Mortiser on your JP or a Domino?

[Julie Moriarty]

Not that I'm in the market but I was on Felder's E-Shop looking at table extensions when, out of curiosity, I wanted to see what their mortiser attachment cost. It was $890. That's less than the small Domino. So I looked at the videos and it seemed to me the mortiser would be the better choice... if I was in the market.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GM7q-Djf8Y

Thoughts?

[Greg Parrish]

Looks nice but my concern is where to store it when not in use, and having to take it on and off all the time. Jointer looks like it would be difficult to use with this in place.

[Charles P. Wright]

I don't have a mortiser for my Minimax FS41, but I do have a DF500 with an MFT3. So keep in mind that I am only informed half way.

Looking at that video, clamping and moving the workpiece around seems like it is going to take much more effort than with my domino. I can edge glue boards using dominos for alignment very quickly; without the need to move the clamp. I can also do butt joints like demonstrated in the beginning of the video with dowels quickly; with minimal clamping.

The other thing is that the domino has excellent dust collection; I don't see how to do that properly with the mortising attachment.

What I could not do with my domino are the hinges that they are demonstrating, but I have never had any project which has called for them.

What is your intended use case?

[Julie Moriarty]

It's nothing but curiosity right now, Charles. There have been times I considered a Domino but the price and the fact you have to forever buy Festool's pricey dominos kept me from pulling the trigger.

As for dust collection, another video showed connecting a dust hose to the bottom of the unit but I don't know how that would work. I think it was in the same video they showed the guy installing the mortiser by himself in a few minutes.

[Jim Becker]

I never opted for the mortiser for my J/P, largely because of space issues...on my particular unit, it would have come off the back side and that just wouldn't work given my space constraints. I do have the Domino 700XL and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the tool. I'm sorry I waited so long to buy one. It's also not confined to one spot in my shop which I find to be a plus.

BTW, I did have the opportunity to play with the mortiser on the late Mark Singer's FS-41 Elite a number of years ago and as some folks will indicate, these mortising systems on J/Ps do very nice work and are generally smooth to operate.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Julie, I guess I am in the minority here, I have the mortiser for my MM FS-41 Elite vintage 2004.

The mortiser hangs off the back of my machine and does a wonderful job excavating mortises using birdsmouth bits. I bought the mortiser when the Domino was only a glimmer in Festools eye. The downside is the mortiser is not portable and depending on the J/p sometimes the mortiser is in the way of either jointing or planning, thankfully that’s not the case with my machine.

Also have to confess, I build super traditional 18th century furniture and seldom use loose tendons which the slot mortiser excels at, as does the the Domino..

[Joe Hendershott]

I can only comment on the Domino and like Jim I love it and now cannot understand how I went so long without one. A superb tool in every way.

[David Kumm]

A horizontal mortiser is only as good as how stout it is built. Any vibration or weakness in either the table or slides will create inconsistencies. Some small cuts in soft wood can be great but large hardwood cuts, especially if matching end grain and long grain can be a problem. I have an FD 250 and it good stand a little a little more heft. Dave

[Dan Friedrichs]

I had the same conundrum, and bought the Domino. Domino is portable, better dust collection, holds re-sale value better, more useful (IMHO), and quicker to setup/use. If the mortiser were much cheaper, I'd have to think about it, but given that they're roughly the same price, the answer seems obvious (to me).

Julie, FYI - you don't have to buy Festool dominos - you can easily make your own stock. But at ~$0.10/ea, it's hard to justify.

[John TenEyck]

I have a mortiser on the back of my older FS-35, which I got as part of the deal when I bought the machine, used. It's great for the 5/8" x 3+" deep mortises I make in door stiles/rails. But it's not nearly as easy or fast as my shop made horizontal router mortiser and that's my first choice for anything 1/2" or smaller. If I didn't have the horizontal router mortiser, I would want a Domino as that tool is far easier and faster to use than my slot mortiser. As an aside, you can just as easily make your own Dominos as I make loose tenons for my mortisers; there's no need to buy them. But bear in mind that a slot mortiser can make much wider and much deeper mortises than a Domino. For most furniture and cabinet work that is of no consequence, but it is if you want to make exterior doors, etc. If I were faced with buying one or the other I'd buy the Domino, w/o hesitation.

