Knock-Down Hardware for Bed Application

[Jim Becker]

I'm about to receive a deposit on a Twin-XL over Queen "bunk bed" for a client's sea shore vacation home and it will obviously be a knock-down design for transport and the ability to get it into the home environment. Aside from traditional bed-bolts, I'm curious to know what "more contemporary" solutions for this have proven successful with makers for a bed application. This question was honestly spurred by a promotional email from McFeely's about a new knock-down hardware product line they are carrying and I do have an inquiry into the manufacturer to see if it's got the correct type of strength...it's not so much about weight handling as it is about "activity" handling, as it were.

What have you used successfully for this kind of project that provides a clean and strong knock-down connection that also "disappears"?

[John Patric]

Jim, Festool Domino DX700 connectors with mortises above and below the connector on the ends of each rail will be solid and strong. The mortises will have domino tenons glued into the rails and not glued into the corresponding mortises on the posts (legs). The connector will pull it all together in a rigid joint.

[Patrick Kane]

I used the XL connectors on a king bed frame, and they work very well.


Hit post instead of the advance tab before i was finished. The bed is probably 8 months old at this point, and i recently went around every connection to see if the festool connectors loosened over time and needed tigtened. They did not. Dont know if you or a local friend has an XL, but it would be worth borrowing one for the project. Another thing to consider is the client assembling the bed onsite with ikea-esque hardware versus the Festool solution.

[marty fretheim]

I agree with the Domino XL connectors. 6 months later and still solid as can be on my king size bed.

Marty

404628

[Dan Friedrichs]

I've build 2 beds using these:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=50302&cat=41306,41319&ap=1

Although I also supplemented them with dominos (using the dominos to carry the "down" load, and those Lee Valley parts to provide the "pull together" force).

They worked great and I'd recommend them, but I'd probably use the domino connectors, if I were doing it, today.

[Jim Becker]

I do have a Domino 700XL so I'm glad to see that option is on the list.

Dan, I did look at those...thanks for mentioning them.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've built six beds in the past two years. For the most part, I used connector bolts with 1/4-20 threads, and brass threaded inserts. I always leave the bed with an allen wrench set.

[Nick Lazz]

Jim, Festool Domino DX700 connectors with mortises above and below the connector on the ends of each rail will be solid and strong. The mortises will have domino tenons glued into the rails and not glued into the corresponding mortises on the posts (legs). The connector will pull it all together in a rigid joint.

Jim, I just used the connectors on a King size bed and couldn’t be more pleased. I figure they’re about $4 per connection. I used two per rail (one on each end)

[Jim Becker]

Yea, after doing some more reading/research on the Connectors which honestly just slipped my mind, I think that's going to be the way to go for this project and 14mm Dominos are perfect for the particular design of this construction. I wasn't fond of the idea of drilling a deep hole into the side pieces for traditional bed-bolts...which I actually have used in the past for beds I built for my nieces. I appreciate everyone's input here.

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm surprised at how many of you have the Domino XL, which costs $1400.

[Scott Bernstein]

I am not a pro but three years ago I built a queen size bed for our master bedroom and a twin size for one of the kids. The queen is made from hickory and is a platform design (no box spring). The head and foot of the bed connect to the rails with knock-down hardware (wrought iron fully mortised heavy duty bed rail fasteners from Rockler) The rails have a rabbet machined in the inside lip to support 4/4 poplar cross supports for the mattress. Also supporting the poplar supports are two 8/4 oak beams which are in unglued dovetails machined into the header and footer, so those run parallel to the rails. The rails are 8/4 hickory. I used #8 x 4” stainless steel screws in the rails and 1.5” long screws in the legs to attach the hardware. I was wary of screws in end-grain in the rails, but so far no issues at all. This bed is way, way overbuilt and extremely heavy. The twin size bed I built with the same fasteners, but the rails are only 6/4 poplar - also no issues.

https://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-wrought-steel-bed-rail-fasteners-4-pack-select-size?sid=V9146?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla_with_promotion&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh9XX29De4AIVhuDICh2u4grkEAQYASAB EgLQ_PD_BwE

[James Biddle]

I just used the XL connectors as well and they worked perfectly. Keep in mind the minimum material sizes as you design the bed. I bought the whole Systainer full of the connectors, more than I’ll use in a lifetime. Let me know if you’d like some.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I'm surprised at how many of you have the Domino XL, which costs $1400.

