Buying new Li-Ion tools - which ones?

[Brian W Evans]

I read the recent post about modern Li-Ion tools, but am looking for some specific recommendations.

I have some Dewalt 18v tools from 20+ years ago. I am very pleased with their performance and durability, but they are huge and heavy compared with more recent tools and I am reluctant to spend more money on batteries given the age of the tools. My last two batteries are on their last legs, so I think I will sell my tools now and upgrade rather than buy more batteries.

I am aware that I can buy a 20v conversion kit for my tools but, as I said, the tools are old. The price difference between the conversion kit and a new Dewalt 20v Max XR brushless drill & impact driver kit with two batteries is less than $100, so this seems like a reasonable thing to do.

I am not a pro, but I take on large-ish home improvement projects like building sheds and raised garden beds, working with landscaping timbers, building decks and stairs, etc.

I need a cordless drill, impact driver, and recip saw. I might add a cordless angle grinder and circ saw to my new set.

Especially in the winter, I can go a month or more without using my tools. At other times I use them for hours every day for weeks.

Since I'm starting over I don't mind changing brands, but I'm not necessarily looking to do so. I am most interested in longevity of tools and batteries. I don't need anything beyond basic features, and I don't need a huge selection of compatible tools, or extreme power.

What are your recommendations or experiences?

Thanks.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I like Makita, Milwaukee and Dewalt. You should go to Home Depot and get your hands on the actual tools you need to see how they feel in your hands. That's one of the most important things to me (aside from overall quality, which is roughly equivalent among these 3 brands)

[Dan Friedrichs]

I think you'd have a hard time finding any significant difference between the ilks of Makita, Milwaukee, Dewalt, etc. (I assume you're looking at that price point, versus Festool or Ryobi).

As Phillip said, maybe try holding them and seeing if anything jumps out at you. Otherwise, maybe make a quick spreadsheet comparing the cost of the total packages that you're looking for.

Although this looks like everything you want (minus a few spare batteries): https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XT612M

[David Bassett]

... I am not a pro, but I take on large-ish home improvement projects like building sheds and raised garden beds, working with landscaping timbers, building decks and stairs, etc. ....

From the prior discussion DeWalt sounds like it is the current favorite among Pros doing those shorts of tasks.

But, +1 on the go handle them to see how they feel to you advice.

E.g. I was recently looking for a very compact driver and had pretty decided on Milwaukee 12V based on reviews. Once I handled it, I agree it is very solid and well build and can see how it achieves almost 18V performance. Problem, for me, was that it wasn't really that much more compact. I ended up going Bosch, despite it being whimpy in reviews and having a very fat handle, because *my* primary goal was compactness and it was noticeably smaller. (BTW- the Makita compact 18V was about the same size as the Milwaukee 12V drivers.)

[Mike Henderson]

I went DeWalt 20 volt tools and have been very satisfied. No experience with Makita or Milwaukee.

Mike

[Paul F Franklin]

I do a lot of construction and home improvement work in addition to woodworking. I've owned and heavily used Makita, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, Bosch and Dewalt. IMO, dewalt 20 volt XR brushless tools are really hard to beat in terms of performance, features, design, reliability and especially price/performance ratio. They probably are not #1 in all those areas on every tool, but across the line I think they are in the top two and given the advantages of buying within the same brand and battery series, these days I will only buy something else if Dewalt just doesn't make it. I bought the first few tools as full kits which got me 3 chargers and at least 6 batteries, and now I buy bare tools. If I had to do it over, I'd buy one of the 4 or 5 tool kits to start and add as needed. Their cordless multitool is amazing and runs rings around the corded Fein that I also own. I've not had one of the XR batteries die on me yet. The ones not in use just sit in the chargers, sometimes for weeks with no ill effect.

The one exception I would make is the Bosch flexiclick compact driver. I love how it fits in small places and the offset and right angle heads make it usable in many situations where other tools just can't go.