John

[Prashun Patel]

Julie, I have not bought the loose tenons for my Domino. I make them myself from the inevitable scrap on any project.

The domino is genius for reasons that non users won’t appreciate. Layout is fast because you typically just strike off both sides of the joint, drill a mortise on one side, then flip a switch to widen the swing a few mm and drill the other side. This makes it possible to A large amount of perfectly fitting mortises extremely fast.

The only negative of the domino is the perception that it is cheating.

The cutting action is very stable. This means even making cuts in the middle of a board face with the unit vertical is easy to control from wandering.

[johnny means]

The Domino machine is much easier to use and more flexible. The slot mortiser would be better suited for a high production situation.

[Warren Lake]

think slot mortisers are slow for production stuff. The Maka Joe has and chain mortisers will be faster and those itallian ones that are automatic. Cant remember the name.

[Brian Holcombe]

I have not used a Domino.

I can only speak from the slot mortiser that I have, which is an FD-250, it has a pretty big range, it's quick to move from mortise to mortise and it's practically silent in operation. I don't know if the machine mounted mortisers are similar in their range, so you'll have to check on that.

I cut with 'mortising' type router bits, so I can get around 4"-4.5" max depth.

The mortiser can also be a line-boring machine, so it can cut pockets for door hinges and act as a horizontal drill press with an accurate depth stop and ease of repeatability.

I layout with a knife on the first mortise, set my stops to those marks, set my height and I'm off. I can position stops for a range of about 4', so I can set stops for door stiles and larger furniture pieces without making room in my layout for positioning errors.

The Domino XL is $1400, cuts .563" wide by 2.75" deep max and produces 94 Db. The standard Domino cuts a max of .375" wide, and a max depth of 1.060" deep.

Festool does resell, I resold my Kapex at a loss of $450, but it does resell :D

[Brian Holcombe]

think slot mortisers are slow for production stuff. The Maka Joe has and chain mortisers will be faster and those itallian ones that are automatic. Cant remember the name.

Balestrini? I've seen it quoted that they can do 700 mortises/hour.

The slot mortiser varies greatly because they're not automatic, but I'm probably cutting a mortise in 20-30 seconds with the slot mortiser and a bit that excavates quickly. The changeover between parts is longer with my setup but with air clamps you could be moving pretty quickly.

I dont think the slot mortiser is really a production machine, at least not a competitive one. It's for short-runs, IMO.

[scott lipscomb]

I bought a used Minimax J/P that came with the mortiser. It looks really nice and beefy and looks like it would work well, but I also have the big Domino, and that tool absolutely rules. I haven't yet made a mortise where I thought the J/P mortiser would be faster or better.

[Andrew Hughes]

I use the domino. It so fast and easy to bring the tool to the work.
I don’t always use it for loose tenons sometimes just to make the mortise.
I make dominos as I need them.
Hey look I have thee I’s lined up :)

[Derek Cohen]

Not that I'm in the market but I was on Felder's E-Shop looking at table extensions when, out of curiosity, I wanted to see what their mortiser attachment cost. It was $890. That's less than the small Domino. So I looked at the videos and it seemed to me the mortiser would be the better choice... if I was in the market.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GM7q-Djf8Y

Thoughts?

Julie, I would trade my Domino DF500 for that attachment (for my A3-31) in a heartbeat!

My preference is traditional joinery. I am a hobbiest and not mass producing items or working to strict deadlines. I have the luxury of time to do the joinery I prefer. I purchased a Domino to aid in a kitchen build (20 frame-and-panels are not taken lightly when my wife says "get on with it"). That was 2+ years ago, and I have hardly touched the Domino since. Sacrilege for some, I know :)

I either chop mortices by hand or, in most cases, I excavate them with a router jig I built. This enables the mortices to be any size and depth needed. There are a range of mortice and tenon joints, and each one has a purpose. I do not do loose tenon joinery.

