I bought some Arkansas stones, now what?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

All of this started when I decided that I wanted to sharpen up a bunch of old pocket knives and then I intend to try them out to see how well I can whittle with them.

I have occasionally left a mark if I run a blade with the sharp edge forward on a sharpening stone; not always, but, sometimes. So I thought that I would give some Arkansas stones a try; never had or used an Arkansas stone before.

I will try to ease my way into it since I have a setup that works great for me with water stones (and similar), I just wanted to try it.

My primary question is...... Should I attempt flatten or measure these for flatness, or just jump in? I am hoping that I should be able to just use these.

I opted for three stones that are sized 10x3

https://www.bestsharpeningstones.com/product_details.php?category_name=Arkansas%20Sharp ening%20Stones&product_id=77

Soft - Coarse 600
Hard - Medium 1000
Black Surgical - Extra Fine 2500


After I placed my order, I saw that some people had had trouble with them delivering, but mine came very fast and were very well packaged.

I have honing oil (mineral oil I assume), and I also have a large container of mineral oil that I have been using to season cutting boards and also for use with some oil stones that I own.

I also have a small set ordered that is easy to carry around in case I want to have something for a pocket knife. Although I am not sure how much luck I will have sharpening small pocket knives. I do not have a good track record with that. I have some cheap knives that I can try to learn on since I have not had really good luck when I last tried to sharpen a knife on a flat stone.

I have had really good luck with the original Work Sharp Knife & Tool Sharpener (I think that they have newer models, not sure how they differ), but, it works really well with me. I have also had really good luck in the past sharpeners that have sharpening sticks in a V pattern such as this one from Spyderco that I have owned for years and LOVE:

https://www.amazon.com/Tri-Angle-Sharpening-Kit-Medium-Fine/dp/B00JHX512S

I will eventually post comments on knives from Case (USA), Buck (USA and Chinese), Henry (Chinese), Rough Rider (Chinese), and FlexCut (USA).

New, the worst was from Case, with a Stockman's that I bought new. I had to use a course sharpening stone to remove that burr.

404465


Untouched, the flexcut was the best out of the box. I was very impressed with the cheap Chinese Rough Rider knives and the Buck knives. The USA Buck knives that I obtained new were sharper than their Chinese counterparts.

The Shrade knives I really have to sharpen before use and they took more work to get in shape on average (full sharpen job) than the Case knives (most I could go straight to the Spyderco) even if the worst example from the bunch was a Case knife that is an embarrassment. I contacted Case to ask them about this knife and they did not respond.

I am amazed at the FlexCut; like wow!

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That's a good set- 10x3 is a great size for tool sharpening. I love my Arkansas stones. I will suggest something that I thought was crazy until I tried it- instead of oil, use Dawn (or similar) dishwashing liquid. It doesn't make an oily mess, and it works wonderful on oil stones.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

That's a good set- 10x3 is a great size for tool sharpening. I love my Arkansas stones. I will suggest something that I thought was crazy until I tried it- instead of oil, use Dawn (or similar) dishwashing liquid. It doesn't make an oily mess, and it works wonderful on oil stones.

Wait, what? You mean directly? or after adding it to some water?

I wanted something large enough that I could sharpen any blade. I found out shortly after I ordered that some people work the blades sidways while doing some kind of hip swinging dance. I think that Jessica de Boer does the side to side thing (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272199-Chisel-sharpening-difficulties&p=2902355#post2902355)

[Mel Fulks]

Since you mention that some of the work was slow, I think you need a coarser stone,too

[Warren Mickley]

A soft Arkansas stone is not equivalent to a 600 grit water stone. For my own work I use an 800 grit King stone followed by a Washita stone, then a soft Arkansas stone. To go from 800 to soft Arkansas would be a big jump.

[Mike Lemon]

Just jump in. The stones probably won't need flattening again in your lifetime unless you do a ton of sharpening. Just be sure to use the whole thing and not one little spot.

[Gary Ragatz]

A soft Arkansas stone is not equivalent to a 600 grit water stone. For my own work I use an 800 grit King stone followed by a Washita stone, then a soft Arkansas stone. To go from 800 to soft Arkansas would be a big jump.

I'm pretty new to this, and have no experience with water stones, so I'm just going by what the supplier of my oil stone set (sharpeningsupplies.com) says. They say Washita is the coarsest of the Arkansas stones, and put their Soft Arkansas at 600-800 grit and Hard Arkansas at 800-1000 grit.

[Warren Mickley]

I'm pretty new to this, and have no experience with water stones, so I'm just going by what the supplier of my oil stone set (sharpeningsupplies.com) says. They say Washita is the coarsest of the Arkansas stones, and put their Soft Arkansas at 600-800 grit and Hard Arkansas at 800-1000 grit.

If you expect a soft Arkansas stone to remove steel as well as an 800 grit stone you will be quite disappointed. Likewise if you expect an 800 grit stone to polish steel as well as a soft Arkansas, you will be disappointed also. They are pretty far apart.