There is one disadvantage to LION technology and that is the batteries lose capacity rapidly when they get cold, like freezing cold. When I work outside in the winter, I have to keep the batteries warm or they poop out quickly. Using the tool steadily keeps the battery warm though.

One last point. I know a few pros who swear by rigid cordless tools, mostly because the tools are decent and the battery warranty is excellent.

[Greg R Bradley]

I'm not very loyal to any brand and have some of most of them in various business uses and personal. It is getting difficult to go very wrong with any of them. There are certain brands that have a bunch of tools in certain specialties. For example, Makita has a bunch of yard/landscape tools like chainsaws that others don't have. Milwaukee has a bunch of plumbers tools that other don't. If none of that is important to you, most of them will be fine.
I've found Ridgid lifetime warranty to be basically a scam in actual business use but it seems to be fine for personal use. Personally, I prefer a good battery to a crappy one with a good warranty that makes you jump through hoops and spend a bunch of time getting replaced for free, but that is a judgement call.
Do you have any specific requirements?

[johnny means]

I switched to Dewalt from Rigid a few years back. My tools get used daily and I hands been very happy with them. The one thing that bothers me is that Dewalt doesn't have a right angle impact driver in their line up. In my line of work I never know what I'll be dealing with and a right angle impact is a life saver in tight spaces. I was also happy with my Rigid tools and beat on them for years with no problems. I only decided to switch because I saw how Dewalt supported their tool lines forever.

[Jeff Body]

I'll chime in with Porter Cable. I've been adding to my collection for some time now. My latest purchases was a 1/2" impact for the car lug nuts and suspension parts and a battery wet/dry vacuum. Both work incredible. I've got a good mix of 2ah, 4ah, and a 5ah battery. I have a mix of OEM and 3rd party batteries and haven't noticed a difference.
Current collection includes;
Drill
impact driver
Reciprocating saw
circular saw
1/2" impact
wet/dry vac
flash light
DA sander

Next purchases will be a jigsaw.
Best advice I can give is to plan for the future. Go with a brand that has all the tool you're going to want as you add to your collection. The greatest part is all of mine share the same battery and charger. I ALWAYS have a battery on the charger ready to swap out.

[Brian W Evans]

I like Makita, Milwaukee and Dewalt. You should go to Home Depot and get your hands on the actual tools you need to see how they feel in your hands. That's one of the most important things to me (aside from overall quality, which is roughly equivalent among these 3 brands)

Phillip,

Good advice. I will definitely do this. I checked out the Makitas last night and liked how they felt. I'm a little wary of Makita since so many people in the other thread said they had problems with the batteries. In googling around, I see that Makita added a 3 year warranty to their batteries in 2015, so maybe the problem has been fixed...

[Brian W Evans]

I think you'd have a hard time finding any significant difference between the ilks of Makita, Milwaukee, Dewalt, etc. (I assume you're looking at that price point, versus Festool or Ryobi).

As Phillip said, maybe try holding them and seeing if anything jumps out at you. Otherwise, maybe make a quick spreadsheet comparing the cost of the total packages that you're looking for.

Although this looks like everything you want (minus a few spare batteries): https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XT612M

Dan,

Thanks for the link. That set has everything I want and nothing I don't.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Ive been using mainly Makita (and others) for many years working as a timber framer, carpenter and woodworker and the batteries are better now than they were 5 years ago. I bought the top of the line 3 speed, brushless Makita impact driver with a pair of 3 amp hr batteries about 6 years ago that has seen continuous use and the batteries are amazingly still going, though the freezing cold does drain quickly at this point. I have since bought newer batteries (2.0 and 5.0 amp hr both with the red battery indicator lights and they’ve been great.) The newer 5.0 are the same size and weight as my not-so-old 3.0

Im partial to the feel of Makita personally, but I’ve used Milwaukee and Dewalt 20V enough to know that they are all comparable in terms of power and performance and it comes down to small details and personal preference.

