Low angle pocket holes

[Ross Manning]

Does anyone have experience with the low angle pocket holes produced by machines such as the Castle TSM-12 or similar?

https://castleusa.com/products/a00013-benchtop-pocket-cutter-machine-tsm-12.html

I'm interested to know if the 6 degree angle causes any problems when driving screws, particularly clearance for the drill chuck.

I like the idea of the clean routed pockets, and the touted advantage of minimising joint slipping while driving screws .

[Kevin Jenness]

Low angle pockets are the way to go as they minimize lateral shift. A 6" driver bit should give sufficient clearance. A down shear bit will eliminate tearout at the pocket surface if that matters to you.

[Ross Manning]

Thanks Kevin.

I'm planning on building a benchtop version of the Castle. No timeframe on starting, but a DIY pocket hole machine is on the todo list.

[johnny means]

I worked with a castle machine early in my career and found the Kreg type pockets frustrating when I had to use them. One drawback is that Castle machines aren't nearly as flexible as the Kreg system. For plywood and frame production I would definitely go with a Castle machine or similar.

[Kevin Jenness]

Ross, if you keep yours eyes open you may find a used manual Castle machine. I picked up my Porter Cable 552 for $300 . It is limited to 7/8" material. Not much to go wrong with those machines.

[Jared Sankovich]

Ross, if you keep yours eyes open you may find a used manual Castle machine. I picked up my Porter Cable 552 for $300 . It is limited to 7/8" material. Not much to go wrong with those machines.

If you use a thinner top, you can get 1 & 1/8 thick stock to fit.
403640

Though considering the op is in Australia, used or even new castle/pc machines might not exist there.

[Kevin Jenness]

Jared, thanks for the tip. I may have a steel plate made for mine.

[J.R. Rutter]

The 552 is a great little machine, and the thinner table is a great idea.

[Jeff Davies]

No, The low angle is a benefit in reducing edge shift . The Castle is a great machine , and very quickly made others like the Ritter , look out dated .
I would encourage you to make one yourself . it is, after all just a swing set with a couple of routers as riders. and there is no reason the swinging action could not be hand or peddle activated. and it would amaze all your friends ! Regards, J J Davies
Oh and P/S ...you will need a 6 " driver bit , but that's easy .

[Ross Manning]

Thanks All,

Sadly, in Australia we don't get the benefit of so many of the great tools & machines available in NA. And right now our dollar has tanked, so importing things is not viable either (especially when you add the freight charges).

I don't think it will be difficult to make something. I'm only a hobbyist, so robust build quality won't be a huge issue. I can buy big box store house brand router to cut the pockets, and a cheap corded drill for the pilot hole.

[James Biddle]

I recently made this post on another forum to a similar question. Castle advertises their machines as being less susceptible to joint creep than Kreg because they have a lower angle of entry. It's a few degrees if I remember. I have a hard time believing that eliminates the creep, maybe reduces it a little. In either case, clamps are necessary.

We spent a long time at IWF at the Castle and Kreg booths comparing the machines (and I was sold on the Castle TSM-22 before I got there). The Castle cuts a beautiful pocket hole, no doubt better looking than the Kreg, but we use pocket holes where they'll never be seen after install. In my opinion, the Castle is a better built machine on the outside and the Kreg better built on the inside. The whole mechanism for moving and syncing two routers as well as the adjustments, seemed less robust on the Castle. In the end, we picked up the Kreg DK1100. It's mounted on a bench so we didn't use up floor space, and is all pneumatic...much quieter than a pair of routers.

One thing that I've always wondered about but have never seen any reported issues is this: The Castle cuts a slot leaving a radius at the end of the slot where the screw head engages during tightening. Wouldn't there more of a tendency for the screw to wedge and split the wood as its tightened into that radius?

[Jared Sankovich]

I recently made this post on another forum to a similar question. Castle advertises their machines as being less susceptible to joint creep than Kreg because they have a lower angle of entry. It's a few degrees if I remember. I have a hard time believing that eliminates the creep, maybe reduces it a little. In either case, clamps are necessary.

We spent a long time at IWF at the Castle and Kreg booths comparing the machines (and I was sold on the Castle TSM-22 before I got there). The Castle cuts a beautiful pocket hole, no doubt better looking than the Kreg, but we use pocket holes where they'll never be seen after install. In my opinion, the Castle is a better built machine on the outside and the Kreg better built on the inside. The whole mechanism for moving and syncing two routers as well as the adjustments, seemed less robust on the Castle. In the end, we picked up the Kreg DK1100. It's mounted on a bench so we didn't use up floor space, and is all pneumatic...much quieter than a pair of routers.

One thing that I've always wondered about but have never seen any reported issues is this: The Castle cuts a slot leaving a radius at the end of the slot where the screw head engages during tightening. Wouldn't there more of a tendency for the screw to wedge and split the wood as its tightened into that radius?

I can hold face frame parts flush with only my hand and drive in a screw if its a castle pocket, the kreg pockets need a good bit more clamping force.

I haven't seen any issues with splitting from the radius pocket.

[Kevin Jenness]

James, the 6 vs. 10 degree angle does not eliminate creep but does reduce it significantly. You still have to clamp the joint.

I can't comment on the Kreg machines, but I have operated and maintained a Castle TS 21. I believe the newer model has a flip-up top, which is a good thing as working on the old one was like changing spark plugs on a Chevy Monza in the dark. The plunge cycle depended on magnetic proximity sensors that needed adjustment or replacement periodically. Perhaps they have changed their system, but you may have made a good choice for a semi-automatic machine.

I have a manually operated unit which is crude but bombproof. With a downcut spiral bit the pockets are clean, which I like even if I am the only one to see them.

I have not had a problem with the rounded pocket ends, overdriven screws usually spin out before splitting anything.