I only have the "small" Domino, and now regret not buying the XL. If I did another bed (or anything that would benefit from the Domino connectors), I'd trade up to the Domino XL.

[Jim Barstow]

I've built 8 beds over the years. i tried "bed hardware" on early ones and they all eventually required rework. (The beds were all for active offspring...) I now use stub tenons on the rails that fit into shallow mortices on the posts. Everything is cinched tight with 2 bolts per post. A bed built like this will not rack and not squeak. All were considered "fine furniture" and the bolts were either hidden or unobtrusive.

if you try the bed hardware route, install it and then move the frame, I bet there is enough play to allow a lot of racking. it will only get worse.

[Scott Bernstein]

For what it’s worth....the particular hardware that I used has been rock-solid. Bed frames still feel like one piece. Perhaps due to the thickness and height of the rails, but both bed frames resist all manner of racking forces. Maybe it’ll be different in a couple more years. If so I can rework with the domino XL connectors!

SB

[Jim Becker]

I'm surprised at how many of you have the Domino XL, which costs $1400.
Aside from my Festool sanders and drill/drivers, the Domino-XL is now my most used Festool-tool in recent projects. It's paid for itself very quickly, if not in money, in time and precision.

[Patrick Kane]

I'm surprised at how many of you have the Domino XL, which costs $1400.

Had the 500 for about a year before i found a new in box XL on amazon for $1000. Needless to say, i jumped on it. It arrived with a busted corner of the systainer, but the tool was unused.

The XL is a better tool in just about every quantifiable way. Much like the 2200 is a better router than the 1400 in just about every way. Both tools were released years after their little brothers and include refined design elements. The depth stop is much better on the XL. The registration pins are better than the paddles on the 500. The ergonomics are much better on the XL. Finally, i find the XL to be a much more versatile tool with increased height and depth settings along with the larger tenon options. The 500 is good, but the 700 is considerably better.

[Charles Wiggins]

I'm about to receive a deposit on a Twin-XL over Queen "bunk bed" for a client's sea shore vacation home and it will obviously be a knock-down design for transport and the ability to get it into the home environment. Aside from traditional bed-bolts, I'm curious to know what "more contemporary" solutions for this have proven successful with makers for a bed application. This question was honestly spurred by a promotional email from McFeely's about a new knock-down hardware product line they are carrying and I do have an inquiry into the manufacturer to see if it's got the correct type of strength...it's not so much about weight handling as it is about "activity" handling, as it were.

What have you used successfully for this kind of project that provides a clean and strong knock-down connection that also "disappears"?

It's hard to beat traditional bed rail hooks. Never built with them, but set up and torn down TONS of beds with them, even antiques.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=67916&cat=3,40842,43730&ap=1

http://www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=40078&cat=3,40842,43730&ap=1

https://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-wrought-steel-bed-rail-fasteners-4-pack-select-size

https://www.rockler.com/bed-rail-hooks

[Jim Becker]

Charles, those are absolutely good solutions and I looked at them early on, but my concern with them is that this is a bunk-bed application (TwinXL over Queen) and I think I want something that locks more positively like the Domino Connectors do. I appreciate the suggestion!!!

[Charles Wiggins]

I think I want something that locks more positively like the Domino Connectors do. I appreciate the suggestion!!!

I understand the safety/liability concerns, but if you had disassembled as many bunk beds as I have where you needed a mallet or hammer and scrap block to get the rails loose you wouldn't hesitate to use them.

Anyway - also be sure that the queen bed has support under the center. Lack of proper support will void the warranty on a queen inner spring mattress.

[George Makra]

You could also use cross dowels.

[Jim Becker]

Anyway - also be sure that the queen bed has support under the center. Lack of proper support will void the warranty on a queen inner spring mattress.
Yes, that's already incorporated into the design...and also necessary to support the slats, let alone the mattress.

[Scott Bernstein]

On my queen size bed design I used 3/4" poplar boards extending from one rail to the other. These are supported mid-span by two 8/4 oak beams running from the headboard to the footboard. These beams slide into dovetails I machined into the header and footer - I slightly oversized the dovetails so the oak beams can be easily disassembled. When I first assembled it, the poplar boards ran continously with no space in between. I decided maybe some ventilation would be a good idea, so from about 1" in from each end of each board I routed out about a 1/2" along both edges, such that there is 1" space between them. I can post some pictures on the thread if you like. I didn't really go off any plans, but this construction seemed like it would hold up well. As you can imagine it feels incredibly solid. I don't know exactly how much it weighs, but with a mattress it must be close to 500 pounds.

