases and cabinets for a new marijuana dispensary and really missed having a proper shop to work in..

[Tim Cardinal]

Add the cost of LTL ocean freight plus managing the import plus duties and then add local delivery to that. LTL ocean freight can be pretty expensive.
So far the shipping is quite reasonable $350 for a full combo machine delivery to a vancouver sea port...I am going to contact a broker on monday to look into other costs.

[Tim Cardinal]

This is the thread Nick is referring to:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?265986-Importing-Combination-Machine-from-China-as-an-Individual-My-Adventure-(So-Far)


(my impression, at the time of reading the thread, was that it seemed like a LOT of work, risk, and future headache to save ~50% off what you could buy a common/popular machine like a Minimax or Hammer for)
Thanks for the link...Good info

[Peter Christensen]

Tim if you go through Alibaba you have their protection if there are any problems with the seller or damage issues. I haven't bought any woodworking machines but am considering getting a tractor from China for my place. I fully grasp the $$$ reasoning and as much as I would like to support locals the middlemen sometimes eat too well. Where in BC are you? I used to live in Aldergrove.

[Tim Cardinal]

This would be my other option, Its a import rebranded in Canada, they also have a jointer plainer..so for the saw, Jointer/planer, 16"bandsaw and dust collector about $15K If i import its 1/2 that. 404803

[Tim Cardinal]

Tim have you looked at Cantek machines ? Ackhurst in Edmonton/Vancouver sell them. Not sure where you are located,I would assume they have an Eastern Canada outlet. Now that I have mentioned them I am not even sure if they have combination machines...
Cantek looks nice but out of my price range..I'm looking a the Canadian woodworker machines imported by CWI. I am in the interior of BC. I think I will go to Vancouver soon and have a look at them.

[Tim Cardinal]

Tim if you go through Alibaba you have their protection if there are any problems with the seller or damage issues. I haven't bought any woodworking machines but am considering getting a tractor from China for my place. I fully grasp the $$$ reasoning and as much as I would like to support locals the middlemen sometimes eat too well. Where in BC are you? I used to live in Aldergrove.
I'm just east of Kamloops..Eagle Bay..Good luck with the tractor. I had a used grey market tractor for a couple years, ran strong, traded it in on a new Kioti.

[Tim Cardinal]

Tim if you go through Alibaba you have their protection if there are any problems with the seller or damage issues. I haven't bought any woodworking machines but am considering getting a tractor from China for my place. I fully grasp the $$$ reasoning and as much as I would like to support locals the middlemen sometimes eat too well. Where in BC are you? I used to live in Aldergrove.
I'm just east of Kamloops, Eagle Bay. Good luck with your tractor, I had a grey market tractor fo a couple years then traded for a new Kioti..I do love my kioti

[andy bessette]

...China is certainly capable of making some excellent machinery...

This is extremely misleading. They might be capable, but we very seldom see any evidence of this here in their machinery. Rather it would be wise to expect just the opposite.

Taiwan's machinery however can generally be relied upon to far exceed the quality of made in China. Nevertheless buying used, quality, US equipment might be a better approach.

[Peter Christensen]

This is extremely misleading. They might be capable, but we very seldom see any evidence of this here in their machinery. Rather it would be wise to expect just the opposite.

Taiwan's machinery however can generally be relied upon to far exceed the quality of made in China. Nevertheless buying used, quality, US equipment might be a better approach.

Andy I have no idea where you live but the Tim lives in Western Canada about 5 or 6 hours from the border. So how does he find good used machines from somewhere in your country, paying the 30% or so exchange to buy them? Then paying to for trucking to Canada and at the border paying taxes on the machine and the trucking plus the brokerage fees. Then it has to journey those 5 or 6 more hours to him. He can fly to China and inspect the machines he wants, supervise the loading into a shipping container, and when they arrive at his place move the tools into the shop and have the container to boot for less that getting the used machines you suggest to his door.

[andy bessette]

...paying the 30% or so exchange...paying to for trucking to Canada...paying taxes...and the trucking plus the brokerage fees. Then it has to journey those 5 or 6 more hours to him...

Peter, you make it sound virtually impossible, which it isn't. Still, I cannot in good conscience recommend that he buy Chinese crap.

[Warren Lake]

ive seen a number of used combos over the years SCM, Felder, Hammer, and others. I have really old SCM combo, its a bit primitive but its solid and built well. Likely heavier than some of the newer machines. There are always used machines for sale. I guess the story is different depending on where you live. Ive had to travel to pick some up different amounts of time but would still do that before importing something like that.

[Bill Dufour]

You can buy a new or used container in China and let someone use it one way to Canada with your machine and their stuff inside. It gets unloaded at their destination then hauled to your place with your machine inside. You get a nice new container for a shed delivered. Total shipping cost is not much more then shipping just the machine and you get a shed with no hurry to unload at your end.
Bill D.

[Tim Cardinal]

This is extremely misleading. They might be capable, but we very seldom see any evidence of this here in their machinery. Rather it would be wise to expect just the opposite.

Taiwan's machinery however can generally be relied upon to far exceed the quality of made in China. Nevertheless buying used, quality, US equipment might be a better approach.
In my shop in minnesota I had old delta, Northfield and Oliver..that was some nice and smooth machinery...the Northfield Jointer was amazing..

[Tim Cardinal]

You can buy a new or used container in China and let someone use it one way to Canada with your machine and their stuff inside. It gets unloaded at their destination then hauled to your place with your machine inside. You get a nice new container for a shed delivered. Total shipping cost is not much more then shipping just the machine and you get a shed with no hurry to unload at your end.
Bill D.
Sound interesting...I'm needing a sea can when the garage becomes the shop..