[Charles Guest]

Mind the ends and the corners and the middle will take care of itself.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Not a guru Andrew, but have been using an India/hard Arkansas/Black Arkansas combination (from Dan’s Whetstones) since moving to the new house.

I am pleased with the edges, and I think I am done in about the time it used to take me to pull out the waterstones and get them ready.

[Mel Fulks]

The Washita stones are no longer being mined, they can be as coarse as 350. The old used ones can be found ,prices
vary wildly ...like a lot of used stuff.

[ken hatch]

Wait, what? You mean directly? or after adding it to some water?

I wanted something large enough that I could sharpen any blade. I found out shortly after I ordered that some people work the blades sidways while doing some kind of hip swinging dance. I think that Jessica de Boer does the side to side thing (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272199-Chisel-sharpening-difficulties&p=2902355#post2902355)

Andrew,

I can't do any hip swinging :pbut a two inch wide stone is all that is needed, if fact some prefer a two inch wide stone to wider stones. I do not know if Best stones come flat but most Arkansas oil stones do but they can very slowly go out of true with improper technique and their speed can be helped by an occasional flatting with a diamond stone. Almost anything will work to float the swarf off the stone, I like a mixture of Neatsfoot oil and coal oil but that is just me. Just don't use 'em dry.

ken

[Robert Hazelwood]

If you just want to use these for sharpening knives then flatness is not extremely important- chips or divots would be a bigger concern (anything that could catch the edge). If you want to use them for tools then I'd give them a check, though they are usually pretty good. They are not the easiest things to flatten but they will stay flat very long.

Like Warren says, the "grit" rating for oilstones is nearly useless. Also I think they are using an American grit scale, the one used for sandpaper, and not the Japanese scale. They might be in the ballpark when the stones are brand new, but as they wear in they become much finer. They are a solid chunk of rock, and they all have the same size of particle. The inherent coarseness of each stone is basically determined by how porous it is - the stones are graded by density (black is denser than hard which is more dense than soft, etc.), denser stones having fewer pores and a finer cut.

Whereas a man-made waterstone's grit is determined by the size of grit they put into the binder and stays consistent for the life of the stone, an Arkansas stone's "grit" is determined by a combination of the density and condition of the surface. Roughly speaking the density sets a top end value on how fine the stone can be when the surface is worn very smooth. But even a very dense stone like the Black can be made to cut coarsely if the surface is roughened and exposes fresh sharp particles. You may even be disappointed with the Black stone at first, thinking its not very fine, but give it time and it will settle down. Eventually it will deliver a very fine polish.

On the other hand, the soft ark may cut very fast at first and then slow down as it wears. You can re-condition the surface with sandpaper or diamond plates to restore some aggressiveness. A few seconds with a diamond plate is all that should be needed. I would never do this to the fine stones, you will re-start the wear-in process. You may not find a need to do this, but I wanted to explain how that works.

All that said, while Arkansas stones excel at removing scratches from coarser stones and polishing, they are not great at bulk metal removal like when you need to change the bevel angle on a knife due to a bad factory grind. So it's worth having something coarser. A fine India is a good choice for quickly raising a burr on something that's not too far gone (does what a 1000 grit waterstone does for a a waterstone user) and the soft ark follows it nicely. It's hard and stays flat, and is inexpensive. For coarser work, a Crystolon stone is the fastest cutting stone I have used. It's an oilstone that behaves like a waterstone, shedding grit to keep the cutting speed high, so it's also messy and does not stay flat. Good for bevels, not for backs of chisels/irons. Sandpaper is also a very good option for heavy work.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I also encourage you to freehand sharpen the knives. One tip I have is to buy a Mora knife in carbon steel, they go for $10 or so. The reason is because aside from being very useful knives with good steel, they have what is known as a "Scandi" grind which means there is only one wide bevel per side. The bevels are wide enough that they will register on the stone and you won't have to guess if you're at the right angle. So they are good to learn sharpening with, and getting the feel of how to navigate the belly of the knife as you work it on the stone. Also they take forever to sharpen with the bevels being so wide, but that's a feature and not a bug for someone learning and trying to build muscle memory.

I think if you can get good at sharpening a Mora then you'll be able to do a typical knife without much trouble, since you'll have the feel of it down.

[Robert Engel]

I also have used dish detergent. Works well. Once you've used oil, doesn't work as well.

I don't think mineral oil makes the best honing oil. I prefer to use either a honing oil or kerosene (lamp oil).

I think you will probably want to look at some coarser stones, too.

I've tried them all I prefer water stones because they hone faster in my hands.

I pretty much use the oil stones for carving tools only.

[Jim Koepke]

I also have used dish detergent. Works well. Once you've used oil, doesn't work as well.

I don't think mineral oil makes the best honing oil. I prefer to use either a honing oil or kerosene (lamp oil).

I think you will probably want to look at some coarser stones, too.

I've tried them all I prefer water stones because they hone faster in my hands.

