New slider alignment video

[mark mcfarlane]

For anyone interested, I documented my recent alignment/calibration of my CU300 slider. The concepts are appropriate for all sliders.

There is an index of the video underneath it, just click on the 'SHOW MORE' link button.


https://youtu.be/x_HbyPzzhDk

I would have found this information helpful when I purchased the slider 18 months ago, so I hope others do as well.

Feel free to leave comments directly on the Youtube page, and 'Like' it if you do..

Cheers,

Mark

[Jim Becker]

Excellent video, Mark!!!! There is at least one thing there that I'm going to use "real soon now", too.

[Jeff Finazzo]

Hey Mark
Great video. I have been looking for a video like that for years as I have been searching for an understanding of how the setup process for a slider works.

Anyway i have a question for you about your CU300. if you could do it over would you do anything different? Reason I ask is I have gone through a whole bunch of research and actual equipment purchases (Felder/Hammer) and to be honest I have not been impressed with what I have experienced. With Hammer/Felder in particular. Long story there but I have decided to go another direction and look closer at the Minimax line and in particular a CU300 for the value that it offers. I did do a bunch or research a couple years ago on the CU300, almost pulled the trigger then. I wanted to see another users real work experience with the machine, purchasing process and dealer/manufacture support. any insight you could give would be great.

[mark mcfarlane]

.... if you could do it over would you do anything different?... I wanted to see another users real work experience with the machine, purchasing process and dealer/manufacture support. any insight you could give would be great.

Hi Jeff,

I also researched for about 2 years before purchasing my CU300, which was delivered about 18 months ago . I looked at Hammer and Felder as alternatives. I suspect I would be happy with any 3 of these brands.

The only two things that annoy me about the CU300 are 1) the changeover between jointer and thicknesser requires dropping or raising the thicknesser table 6 inches to get the dust collection hood flipped over, and 2) the shaper hood has to be removed to saw anything of substantial size. I suspect Hammer and Felder are similar, it seems to be a design constraint of combo machines.

Moving the thicknesser table only takes a minute of hand cranking, but it is annoying to me and I occasionally find myself doing it several times in a day. Better planning would help minimize changeovers, but sometimes I work on multiple small projects in the same day. If, for example, you are in thicknesser mode and want to saw something with more than 13" to the right of the blade you need to flip down the jointer table. This one catches me frequently. Also, you need to remove the shaper fence to saw anything large, another potential nuisance.

So my few minor complaints are related to my choice to buy a combo machine instead of seperates. For me that was a decision based on cost, not space, and I'd make the same decision today. It would be nice to have a standalone shaper set up, maybe with a rebate head on it,....

My 2017 CU300 has been robust, reliable, and a joy to use. It provides an accurate platform. It took me a while to convert my thought process on how to execute specific types of cuts on a slider, and my technique continues to evolve. There are many awesome videos on Youtube showing how people use a slider. I found many of them helpful.

I still need more practice on the j/p. Yesterday, for example, I was building a 4' long 2-piece panel of Sapele and I cut one long side on the slider and jointed the other long side. The slider cut sides mated perfectly so that's the joint I glued up. For some this is a great advantage of a slider, you can make relatively perfect 8' long glue up surfaces using the saw and two clamps.

I started my purchase process with Eric Loza (who has since taken another job) and completed it with Sam Blasco. Sam has been awesome to work. He doesn't just sell these thing, he uses them daily. I email Sam a few times a year with a question or idea and he always responds thoughtfully and helpfully. After sales support by Sam has exceeded my expectations.

There are a lot of people on this forum with Hammers and Felders who are very happy, so don't fret too much.

FWIW, in 2017 SCMI shipped to a local depot. The delivery from that warehouse to my shop was entirely up to me. I hired a professional equipment rigging company to transport the last 50 miles. An expensive option, but these guys had the right equipment and knowledge and delivered and uncrated the combo and a bandsaw within an inch of where I wanted them. I've read of people using trailers and winches,... my delivery was stress free.