For woodworking / shop use / lighter duty carpentry I’m a huge fan of the Makita sub-compact, brushless 18V impact driver and 1/2” drill. They are black and basically in between regular 18v and 12v in size and feel, but have 90% of the performance of the regular 18v line.

3 year warranty on all Li-Ion tools is nice and I’ve used it once or twice on a 1/2” drill, don’t know how that compares to other brands.




Phillip,

Good advice. I will definitely do this. I checked out the Makitas last night and liked how they felt. I'm a little wary of Makita since so many people in the other thread said they had problems with the batteries. In googling around, I see that Makita added a 3 year warranty to their batteries in 2015, so maybe the problem has been fixed...

[Peter Kuhlman]

I have about 10 batteries for my Makita stuff and only recently had one start to go bad. That was one from when Makita first came out with the 18 volt LXT series many years ago. I think the entire battery issue is a non issue based upon my experience and of other people I know.

What I look for is a company that doesn’t keep replacing their series of battery tools with “upgraded” new designs that are not backward compatible. All of my Makita tools can use batteries from years ago or current. They did add a tiny plastic bump to prevent certain low amp batteries from being used with higher amp draw tools but that is easy to fix with a knife.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I have used Makita for years in the same manner the OP stated. Love their yard tools also. If I were starting over I would look for tools that feel good in hand. Have battery life indicator, lights that stay on w/o tool running, and are ergonomically designed.

[Greg R Bradley]

I have used Makita for years in the same manner the OP stated. Love their yard tools also. If I were starting over I would look for tools that feel good in hand. Have battery life indicator, lights that stay on w/o tool running, and are ergonomically designed.
I was always amazed to hear about issues with Makita batteries. With Makita being the most heavily counterfeited, i think that is the source of the problem. I've seen a lot of people using Makita where I can see the batteries are counterfeit. The tools, kits, or batteries bought on ebay, CL sellers selling "new" stuff, etc.
I have about 20 Makita 18v batteries personally and we have most of 100 in use in business and the failure rate has been very low. We must have 30 Makita Fans that mostly run 1-3 batteries to exhaustion every day in the summer and in SoCal summer means 200 days a year. Tried some of the new Milwaukee fans due to the 9ah and now 12ah batteries and have had some failures way too early on a $250 battery.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Personally I prefer Makita battery tools for their quality and broad options of different tools working with same 18V batteries... but I had to go with DeWalt as they have better availability and service in my country.

DeWalt surprised me with the quality of their brushless tools and I decided am happier when they decided to release 60V tools... but maintaining the battery compatibility with their "old" 20V system.

BTW DeWalt 20V system doesn't look different from their competition in 18V... 20V is only the open circuit voltage when battery is just loaded... like their competition... but 60V is really a tech difference.

I recommend DeWalt 60/20V system.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm switching over from DeWalt to Makita - only because I fell in love with my cordless Makita track saw - and I prefer to not have to mess around with a mix/mess of batteries and chargers.



In googling around, I see that Makita added a 3 year warranty to their batteries in 2015, so maybe the problem has been fixed... I believe Makita revamped their batteries a few years back. The newer ("yellow tab") ones have vastly improved electronics & are far more dependable. It's important to note the time frame involved when people complain about Makita batteries.

[Roger Feeley]

I use my dewalt 20vmax every day. I also use Ryobi One for outdoor stuff. My needs there are modest so their cordless string trimmer, leaf blower and pole saw fit my needs. I’m down to just one internal combustion engine other than the car. I have a John Deere tractor with snow blower attachment. Everything else is battery.

[Brian W Evans]

Update: I thought about it for quite a while, did some research, put my hands on some tools, and ended up with some really nice Makita tools. I switched to Makita because I am very impressed with their track saw and the 12" SCMS I used to own. The reviews were excellent everywhere I looked, too. Nothing against Dewalt - my Dewalt tools have served me very well - I just felt that Makita had the edge on quality this time around.