I hope that this is not coming across as a negation of the Domino. It is simply my preference in how I build furniture. I am really open to being educated about Domino, which is why I still have it and do not plan to sell it.

Now the morticing attachment is a terrific tool. It appears to have a range of uses, and it also appears to have a repeatable setting. I can do much of this on my router jig, but this attachment is just so much more convenient to use.

This is my jig ...

https://i.postimg.cc/431Yf9fX/21a.jpg

It is essentially a vertical version of that horizontal mortiser.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Hughes]

Derek isn’t you router jig making mortises just the same as a domino?

I have the same router setup except Festool Router haven’t need to use it since the domino does the same thing.

[Derek Cohen]

Derek isn’t you router jig making mortises just the same as a domino?

I have the same router setup except Festool Router haven’t need to use it since the domino does the same thing.

Hi Andrew

The short answer is "no". Not all mortices are the same. Here is my last build, a base for a coffee table, where the legs splayed ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable6_html_4ab32cd8.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable6_html_636f48d8.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable9_html_2cdff40a.jpg

No doubt one can do this on a larger Domino.

How about this coped tenon ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheChairCoping_html_35515e88.jpg

... into this mortice ....

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheChairMortices_html_a50522c.jpg

... to create this ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheChairMortices_html_m41d1abb7.jpg

Here is a frame-and panel ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Coved-Frame-And-Panel_html_6872a492.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Coved-Frame-And-Panel_html_m3816bb03.jpg

... to receive a haunched tenon ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Coved-Frame-And-Panel_html_m48552b5e.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Coved-Frame-And-Panel_html_40258716.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Lake]

Brian

Balestrini, Bacci, maybe more I forget stuff ive seen at auctions, lots of vowels. Good info there on your mortiser. I need to spend more time on mine have more bits now as well. Still always found it slower and have to bend over to look compared to the verticle mortiser. Derek nice jig and construction and hand work there. Stop teasing us by not showing the whole piece :)

[Simon MacGowen]

The domino joiner is head and shoulders above any mortiser in doing angles. Such examples like window louvers and others can be found over the Festool forum. I learned the three way miter joint from a club fellow as he demonstrated his technique based on the domino manual. Youtube has tons of domino videos on countless projects.

as Prashun says, the domino is genius for reasons that non users won’t appreciate. Or perhaps even some casual or long time users won't appreciate the power of their domino joiners.

Simon

[Derek Cohen]

Brian
....Derek nice jig and construction and hand work there. Stop teasing us by not showing the whole piece :)

Warren, I tell you what - I'll show you the pieces that these became, and you - and others - please show me example of joinery using the Domino which you consider to be an advantage over traditional mortice-and-tenons. I'd really like to see how I can best put to to work alongside my current methods.

I'm sure you have seen these before ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable9_html_43990ca8.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/WeavingSeatCompletingTheChair_html_2ebf780e.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TopOfTheWorldToYou_html_m11845893.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Lake]

No Domino for me so far, ive heard of them but never looked. Your last two photos are how I was taught to make doors, nice to see that. Nice work and your chair reminds me of dinning chairs one of the two old germans I knew did. His wife is still in the home and he made every stick of furniture, floors, kitchen some windows and more.

[Jim Andrew]

Derek, amazing work there. Have you guys forgot that Grizzly came out with a new slot mortiser? I bought their old drilling machine, which works pretty well.

[Carl Beckett]

Lets see... I have a Woodrat. And a Wirth machine. And a mortising attachment for a Smart 300. And those square bits that go in a drill press adapter. And routers. And a Smithy combo lathe/mill. And a Domino 500. And of course some chisels and mallet. Oh, and a Kreg pocket hole fixture (if we are talking joinery need to throw that one in!). No doweling fixture (strangely never appealed in any way to me), but do have a biscuit joiner in the drawer somewhere. Oh, and a tenoning fixture on the tablesaw.