Sam Blasco has good instructions for the initial setup, including cleaning off all the gunk that everything is coated in, sometimes in unexpected places.

Glad you enjoyed the video.

[brent stanley]

Wow, very thorough video Mark. Good stuff!

B

[Rod Sheridan]

Very thorough video Mark.................Rod.

[Derek Cohen]

Thank you Mark. That is a superb reference!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks Brent, Rid and Derek for the compliments.

For the record, I did leave one thing off the video:

There are 2 light-gauge bolts near the two ends of the slider rail that keep the toe out from going totally out of whack when you loosen the 5 heavy duty height adjustment bolts. These two bolts are set in the factory and probably don't need to be adjusted, I was able to nudge the slider toe out enough (a few thousandths) without loosening these two bolts.

I bought a new shimable scoring blade so I'll cover that setup in a new video, hopefully next week.

[Jeff Finazzo]

Hi Jeff,

I also researched for about 2 years before purchasing my CU300, which was delivered about 18 months ago . I looked at Hammer and Felder as alternatives. I suspect I would be happy with any 3 of these brands.

The only two things that annoy me about the CU300 are 1) the changeover between jointer and thicknesser requires dropping or raising the thicknesser table 6 inches to get the dust collection hood flipped over, and 2) the shaper hood has to be removed to saw anything of substantial size. I suspect Hammer and Felder are similar, it seems to be a design constraint of combo machines.

Moving the thicknesser table only takes a minute of hand cranking, but it is annoying to me and I occasionally find myself doing it several times in a day. Better planning would help minimize changeovers, but sometimes I work on multiple small projects in the same day. If, for example, you are in thicknesser mode and want to saw something with more than 13" to the right of the blade you need to flip down the jointer table. This one catches me frequently. Also, you need to remove the shaper fence to saw anything large, another potential nuisance.

So my few minor complaints are related to my choice to buy a combo machine instead of seperates. For me that was a decision based on cost, not space, and I'd make the same decision today. It would be nice to have a standalone shaper set up, maybe with a rebate head on it,....

My 2017 CU300 has been robust, reliable, and a joy to use. It provides an accurate platform. It took me a while to convert my thought process on how to execute specific types of cuts on a slider, and my technique continues to evolve. There are many awesome videos on Youtube showing how people use a slider. I found many of them helpful.

I still need more practice on the j/p. Yesterday, for example, I was building a 4' long 2-piece panel of Sapele and I cut one long side on the slider and jointed the other long side. The slider cut sides mated perfectly so that's the joint I glued up. For some this is a great advantage of a slider, you can make relatively perfect 8' long glue up surfaces using the saw and two clamps.

I started my purchase process with Eric Loza (who has since taken another job) and completed it with Sam Blasco. Sam has been awesome to work. He doesn't just sell these thing, he uses them daily. I email Sam a few times a year with a question or idea and he always responds thoughtfully and helpfully. After sales support by Sam has exceeded my expectations.

There are a lot of people on this forum with Hammers and Felders who are very happy, so don't fret too much.

FWIW, in 2017 SCMI shipped to a local depot. The delivery from that warehouse to my shop was entirely up to me. I hired a professional equipment rigging company to transport the last 50 miles. An expensive option, but these guys had the right equipment and knowledge and delivered and uncrated the combo and a bandsaw within an inch of where I wanted them. I've read of people using trailers and winches,... my delivery was stress free.

Sam Blasco has good instructions for the initial setup, including cleaning off all the gunk that everything is coated in, sometimes in unexpected places.

Glad you enjoyed the video.


Thank you Mark!
This was very helpful.
One more quick question. or maybe 2. :)
Did you consider the LAB300P while you were looking at the CU300? Just curious as I think this might work for me as well and the cost difference will buy the Domino I want, as well as some shaper tooilng. I know the slider length is a big difference, but if you take that out of the equation, is there much quality difference between the 2?

Also on the us of your shaper, does is remove the need for a router table? I am not a heavy user of a router table but i do see myself doing rabbits, minor edge profiles, pattern routing. No raised doors or panels.