I splurged on brushless for everything: drill/driver, impact driver, and recip saw. The recip saw is one of their 36v (two batteries) tools because one of the things I hated about my old Dewalt recip saw is that it was so underpowered compared to the plug-in version. The Makita 36v is NOT underpowered.

Makita had (has?) a promotion this month where they were giving away two free 5Ah batteries with certain 36v tools, so I now have 6 batteries and two chargers (three bays total). The Makita chargers are hefty pieces of equipment compared with my old Dewalt chargers. They have fans and provide more information about battery status. They also seem more solidly built. They have a significantly bigger footprint, however.

All of these tools are heavy, which I don't mind since I mostly use them for construction/renovation and prefer more power. Even so, I was able to get quite slow speeds out of both the drill and the impact driver by squeezing the triggers lightly. The fit, finish, and overall feel are excellent. They obviously have plastic bodies but they feel more solid than my old Dewalts. I should say that, although I bought these from HD, I had to order them online since the models I wanted are not carried in any of the stores near me. I spent a lot of time on Makita's web site comparing specs and knew exactly which models I wanted when I ordered. The models I looked at in the store seemed more consumer-oriented and lighter.

On a related note, I also got rid of my Dewalt sidewinder circular saw and purchased a Makita magnesium hypoid circular saw, which has a worm-drive form. It is considerably heavier than the Dewalt but I REALLY like this style of saw much better; it feels more like an extension of my arm and less like a tool I am pushing. It is also more powerful - I cut a pallet into firewood yesterday in what had to be a minute flat.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Good choice!
LOL!

Seriously though, since February when this thread started until today, I've been using the heck out of my Makita cordless stuff.
(I even sprang for a Makita cordless string trimmer!)
I even found a ton of use for the 18 V cordless circular saw that came in the three tool kit.

I've found a couple things - none of the Makita brushless tools - 18 V or 36 V lack anything in the way of power. I even go so far as o say they surpass a corded tool.

[David Buchhauser]

I read the recent post about modern Li-Ion tools, but am looking for some specific recommendations.

I have some Dewalt 18v tools from 20+ years ago. I am very pleased with their performance and durability, but they are huge and heavy compared with more recent tools and I am reluctant to spend more money on batteries given the age of the tools. My last two batteries are on their last legs, so I think I will sell my tools now and upgrade rather than buy more batteries.

I am aware that I can buy a 20v conversion kit for my tools but, as I said, the tools are old. The price difference between the conversion kit and a new Dewalt 20v Max XR brushless drill & impact driver kit with two batteries is less than $100, so this seems like a reasonable thing to do.

I am not a pro, but I take on large-ish home improvement projects like building sheds and raised garden beds, working with landscaping timbers, building decks and stairs, etc.

I need a cordless drill, impact driver, and recip saw. I might add a cordless angle grinder and circ saw to my new set.

Especially in the winter, I can go a month or more without using my tools. At other times I use them for hours every day for weeks.

Since I'm starting over I don't mind changing brands, but I'm not necessarily looking to do so. I am most interested in longevity of tools and batteries. I don't need anything beyond basic features, and I don't need a huge selection of compatible tools, or extreme power.

What are your recommendations or experiences?

Thanks.

Hi Brian,
I think they are all pretty good. I have quite a few of the Milwaukee 18v and about the same number of Ryobi. I have been buying the Milwaukee for may years - I still have some of their 14.4V drills that still work great. I like the Ryobi drills for their light weight. The Milwaukee drills are heavier, but pack more power. I suppose that it depends on the price. The Milwaukee or probably the most expensive, but in my opinion offer the best quality and appearance.
David

[David Buchhauser]

Update: I thought about it for quite a while, did some research, put my hands on some tools, and ended up with some really nice Makita tools. I switched to Makita because I am very impressed with their track saw and the 12" SCMS I used to own. The reviews were excellent everywhere I looked, too. Nothing against Dewalt - my Dewalt tools have served me very well - I just felt that Makita had the edge on quality this time around.