The Domino is very fast to make floating tenon joints in a certain size. And its simple to cut a piece to finished length (especially when doing angles, etc). They seem strong enough, but I would say overall the joints with the Domino are smaller cross section than the traditional joinery.

I still havent taken to the idea that I want to do everything with floating tenons. There is a certain satisfaction to the larger surface areas and cross section of traditional design. Personal satisfaction of the design and process. (note I am not producing product, and am here as a hobby and the PROCESS is as enjoyable as the finished piece. Because when you are done, well, you are done and have to start over on something new so its good to enjoy along the way....)

A lot of times I want a longer/deeper mortise than what the Domino does. (again traditional joinery) Cant beat one of these mortise machines (and yes I clamp a piece into the mill every now and then - brainless).

For tenons I like the Woodrat. Even angles just clamp in and chase it around the outside and done. Although tenons over a couple inches in length get special consideration on the table saw or more often by hand (bandsaw then cleanup with a shoulder plane).

So 'it depends' on the philosophical approach to the piece on which tool I reach for. Kinda like dovetailed drawers. I could drawer lock or glue/pin them or even Domino them together. But sometimes at least, I like the look and satisfaction of traditional dovetails. I find the same thought process with the Domino. Its great when I want a fast and strong 'mid tier' joinery technique. But if I am doing a piece that I want to go all the way with, I stick with the traditional joinery. And a mortising machine makes short work of that. (go look at really high end gallery furniture, like northwest woodworkers gallery, not a lot of domino in use there).

(it always surprises me how 'passionate' users become over a certain method or tool)

[Mike King]

I have the mortiser for my CF741 as well as a domino. They both have their place. For most joinery, I prefer the mortiser. There are places were the domino is just easier and quicker.

if I could only have 1 it’d likely be the mortiser. I’ve used it not only for mortises, but for drilling aligned holes as well.

mike

[Julie Moriarty]

Standing on the outside looking in, it seems the mortiser is both more economical and more versatile than the Domino. If you want to drill a larger diameter with the mortiser, you insert a larger diameter bit. With the Domino, you have to buy the larger machine. Ouch! With the mortiser you could make tenons, with a little improvising. And then there's being able to drill a lock mortise or any other variety of mortises. The Domino seems really more of a doweling system than mortising system.

The Domino 500 is $960 and the 700 is $1400. The Hammer mortiser is $890 and the mortising bit set (6, 8, 10, 12, 14mm) is around $60. Their 8, 10, 12, 14, 16mm slot-cutting set is $260. Both go up to 20mm in diameter. And it runs off a 4HP motor.

The downside is trying to joint a board with the mortiser attached appears difficult, at best. It's not portable or easy to stow. And you can't just pull it out cut a few holes and put it away easily.

Or so it all appears sitting here in the bleachers.

[Jim Becker]

There is no one "best way" to do things...and an individual woodworker may often get benefit from having multiple methods for mortising in their tooling/skill-set. I spoke highly of the Domino as it has been very supportive of "what I do", but I'm also ready, willing and able to do more traditional M&T using hand tools if that's what best serves a project. I had a bench-top mortiser for many years, but it went nearly unused in my shop...another local woodworker put it on his bench and it gets a lot more action because it works "for what he does".

So if you feel that you'll get the most utility from the Hammer mortiser attachment, that's going to be a good choice for you and it still doesn't take away your ability to adopt other methods when they are best for a project.

[Jon Grider]

I like Jim's comment. If you do lots of fine work like Derek C. maybe the Domino is not the best choice for that type of work. I like mine because it allows me to get the job done, make strong joints, and move on. If the cost of Dominos is a factor in your decision, you can get a systainer full of them,with bits and free shipping of Amazon de. for much less than you can on this side of the pond. You have to keep an eye out for that deal though. Thanks to Van Huskey for that tip.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Julie, your assessment is reasonable. The detail perhaps not captured is the ease of set-up with the Domino. Yes, you could cut tenons with the slot mortiser, but it will require set-up, test fits, tweaking, etc. The Domino is really designed for perfect-fit, dust-free, high-strength jointery of essentially any pieces of wood in a matter of literally seconds.