I am ready to pull the trigger and just need to make a decision. Im a hobbiest all the way and work maybe a few hours a week in my shop to give you some background on my planned use. I am sill about 9 years away from retirement!! thanks again for your insight

[mark mcfarlane]

Hi Jeff. Sorry I don't have any first hand knowledge of the LAB300P. Never used one, never seen one. I think I read on this forum that the LAB300 wasn't up to the same quality-robustness level as Felder or Minimax. Try a search on the LAB300. I can vouch that the CU300 is fairly easy to set up (schedule a few days for a new machine, there is a lot of gunk to clean off in nooks and crannies) and seems to hold its settings very well. I don't mind periodically working on the machines themselves, but prefer a platform I can walk up to every morning and know what the results will be.

I love my Domino, one of my most rewarding and frequently used tools.

I still use my router table on every project, probably because I don't have a lot of shaper tooling. Ask me again in 10 years, I used the CU300 shaper for the first time this last fall.

Unfortunately, I don't seem to plan well for buying tooling enough in advance so when its time to shape something I end up looking through my router bits. I wanted to cut a 9 degree bevel on the top of a table this week. This would have been perfect for the shaper and very difficult for a router, but it was about $100 for a cutter that I may never use again and a few days wait for delivery. I built a vertical panel jig for the CU300 and finished the table top in a couple of hours. The bevel where the taper meets the flat top of the table would have been more consistent using a shaper and feeder, but I got close enough with flat stock and the jig that the finished top shows a straight bevel.

People who have lots of tooling seem to love their shapers and use router tables less frequently. Chicken, or egg?

[Carl Beckett]

The only two things that annoy me about the CU300 are 1) the changeover between jointer and thicknesser requires dropping or raising the thicknesser table 6 inches to get the dust collection hood flipped over, and 2) the shaper hood has to be removed to saw anything of substantial size. I suspect Hammer and Felder are similar, it seems to be a design constraint of combo machines.

I have the CU300 SMART, and agree with the items Mark listed, and will add one more, small nit: When I retract the TS fence so the tip does not go past leading edge of the blade, it is then 'rear heavy' which means it wants to tilt up in the air. At least until it is locked in place. But it means a two handed operation (and could be solved by me loping off part of the fence to shorten it, but not sure I want to go there).

I find the dust collection on the TS to be average at best unless the DC on the overhead guard is used.

They may all be this way, but in order to use the planer the TS fence also needs to be removed to allow the jointer tables to swing up.

Overall I like it and it allows me to have several machines in a small space.

[Jeff Finazzo]

Hi Jeff. Sorry I don't have any first hand knowledge of the LAB300P. Never used one, never seen one. I think I read on this forum that the LAB300 wasn't up to the same quality-robustness level as Felder or Minimax. Try a search on the LAB300. I can vouch that the CU300 is fairly easy to set up (schedule a few days for a new machine, there is a lot of gunk to clean off in nooks and crannies) and seems to hold its settings very well. I don't mind periodically working on the machines themselves, but prefer a platform I can walk up to every morning and know what the results will be.

I love my Domino, one of my most rewarding and frequently used tools.

I still use my router table on every project, probably because I don't have a lot of shaper tooling. Ask me again in 10 years, I used the CU300 shaper for the first time this last fall.

Unfortunately, I don't seem to plan well for buying tooling enough in advance so when its time to shape something I end up looking through my router bits. I wanted to cut a 9 degree bevel on the top of a table this week. This would have been perfect for the shaper and very difficult for a router, but it was about $100 for a cutter that I may never use again and a few days wait for delivery. I built a vertical panel jig for the CU300 and finished the table top in a couple of hours. The bevel where the taper meets the flat top of the table would have been more consistent using a shaper and feeder, but I got close enough with flat stock and the jig that the finished top shows a straight bevel.

People who have lots of tooling seem to love their shapers and use router tables less frequently. Chicken, or egg?