I splurged on brushless for everything: drill/driver, impact driver, and recip saw. The recip saw is one of their 36v (two batteries) tools because one of the things I hated about my old Dewalt recip saw is that it was so underpowered compared to the plug-in version. The Makita 36v is NOT underpowered.

Makita had (has?) a promotion this month where they were giving away two free 5Ah batteries with certain 36v tools, so I now have 6 batteries and two chargers (three bays total). The Makita chargers are hefty pieces of equipment compared with my old Dewalt chargers. They have fans and provide more information about battery status. They also seem more solidly built. They have a significantly bigger footprint, however.

All of these tools are heavy, which I don't mind since I mostly use them for construction/renovation and prefer more power. Even so, I was able to get quite slow speeds out of both the drill and the impact driver by squeezing the triggers lightly. The fit, finish, and overall feel are excellent. They obviously have plastic bodies but they feel more solid than my old Dewalts. I should say that, although I bought these from HD, I had to order them online since the models I wanted are not carried in any of the stores near me. I spent a lot of time on Makita's web site comparing specs and knew exactly which models I wanted when I ordered. The models I looked at in the store seemed more consumer-oriented and lighter.

On a related note, I also got rid of my Dewalt sidewinder circular saw and purchased a Makita magnesium hypoid circular saw, which has a worm-drive form. It is considerably heavier than the Dewalt but I REALLY like this style of saw much better; it feels more like an extension of my arm and less like a tool I am pushing. It is also more powerful - I cut a pallet into firewood yesterday in what had to be a minute flat.

Hi Brian,
I have a Makita 36V track saw and I think it's great - very nice a capable tool. But I still like the Milwaukee for many of my 18V tools. I think it's a matter of personal preference. Of course - I have many of the Ryobi tools as well. The Ryobi seem to be lighter weight with less power and robustness compared to the Milwaukee, but their lighter weight is a big plus for many of my jobs.
David

[Peter Kuhlman]

My battery powered tools are almost all Makita. Reason being that the tools and batteries from many years ago work with the tools and batteries currently offered. Yes sometimes I have to clip off the bump in the tool that prevents using older batteries but it still works perfectly. I used to own Dewalt stuff but they kept changing battery designs which made the tools obsolete. Many quality tools available but I look at long term compatibility and Makita seems to be the one brand that focuses on that.

[Jim Dwight]

Most of my cordless tools are Ryobi 18V. The reciprocating saw is definitely less powerful than my corded DeWalt. I have the little 5 inch circular saw and it is handy sometimes but no match for my Milwaukee corded saw. I have two Ryobi drills and an impact driver. I've drill 1/2 holes in my boat trailer with one and drilled 2 1/8 in solid doors to put in lock sets. One broke doing this, however. I also have the right angle drill, and the vibriating tool (no match for my corded Fein). I really like the cordless 18 gauge nailer.

I also have a Bosch click 12 volt drill and it is much smaller and lighter than the Ryobi tools but still pretty powerful.

I just got a Milwaukee cordless angle grinder with two 6 amp hour batteries. It is a BEAST. A little heavy for little tasks but it is more powerful than my two corded angle grinders. My son uses a lot of Milwaukee tools for car work (1/2 and 3/4 impacts plus some other stuff).

None of my better Ryobi lithium ion batteries have quit on me but one of the small cheaper ones did. The one that quit has no gauge to tell you how much charge is left. A similar one is still working fine, however. I have two left less than 2 amp hours, 2 three amp hours and two four amp hours. Drills and impact drivers can use any of the batteries but the bigger tools really need the bigger batteries.

i used to have a DeWalt cordless back before lithium ion batteries. I'm sure they are better now but I thought the Ryobis were an upgrade to my old DeWalt.