I pretty much use the oil stones for carving tools only.

The purpose of using liquid on stones is to keep the abraded particles (swarf) afloat so as to not become imbedded into the stones surface.

An Arkansas stone can be used with almost any liquid able to keep the swarf suspended as long as the liquid doesn't dry or become the cause of clogging the stone's surface.

During the winter months when it is too cold in my shop to keep water in a liquid state, oilstones are used exclusively. For speedy metal removal sandpaper or water stones are my first choices.

For my carving tools oilstones are essential. It is too easy to put a rut in a water stone with a carving gouge. It is convenient to have slipstones in both water and oilstone varieties.

jtk

[Tom M King]

My first experience with Arkansas stones was when I was in Cub Scouts. I had started whittling neckerchief slides, using the round BSA stone to sharpen the knife with. My Dad had drilled some holes in blocks of wood to use, and I remember complaining that it would be easier if the knife was sharper. One day my Dad showed up with a small, rectangular, white Hard Arkansas stone, and it changed things completely. I remember cutting my finger with it once, the scar is still barely there, and almost passing out. I had to go lay in the bed for a while. That was probably a good lesson, because it never happened again, and even after 45 years as a pro, I still have ten fingers.

The stones in the picture with four, came from Smith's soon after the issue of Whole Earth Catalog came out with their contact info in it. I remember laying in the floor, and writing a letter to them, asking to send me a set COD. I think it was 1973, but may have been earlier. A few weeks later, they showed up. The two in the middle are cracked because a tornado hit my shop in 1988, and a whole wall of stuff was thrown into the yard. The other part of the Soft stone never was found, and that's when the boxes were damaged too.

If the variegated, purplish stone to the left, what Smiths sold as a Washita, was still availble, I probably never would have gone to water stones. It's a great stone, but that one is worn so thin to be almost unusable now.

The Black stone always did an amazing job, and the last time I cleaned them, I noticed that it's really a Translucent.

Some time later, and before the family owned mine sold out, I bought the larger set of 10 x 3 stones. That Black never was as good as the old one from Smiths'.

To sharpen knives, I always did it like I was taught when I was little. Move the knife on the stone like you are trying to slice a piece of the stone off. When it feels like you are cutting down into the stone's surface, which of course you really aren't, that stone has done what it's going to do. That feeling has carried over to my sharpening of chisels, and plane irons, and I never bother to feel for a wire edge, or test the edge once done. That includes going from one stone to the next.

I carried the little pocket knife in my pocket, into my adulthood, but stopped after carrying the second person, who asked to borrow my knife, to the hospital to get stitches. The knife was a little Solingen. People never seem to understand, even when you warn them to be careful because the knife is sharp.

The oilstones still get the call if I'm working somewhere without running water, or if it's too cold. Any other time, I'll use my waterstone setup because it's many times faster. If that Washita was available again, it would close the gap a lot, but I haven't been able to find another one.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I think that I need to read this entire post once a day for the next week as I try to digest all of this good information. Kind of like trying to drink from the fire hose. Even some of the little things like trying to shave off part of the stone; I have always been afraid of trying that with a water stone.

I have plenty of coarse things, and I opted for the stones because my daughter (age 13) asked about whittling. So when I say knife, I mean either a carving knife or a pocket knife that has a blade suitable for carving.

[Tom M King]

I don't know that I would do that with a water stone either. I can't remember ever sharpening a knife with a water stone, but the learned feel on oil stones has carried over to woodworking edges on water stones.

The knife I carved with, and later carried in my pocket was a small one with three blades. It was one my Uncle brought back from Germany after WWII. He, and my Aunt never had children, and lived close to where I grew up, so it was kind of like having two sets of Parents. He always enjoyed helping me when I was interested in doing something. I think most of the makers of pocket knives still make that kind of knife. I've bought a few off of ebay for not a great deal of money.

edited to add: copy and paste this into the search window on ebay. There are several companies that make a model like that.

VINTAGE BOKER TREE BRAND CLASSIC 3 BLADE POCKET KNIFE # 83881 SOLINGEN GERMANY

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Wait, what? You mean directly? or after adding it to some water?

I wanted something large enough that I could sharpen any blade. I found out shortly after I ordered that some people work the blades sidways while doing some kind of hip swinging dance. I think that Jessica de Boer does the side to side thing (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272199-Chisel-sharpening-difficulties&p=2902355#post2902355)

Soap and water. Enough soap that it’s slippery. It works just like oil without the mess.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

One tip I have is to buy a Mora knife in carbon steel, they go for $10 or so. The reason is because aside from being very useful knives with good steel, they have what is known as a "Scandi" grind which means there is only one wide bevel per side. The bevels are wide enough that they will register on the stone and you won't have to guess if you're at the right angle. So they are good to learn sharpening with, and getting the feel of how to navigate the belly of the knife as you work it on the stone. Also they take forever to sharpen with the bevels being so wide, but that's a feature and not a bug for someone learning and trying to build muscle memory.

I just ordered one.