Thanks Mark, I am glad i asked about the Shaper. I was thinking I could go without a router table, but now im not sure. I will say I am starting fresh, no router bits, so i guess i could invest in shaper tooling only. But i have never used one so i am flying blind.

Going without a router table was part of my justification on spending this much on the combo machine. I guess I may need to find another rationalization!

Thanks again!!

[Erik Loza]

Awesome, Mark. Thanks for sharing.

Erik

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Mark, I am glad i asked about the Shaper. I was thinking I could go without a router table, but now im not sure. I will say I am starting fresh, no router bits, so i guess i could invest in shaper tooling only. But i have never used one so i am flying blind.

Going without a router table was part of my justification on spending this much on the combo machine. I guess I may need to find another rationalization!

Thanks again!!

Hi, get a machine that will take router bits and shaper cutters.

I bought a machine with a tilting spindle, that really opens up what you can do with a shaper, without having to purchase expensive single function tooling.

With a tilting spindle ( I bought 1.25" and 30mm spindles), I can share cutters between the saw and shaper. When I need a bevel I just tilt the spindle to the desired angle.

A 40mm Euroblock with limiters and a 50mm X 125mm or 100mm carbide rebate head and method of grooving (share with saw) and you're set for almost every function.

HSS knives and limiters are less than $50 for the set and produce far better work and last far longer than router bits in solid wood.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Many Thanks

[mark mcfarlane]

For anyone considering using router bits in a Minimax shaper, I suggest you look at negotiating the price of a router spindle during the initial machine purchase. When I checked in 2015 a 1/2" router collet spindle was around $700. That price drove me to purchase a separate router lift/table.

The Incra fence system on my router table is so much better than the stock hood/fence that comes with a CU300, which doesn't have calibrated micro-adjustments.

[David Hawxhurst]

That's probably the best video yet on how to level a sliding saw table. Mine is a Felder but followed the same steps. The one thing that help me level my sliding table without going crazy was to set the level when the slider bearing are centered over the leveling bolt sets. Start with the middle and work you way out to the ends. Once I learned this level the table was much easier and fairly quick. Forgot where I learned that trick but it makes life easier.

[Chris Parks]

I have the CU300 SMART, and agree with the items Mark listed, and will add one more, small nit: When I retract the TS fence so the tip does not go past leading edge of the blade, it is then 'rear heavy' which means it wants to tilt up in the air. At least until it is locked in place. But it means a two handed operation (and could be solved by me loping off part of the fence to shorten it, but not sure I want to go there).

I find the dust collection on the TS to be average at best unless the DC on the overhead guard is used.

They may all be this way, but in order to use the planer the TS fence also needs to be removed to allow the jointer tables to swing up.

Overall I like it and it allows me to have several machines in a small space.

I bought a new length of fence and cut it up because ot was too long (K3 Hammer) I then sold the left over bits to others who wanted the same thing.

[Jordan Lane]

That's probably the best video yet on how to level a sliding saw table. Mine is a Felder but followed the same steps. The one thing that help me level my sliding table without going crazy was to set the level when the slider bearing are centered over the leveling bolt sets. Start with the middle and work you way out to the ends. Once I learned this level the table was much easier and fairly quick. Forgot where I learned that trick but it makes life easier.

David how can you determine when the bearings are over the adjustment bolts...i;ve seen this tip before but could never figure out how to see the position of the bearings...i to have a Felder

[David Hawxhurst]

David how can you determine when the bearings are over the adjustment bolts...i;ve seen this tip before but could never figure out how to see the position of the bearings...i to have a Felder

It's a pain. You'll need a flashlight. You have to look down the underside of the slider to see them. Once you know where they are at you can look up into the slider from the side to ensure that they are centered over the jacking points. Once I figured out were the bearing carriages were centered over the jacking points I used some painters tape to mark the location on the slider table. This make it easy to return to that point while leveling the table. I want to say that there were four key positions I used while leveling the sliders. This is also a good time to set your slider toe.

[Chris Parks]

I would be interested in the thinking behind centring the bearings, I would think if the bearings were centred and the table hanging off one end then any equalisation of weight would be lost. On a short stroke slider I doubt the need to centre anything but it makes sense to do so.