This (http://thedovetailjoint.squarespace.com/storage/Festool%20Domino%20Manual%20Release%201.2%20reduce d.pdf)is one of the best "how to" manuals for the Domino I've ever seen, and there are some incredible examples of very fine furniture being built using very unique applications of Dominos. Scroll through the pictures, at least, to get an idea for how it is much more than a doweling system.

[Prashun Patel]

That coped mortise can be done with a domino quite precisely. The tenon side can either be cut by hand or a custom loose tenon can easily be made. The Domino provides options for doing part or all of the joint. For thinner parts, sometimes an integral tenon is what I want, but I can still do a reliable mortise with the domino and then clean up the corners.

[Simon MacGowen]

With the Domino, you have to buy the larger machine. Ouch!

You can do everything with just the XL (700) by using the third party adaptor bits in place of the DF500. You don't need both the DF500 & 700.

However, that's not the approach I prefer, just like while in theory we can do any chisel work with a 1/8" chisel alone, none of us would have only one bench chisel. I use the one (500 or 700) that suits the job best.

As Dan points out, fine work or not has nothing to do the dj; it is the skills and techniques that dictate the outcome of the work. I forgot the issue nos, but Fine Woodworking has featured work using the dj joint. Instagram should have lots of pieces (esp. chairs) done with the dj too.

There are many examples in the two festool forums on fine furniture pieces made using the dj; here's one example:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/3-way-mitered-domino-cabinet/

I know a fellow in the high end staircase business, and his team has been using the dj for custom railing work which is practically impossible to do with a mortiser.

By the way, some mentioned about the cost of dominoes, and some pointed out that they make their own dominoes. I know some do. But to me, the consumable costs are minimal compared to the lumber used for the builds (not to mention the .de deal). Frankly, the stock preparation part in any project I do is the least part I enjoy. Making the dominoes is a process almost identical to stock preparation. If I could, I would contract out any stock preparation work to another woodworker!

Simon

[John TenEyck]

Or one could build (for free) or buy one of my horizontal router mortisers and do nearly everything a slot mortiser and Domino does. I built this almost 10 years ago after not being able to justify the price of a Domino and not liking it's limitations, as Derek pointed out, relative to size of the mortises it can produce, and before I had my FS-35 with the attached slot mortise. Even after I got the slot mortiser I use the horizontal router mortiser for everything except really wide and deep mortises because it's easier to set up and use, and much faster.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Zpe78D3BnXK0wfxCChUmF5QxT53J6qgiKaS5KwFEMWt2Tgm-L9lgvHVjACFNVdtuKw1x8c6lm6S7tW7KrBlsD9kyIbl9xnbEzu or0G-QJGm75SrjZUSwiaX5LilFHHyP8TtOEeN4TKHCyDKXGFzEOR96V IKo8SBfHWZBlf4tGAWXrvQYwYEgSih_qc45GTQ4bW5KwQz5T5B 5SnNxh_6L8SukfW3ZFI8DaR-8jJD9I2Ix_r9ZNl7VG6QG0idBClLIFDWP_9WyiHnfzbPWSbRHo K4_H46xyuEYi67R8NjfpVyuMy_0krXbnZXWvf_ZHL6WiA0wkP5 4wLdUJV5s2B4VHVB7nYVBVPgnsd1fta9zZtbFmAzrS2Qyw_SKD AiB_WnoWNi_asK4CtMRwSnWT_kAiaPWxXMh8CvWCY3zAprazdD IuJ3TQ-dkm6iM4Nrb-wca3p9VSkhVS_930Em3NdUcl2qs8hMyoPZCRJmDK6IPNX0cFJ_ MVrrJRmo3PvxPr3uSirP8XYcZcw4nbCPqO77jQGV_y5ACkKc5M NicVVFAPJgPpYJy_5r5V9Y1FVdpRw0aix_QlY0KOi97T3fBp8X Sp5vSR3N3hscw1d5ehXVqYbtGMqpIImwZhcNNVlLXNFGFVVDjU lvYXD0r-Uk3Fk5XStw_KD-T8BfHDPTS-IaP9brIkthCXVT2FDVGhSDht9hEO2C26AoviRjJ-1BerOYbG-cQRw=w835-h626-no

