neophyte questions about hot hide glue

[Günter VögelBerg]

(I posted this in the general forum and it was suggested I post it here. I could not find a way to delete the other post, so perhaps a moderator will want to do that.)

I am getting ready to try hot hide glue for the first time. I have purchased a glue pot and ordered the two glues Lee Valley sells--one in 150 gram strength and one in 260 gram strength. I understand the concept of gram strength, but my questions are this:

Lee valley recommends the 150 for veneer, however 192 seems to be the industry standard for veneer and is the recommendation in literally every woodworking book I have. Is the 150 suitable?

Can I mix glues of different gram strengths to split the difference?

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I don’t know the answer. I would just do a test using the glue the way LV recommends and see if I liked how it works.

You could also call LV and ask. They have pretty good customer service.

[Bob Leistner]

I honestly doubt anyone knew or cared about gram strength in the 18th century. They most likely made the glue the way they were trained to and used it. I think all the debate and agonizing about it was left for 21st century foolishness.

[Andrew Seemann]

Gram strength has more to do with tackiness and open time than how strong the hide glue is, with lower having more open time and being less tacky (easier to work with in general). All the different grams strengths should be plenty strong, with the possible exception of some parts of instrument making where string tension causes a lot of shear force.

Hide glue is basically non-food grade unflavored jello. It takes a while to get use to using it. Do a lot of practice work with it before you try it on your actual project. It has a lot of advantages, and it has a lot of disadvantages. If you are using it for joinery, do several practice joints and try to break them apart after 24 hours (the standard cure time). It is easy to get "cold joints" where the glue cools before it has a chance to do fully bond.

Franklin makes a liquid hide glue that has many but not all of the advantages and disadvantages of hot hide glue. It is pretty much hide glue with a lot of something like urea that lets it work cold. It does have a limited shelf life though, so make sure it is fresh if you use it. It isn't bad for joinery, or where you need a really long open time for assembly. I presume it would be a gadawful mess for veneer though.

[Günter VögelBerg]

Thanks for the input. I am only really interested in using it for veneer, but will probably try it for joinery at some point.

[Andrew Seemann]

I think you can mix the gram strengths to get the tackiness you want, same with fiddling with water content, etc. I do remember that you have to be careful about not overheating the glue though or it messes it up. I snagged one of those Hold Heet glue pots for cheap, so I lucked out there.

Congratulations on trying hide glue veneering. I've always been too chicken to try it:)

[Charles Guest]

Read here:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HIDEGL.XX

https://bjornhideglue.com/

[bill epstein]

I've been using it so many years I forget where the tip came from but all drip coffee makers are mandated by Auntie Sammantha to keep the coffee hot at 150 degrees F., the perfect heat for hide glue.

A $15 Sunbeam has been my friend for decades as is the Behlen ground Hide Glue. Back of the can: "Add equal parts by weight of water and glue, melt to 146 degrees F ". That's it.

Gram what? Grind up your Facebook Page, melt that and see what sticks!

Works best in colder, 60-ish rooms because it grips as it cools. Coat both sides of the leaf so your hammer glides over it, then use a hand scraper to remove the dried excess. You can practice by heating and re-heating over and over and still have glue left in the pot.

[Bob Leistner]

Dollar stores have coffee makers for $5.99. I have one in my shop that has been making coffee for years.Same name brands and models as other stores have for $ 15.95-29.95.

[Doug Dawson]

Dollar stores have coffee makers for $5.99. I have one in my shop that has been making coffee for years.Same name brands and models as other stores have for $ 15.95-29.95.

I don't know that I would trust discount store (or any other) coffee makers to keep my precious liquids at the right temperature for more than 20 minutes tops. Even then, I think that only applies if you create your glue in the drip process (without the filter in place, of course.) :^)

A better alternative might be a small slow cooker with a removable cooking vessel, they're not much more expensive than the above. You can set the temperature directly (check its accuracy.) That is, if you're not willing to spend the money on something like https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TK/item/MS-GLUEPOT.XX which is prettier (albeit not as flexible.)

[Günter VögelBerg]

Thank you for the input. My glue will be here Tuesday and I will start experimenting.

Sadly, I just threw in the garbage a coffee maker because of a broken glass pot. I did not think about using it for shop[ purposes.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Read here:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HIDEGL.XX

https://bjornhideglue.com/

I appreciated your references. Thanks for post them.