[Tom M King]

I'm still using every Makita Li battery that ever came with a tool, including the white and black combo that have the half sized batteries that came out before the LXT's came out. One advantage is that they work, with one small modification, in my Graco cordless airless sprayer that the Graco batteries only last about a year in. I thought I had one go bad once, but it turned out to be a bad charger.

Also, my Home Depot often has the bare tools in the closeout bin in the back once in a while. I bought an angle grinder for $20, and a sawzall for 15. I think people thought they had the battery with the tool, and brought them back with the boxes kind of beat up, for return when they found out they didn't have batteries, or chargers.

[Mike Kees]

I have all Milwaukee M18 fuel tools now. I switched to one platform in 2012. As a carpenter with crew it was a mess with different brands and chargers. Way simpler now. I have a lot of friends in trades here in Alberta and would say that 30%are Makita,50 % Milwaukee And 20% everything else. Really do not see much Dewalt cordless stuff. My tool trailer is full of their corded tools though. I do not know if we got a bunch of bad batteries shipped here or the Makita batteries had trouble with our weather but it was a big problem about 6-7 years ago. When I switched to one brand I talked to all the trade/subtrade guys I knew about what they were using ,at the time Makita was number one. However the battery problem was mentioned to me more than once. I had my first Milwaukee battery fail last summer it was 6.5 years old and used continuously for all 6.5 years -20C to+ 30C. I really like the durability of the tools and I have a Milwaukee repair center in Lethbridge which is 45 minutes away if/when I need it. Dewalt has to be shipped out for repairs.

[Ed Henderson]

I have Bosch and Milwaukee 12 and 18 volt drills. I also have Bosch and Milwaukee 6 1/2 inch 18 volt saws. I seem to reach first for the Bosch. Recently I bought a Ryobi set of a router and a nailer because I will only use them outside my little shop infrequently. The Ryobi came with a good deal on batteries. They sound cheap but so far have worked well. I'm resisting the urge to buy an 18 volt reciprocating saw but suspect I'll break all speed limits getting to the store if a good deal comes up. It will likely be either Bosch or Milwaukee but the Ridgid would be tempting if the right battery deal came with it.
If I was starting over I suspect I would wind up with mostly Festool because all reports are very good and they are not made in China.

[Terry Therneau]

There was an issue with Makita batteries several years ago. The sensor in the battery ran off one cell, and if you didn't use if for quite a long while (months) the battery could end up far enough out of balance that the charger would declare it to be a "bad battery" and refuse to charge it. I lost one battery that way. So for weekend warriors at least the "bad battery" stories have a basis in fact, but I am fairly sure that the problem is no longer present. One small issue that I noticed when doing a major house remodel was that my brother-in-laws Dewalt impact spun a fair bit slower than my Makita. The end result was that he was happier with mine and I was happier with his (he's a professional and I'm a hacker.) But that was almost 10 years ago so may no longer be true.
Terry T.

[Mike Kees]

I have noticed longer run times with brushless tools and also longer tool life. Lithium ion batteries are also way longer lasting (run times) and overall lifespan of the batteries. After that pick your poison (brand ). My previous experience with cordless tools was usually when the batteries crapped out the tool was not far behind,as in the useful life of the batteries was the same for the tool. Cordless technology has come a long,long ways. I wonder how much better it will get in the next 10 years ?

[Ole Anderson]

I have an old 14.4 volt Dewalt XRP, the real thing back then. heavy as all get-out. My Dewalt replacement battery died after 12 years, A new Dewalt battery was $70. Got a no-name on Amazon for less than $20, delivered less than 24 hours after I ordered it. If it lasts more than 5 years I will be happy. Keep it as a backup. Current driver/drill combo is an 18 volt PC probably 8 or 9 years old, still works fine. Just finished a project replacing the PT boards on my dock with composite decking, removing, predrilling and setting nearly 600 screws. One battery change on the larger batteries. My son got the newer PC 20 volt version, nicer with more features. If i were buying new, I would likely go Milwaukee brushless.