The version shown above has a tilting table that makes cutting angled mortises like used on chairs, etc. very easy to do. You can build the first version of this from free plans at this link for around $100 or less in materials and around 10 hours of your time. https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/horizontal-router-mortiser
While made of MDF, that machine has cut thousands of mortises, and much more, and is still being used today by a friend I gave it to after I built the model shown above. You don't have to spend a lot to be able to cut mortises of almost any size quickly, accurately, and safely.

This is not a plug to sell you a machine, although I'm happy to do so. I'm only pointing out that there are low cost alternatives that are highly versatile and you should at least look at them before spending big bucks.

John

[Simon MacGowen]

Or one could build (for free) or buy one of my horizontal router mortisers and do nearly everything a slot mortiser and Domino does.
John

"nearly" is cleverly put there.:p

Your photo reminds me of the shop-made domino joiner (search youtube if anyone is interested in how it was made). That shop-made dj also "nearly" does everything the Festool dj does. And we must not forget that there are many shop-made table saws (made of a ply wood top and a circular saw) out there that nearly do everything a cabinet table saw can do.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

I. But bear in mind that a slot mortiser can make much wider and much deeper mortises than a Domino. For most furniture and cabinet work that is of no consequence, but it is if you want to make exterior doors, etc. If I

John

John, The XL is perfect for making exterior doors...exterior balcony railing etc.

The dj can also cut wide mortises using overlapping cuts. But double mortises or twin mortises are the usual dj way for added strength.

Simon

[Chris Fournier]

I am anti Domino because I am stubborn, don't see the value, and am stubborn... Oh yeah, cheap too! I have had two slot mortisers on my Minimax machines and If I had a third machine I'd have a slot mortiser on it too! It is slower to set up for sure but you can make massive mortises with it and I use it for making doors every time. For smaller work I am convinced that biscuit joinery is the high value option in my shop. I also am not afraid to make one off router jigs for floating tenon work if needed.

I don't see why one couldn't make their own dominoes, they are after all just floating tenons branded by Festool...

[Simon MacGowen]

I am anti Domino

Pretty sure the size of the group of woodworkers who are anti Domino is not as big as the anti-sawstop's.:D:D:D

Simon

[Warren Lake]

it will be when they put flesh sensing technology into the domino and then try to force lamello and everyone else to use it in their gadgets.

[Simon MacGowen]

it will be when they put flesh sensing technology into the domino and then try to force lamello and everyone else to use it in their gadgets.

Haha...

For now, Fesool's priority is to push its new Festool saw with the flesh-sensing technology into the EU market. The prototype looks promising.

DFSS 500 or 700? I hope the bit could be re-used....

Simon

[John TenEyck]

"nearly" is cleverly put there.:p

Your photo reminds me of the shop-made domino joiner (search youtube if anyone is interested in how it was made). That shop-made dj also "nearly" does everything the Festool dj does. And we must not forget that there are many shop-made table saws (made of a ply wood top and a circular saw) out there that nearly do everything a cabinet table saw can do.

Simon

I could just as easily have said a Domino can do nearly as much as my horizontal router mortiser. Can a Domino do compound angle mortises? Can it make mortises of nearly any size, integral tenons, dovetails, raised panels, rabbets, dowel holes?

John

[Simon MacGowen]

I could just as easily have said a Domino can do nearly as much as my horizontal router mortiser. Can a Domino do compound angle mortises? Can it make mortises of nearly any size, integral tenons, dovetails, raised panels, rabbets, dowel holes?

John

Dominoes are loose tenons or floating tenons, not dovetails, or anything else. Inventors of the dj never intended a dj to do dowel holes...a dj is not a hole drilling machine.