Scott

[Jim Becker]

That sounds like it worked out nicely, Scott. This build will be pretty stout as it's based on a metal bed design that the client likes from a commercial supplier. I've worked things out so I believe it's going to be very solid when all locked together. Material will be maple with a white finish. The client has opted for a custom fabricated steel safety rail for the top bunk...I have a local welding shop that is doing that sub-contract. I think that the hardest part of this project from a construction standpoint is going to be the darn angled ladder component! LOL

[Ted Calver]

On my queen size bed design I used 3/4" poplar boards extending from one rail to the other. These are supported mid-span by two 8/4 oak beams running from the headboard to the footboard. These beams slide into dovetails I machined into the header and footer - I slightly oversized the dovetails so the oak beams can be easily disassembled. When I first assembled it, the poplar boards ran continously with no space in between. I decided maybe some ventilation would be a good idea, so from about 1" in from each end of each board I routed out about a 1/2" along both edges, such that there is 1" space between them. I can post some pictures on the thread if you like. I didn't really go off any plans, but this construction seemed like it would hold up well. As you can imagine it feels incredibly solid. I don't know exactly how much it weighs, but with a mattress it must be close to 500 pounds. Scott

Sure would like to see some pics of your bed project, Scott. If not here, then perhaps on a separate post. I'm interested in how the oak beams were positioned and what the slat configuration looked like.

[Scott Bernstein]

Sure would like to see some pics of your bed project, Scott. If not here, then perhaps on a separate post. I'm interested in how the oak beams were positioned and what the slat configuration looked like.

Here are some pictures. I cut four dovetails into the head and foot of the bed, but only ended up using two. The bed is Hickory.

The two nightstands are also made from Hickory. The boxes are mitered with biscuits to help alignment and a little strength. The legs are joined to the base with Festool Dominoes.

[Jim Becker]

That's really nice and clean, Scott! Beautiful bed.

----

I have opted for the Festool connectors and it makes sense given most of the other joinery will also be using Dominos. The deposit for the commission came in, so orders are info materials. I also found an online version of a Domino manual that clearly shows the proper setups for the connectors I'm using so as soon as they arrive, I'll be "practicing". :)

[Jerry Wright]

The connectors that are 1st on Charles Wiggins's post are bbc amazing. Noticed to the proper depth in head board or footboard and side rails, they are rock solid. I have built several beds with me and you have to use a rubber mallet to assemble and disassemble. One of the beds is a twin over trundle and had 20 yrs of kids jumping on it and still rock solid.

[Ted Calver]

Here are some pictures. I cut four dovetails into the head and foot of the bed, but only ended up using two. The bed is Hickory.
The two nightstands are also made from Hickory. The boxes are mitered with biscuits to help alignment and a little strength. The legs are joined to the base with Festool Dominoes.

Scott, Thank you for the pictures. I've been looking at ways to avoid the center leg and it looks like your oak beam made that possible.

[Scott Bernstein]

Scott, Thank you for the pictures. I've been looking at ways to avoid the center leg and it looks like your oak beam made that possible.

I hated the idea of the 5th leg. Even though you can't really see a fifth leg under the bed I really wanted this design to have a very clean overall appearance. It's a Scandanavian-inspired design, so I wanted a look of simplicity and durability - and I would know the fifth leg was there... I think a single Oak Beam for this Queen size bed would have been sufficient for mid-span support but it feels awfully solid with two. I believe one could build a ramp and drive a car on top of this thing.

[Mike Ontko]

Used this hidden Bed Rail Connection System from Rockler (https://www.rockler.com/bed-rail-connection-system) for the twin over full bunk beds (https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=872) I built a couple of years ago. What really made this approach work, strength-wise, is that I used a double-tenon on each of end the rails and put the bolt hole directly in between the tenons and mortises (pictured below).

My more recent barnwood/pallet wood bed (https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=902) used these Heavy Duty Wrought Steel Bed Rail Fasteners from Rockler (https://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-wrought-steel-bed-rail-fasteners-4-pack-select-size) that I would also recommend.

https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=343963&d=1473685099

https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=341773&d=1470062207