[Chris Parks]

Mark, can you link to the level you used for the video please. I have a Starret and the adjustment is a PIA compared to yours. I could not quite work out what you called the level when you referred to it in the video.

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark, can you link to the level you used for the video please. I have a Starret and the adjustment is a PIA compared to yours. I could not quite work out what you called the level when you referred to it in the video.

Hi Chris. The level I use in the video is a Shars 12" Master Precisions Level (https://www.shars.com/12-master-precisions-level) SKU: 303-9503. It was recommended by a few others here on SMC. They are $20 off right now (the same discount I got 6 weeks ago, so maybe they are always on sale), which in essence covers the cost of shipping.

[Chris Parks]

​Thanks Mark, now to see if they ship to Oz and how much

[mark mcfarlane]

​Thanks Mark, now to see if they ship to Oz and how much

I'm pretty sure there are SCMI/Minimax distributors in Australia, I have seen some Minimax posts here in SMC.

[David Hawxhurst]

I would be interested in the thinking behind centring the bearings, I would think if the bearings were centred and the table hanging off one end then any equalisation of weight would be lost. On a short stroke slider I doubt the need to centre anything but it makes sense to do so.

Well centering the bearings over the load bearing points/jacking bolts seems to make the leveling easier as this is the point at which the bearings are passing over a fixed point loaded or unloaded. It seems to help with the leveling as everything is traveling in a straight line and not a wavy motion in the slider table which is sort of what i had prior to doing it this way. Just for reference my slider is 9 ft.

[Chris Parks]

Centreing the weight of the table over the base I can inderstand and and on a 9 foot slider I would think almost mandatory but to have the bearings centred and all that eight hanging off the end does not sound good but I have never done nor do I own a slider that big so experience trumps theory and thanks for taking the time to reply to my question.

[Frank Martin]

Mark,
I will watch your video as I had to figure it out myself mostly when I went through the process with my CU300. One issue I still have is that my crosscut fence is no longer square to the blade when I tilt the blade to 45 degrees to make miter cuts. It is perfectly square when the blade is in the normal cutting position of 90 degrees to the table. Did you have to make this adjustment on your machine?

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark,
I will watch your video as I had to figure it out myself mostly when I went through the process with my CU300. One issue I still have is that my crosscut fence is no longer square to the blade when I tilt the blade to 45 degrees to make miter cuts. It is perfectly square when the blade is in the normal cutting position of 90 degrees to the table. Did you have to make this adjustment on your machine?

Hi Frank,

The only adjustment I know of to square cuts is on the outrigger for the crosscut fence.

I can't envision how a crosscut cut with the blade at 90 degrees gives a different angle on the crosscut when you tilt the blade unless the wood is sliding on the outrigger during the cut. Did you clamp the wood for both the vertical and tilted blade cuts?

[Frank Martin]

Hi Frank,

The only adjustment I know of to square cuts is on the outrigger for the crosscut fence.

I can't envision how a crosscut cut with the blade at 90 degrees gives a different angle on the crosscut when you tilt the blade unless the wood is sliding on the outrigger during the cut. Did you clamp the wood for both the vertical and tilted blade cuts?

Hi Mark,

I think you are right about clamping. I usually don't clamp using the hold downs instead use my hands. Thinking about the cutting action when the blade is titled, it is possible that the wood shifts. Thanks for pointing this out, I will give it a try over the weekend.

I watched your video last night, it is great. Love the fact that it is not "produced". It is easy to follow without frills and unnecessary background sounds. I will go over my machine using the steps you outlined.

[mark mcfarlane]

...

I watched your video last night, it is great. Love the fact that it is not "produced". It is easy to follow without frills and unnecessary background sounds. I will go over my machine using the steps you outlined.

Thanks Frank. I had a concise 10 minute goal but ended up at 15 minutes. A few parts might go a tad too fast, the intro is maybe a little slow. I'm learning and appreciate your feedback.