Mortises of varying sizes, yes, by changing the fence heights and, as I said earlier, overlapping the cuts (in which case, non-Festool dominoes/tenons need to be made. It is faster and more accurate to use double, triple, twin or twin double etc. dominoes, however.

Compound angle mortises? Do you have a link to what they are? As long as a joint can be completed using the traditional M&T or the floating tenons, any angles are doable. http://4dfurniture.blogspot.com/2016/05/

The dj is an under-appreciated machine when people relate to it as a biscuit joiner or doweling jig. It has a deep learning curve, and other users disagree on that statement because they are thinking about the learning curve for the basic functions of a dj only: butt joint, jointing, miters, etc., tasks that can be done equally well with biscuits, pocket hole joinery, or even just plain glue. For instance, we see a lot of pictures showing the dominoes in edge jointing...for many of which dominoes were totally unnecessary, or an extra step with no extra benefits. I seldom use dominoes for jointing unless it is something 1" thick and 3" or 4' long or more.

Simon

[mreza Salav]

Have tried various ways of making mortises. Considered getting an attachment for my J/p. Had Domino 500 and used it extensively. It was worth every penny as its fast and i mean faster than any other method and then soldit and got 700. It is serving 99% of my needs unless i need to make 4” deep ones which i rarely need. Its fool proof and quite fasr to make several joints vs doing one using another machine.
Love the machine and I regret not buying it sooner.

[Brian Holcombe]

I believe John's mentioning dovetails because you can cut sliding dovetails with a slot mortiser.

You can argue almost any tool has a deep learning curve, consider how many possibilities a slot mortiser opens up.

[Simon MacGowen]

I believe John's mentioning dovetails because you can cut sliding dovetails with a slot mortiser.

You can argue almost any tool has a deep learning curve, consider how many possibilities a slot mortiser opens up.

I think I was pretty clear in my first post that when it comes to angles, the dj is far superior to any mortiser. Anyone who can show that the reverse is true, I would welcome them sharing examples or applications they have come across. I did not say the dj can do everything a mortiser does, but, for example, I am sure a mortiser can't do fixed shelves as quickly and easily as a dj, traditionally a task best done with dados. I have never used any of my dado sets since acquiring the dj which requires no test cuts and no allowance for dado depths when preparing the shelves to length. What a time saver there.

Sliding dovetails or rabbets or grooves have not been promoted by anyone including Festool as tasks that a dj is good for. Floating tenon is what the dj is all about. With that being said, could a dj do short grooves or rabbets? The answer is yes, if one knows about reducing the depth of cut beyond the factory settings (covered in the supplementary manual), guiding the dj on a straight edge, etc. But would one actually use a dj to do those tasks that a dj is not designed for? Unlikely. By the way, we are here talking about the dj being used as a hand-held machine. Out there, we have seen people using the dj in a stationary machine fashion, meaning that it may not be impossible to expand the functions of a dj even further.

Simon

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have a Hammer A3-31, so have looked at the mortise attachment before, but have never been really excited enough to pull the plug on this device.

I've had the Domino DF500 for about 10 years, bought all the different size bits and a box load of Dominoes, in different sizes and it's taking me a long time to get through them. I find them really useful mostly when making cabinets out of 3/4" stock, but do use them for other projects.

I recently built about 10 window worth of plantation shutters and decided, as the shutters were quite large, I would mortise the rail and stiles. The Domino 500 capacity just wasn't going to be large enough for these shutters.

So I first looked at the MLCS Horizontal Router Table kit ($300) and bought this. It is light and small enough to move around the shop and seemed like it would be the ticket to cut the large mortises and tenons for my shutter frames.

I then became a little concerned about how I would support a 6' long stile while I was cutting a mortise near each end. So the MLCS unit never made it out of the box.

Next up I forgot I had a M-Power CRB7 Router base. So I set this up and did a couple of mortises, using this, with the stile clamped in my bench. This worked well, was a little slow, but was messy as my hand routers don't really have any real good chip/dust collection.

With the need to do about 50+ mortises on this first batch of shutters, after trying out a Powermatic PM719 mortise machine, I bought one. It was such a joy and easy to use, quiet and relatively clean in operation. To compliment this tool, I bought the Powermatic table saw tenoning jig, which was also super easy to cut the tenons on each end of my rails with my SawStop PCS175 (although that just got a motor upgrade).

When I'm not joining plywood, the mortise machine will be my go to tool for face frames and other furniture type projects.

I think all these tools have their place and many times one tool is more suited than another for a particular joint.

I wouldn't give up my Domino machine, but If I didn't have the capability to buy and store the PM719, I'd just stick to the CRB7 jig.

[John TenEyck]

I'm lost. What's a dj?

John

[Dan Friedrichs]

dj = Domino jointer (?)

Worth noting that the Domino has essentially 100% chip collection. Zero mess. I really like that :D

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm lost. What's a dj?

John

This should help to clear things up :D


https://youtu.be/GtfZbj4J71A

[Simon MacGowen]

I'm lost. What's a dj?

John

My bad...domino joiner. The habit from trying to avoid typing long text messages on the phone.

Simon

[Mike King]

Btw, my mortifying table for the CF741 has a cart that allows me to store the table when not in use. Can’t you get a cart for the table on the Hammer?

[Kevin Jenness]

Mike, can you post a picture of your mortifying table?

[Randy Heinemann]

One of the best tools I ever bought was the Domino. It is possibly the most versatile tool in my shop. It gives me an easy, quick, accurate method to put together anything I've wanted to make since I've bought it. I created standard mortise and tenon joints several different ways, including by hand and with mortising bits. For me, none of those methods compare to the Domino's results and ease of use. . . but, as another poster said, it's what you get used to and feel comfortable with. There are a lot of ways to make mortise and tenon joints (and also loose tenon joints). If it works for you without spending a lot of money on a tool, but it's always fun to buy a tool which turns out to be one of the most useful tools in your shop.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Mike, can you post a picture of your mortifying table?

Hahahaha! :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Btw, my mortifying table for the CF741 has a cart that allows me to store the table when not in use. Can’t you get a cart for the table on the Hammer?

Hi Mike, short answer, no......Regards, Rod

[John TenEyck]

Dominoes are loose tenons or floating tenons, not dovetails, or anything else. Inventors of the dj never intended a dj to do dowel holes...a dj is not a hole drilling machine.

Mortises of varying sizes, yes, by changing the fence heights and, as I said earlier, overlapping the cuts (in which case, non-Festool dominoes/tenons need to be made. It is faster and more accurate to use double, triple, twin or twin double etc. dominoes, however.

Compound angle mortises? Do you have a link to what they are? As long as a joint can be completed using the traditional M&T or the floating tenons, any angles are doable. http://4dfurniture.blogspot.com/2016/05/

The dj is an under-appreciated machine when people relate to it as a biscuit joiner or doweling jig. It has a deep learning curve, and other users disagree on that statement because they are thinking about the learning curve for the basic functions of a dj only: butt joint, jointing, miters, etc., tasks that can be done equally well with biscuits, pocket hole joinery, or even just plain glue. For instance, we see a lot of pictures showing the dominoes in edge jointing...for many of which dominoes were totally unnecessary, or an extra step with no extra benefits. I seldom use dominoes for jointing unless it is something 1" thick and 3" or 4' long or more.

Simon

Simon, you will get no argument from me about the merits of a Domino. I'd love to have one; just can't justify the cost as a hobbiest. Same thing for the JDS Multirouter. But after I built my horizontal router mortiser I had even less reason to want either. It's a very simple and intuitive machine to use; no deep learning curve. It's also very versatile, more so than I realized when I first built it. It won't cut mortises in the center of a shelf, like a Domino can, but a Domino can't make rabbets, integral tenons, etc. that my machine can. No machine does everything or we all would only own one machine. This thread started by the OP asking about the merits of a slot mortiser vs. a Domino, and cost seemed to be a consideration in the choice. I was trying to point out that there are alternatives to either of those options that do most/all/more (depending upon your point of view) than either of those at lower cost. That is all.

John