Tablesaw injuries

[Michael Callender]

In your opinion are tablesaw injuries more likely to occur. With someone with say many years of experience. Or someone who has maybe a year experience. Is it due to everyday use and odds of injuries goes up. Or for the Person lacks the experience. Just a thought.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Most probable when people have small or none understanding of the tool... of course it also occurs afterwards mainly when people get excessive confidence in their skills.

[Frederick Skelly]

Most probable when people have small or none understanding of the tool... of course it also occurs afterwards mainly when people get excessive confidence in their skills.

+1. Osvaldo made both points that I was thinking about.

[Joe Bradshaw]

It can happen in both groups. That split second of in-attention is what gets you. I have trimmed fingers on both hands over the years.
Joe

[Ron Citerone]

Most probable when people have small or none understanding of the tool... of course it also occurs afterwards mainly when people get excessive confidence in their skills.


I agree. In addition, I think people who buy a saw and don't have any training from a very experienced person is at a higher risk on both accounts.

[Tom M King]

Just listing personal experience, so not worth much, as only one example. I've used a tablesaw almost daily, as a pro, for 45 years, and some before that. I've never once used one with so much as a splitter on it, or any other safety device. Knock on wood, but so far, not even a nick. I do know when to quit working for the day though. I also almost never use one for crosscutting.

[Jon Barnett]

Injuries can happen to anyone. I know of a professional carpenter and cabinet maker with many years' experience who has sustained TS injuries twice in the last couple of years. Time pressure, momentary inattention, lack of safety protocol can have serious consequences.

I started out in carpentry using a small Makita table saw. This tool essentially had a handsaw motor in it, and we did crazy things with it on site. However, the motor was weak enough that you could power through many activities with fairly small risk.

When I finally achieved my dream of having my own woodshop, I purchased a General 350 cabinet saw. The power of that tool is in another world, and I had to learn to be much more careful when cutting smaller pieces, etc. As I've aged, and spend intermittent time in the shop, I need to mentally be sharper to avoid accidents when doing unfamiliar tasks. I often run through what I want to accomplish in my mind, and may choose an alternate tool, jig, or method to prevent injuries.

Repetitive tasks are some of the most dangerous, if concentration falters.

[Jerome Stanek]

Even with the safest saw out there you can still be injured. I had a kick back that I needed stitches for it happened just as I started to feed a piece that I had a stacked dado set in

[Jim Andrew]

Really helps if you have had training from an instructor who is all about safety. When I went to Fort Hays State U, the instructor was Glen Ginther, and it was about safety first, and how to do the job safely. Has benefited me greatly over the years.

[John TenEyck]

I'll wager that most TS injuries happen on saws where the safety devices have been removed.

John

[Steve Demuth]

Power tool injuries, per hour of exposure, are clearly more likely with those inexperienced and untrained. But, as others have pointed out, they don't go to zero in any group. A factory environment with real attention to all aspects of safety - training, maintenance, procedures, devices - will get very close to zero over long periods of time, and is probably the safest place these tools are used. Experienced, attentive small shops next. Carpenter crews that hire anyone they can lay hands on and weekend warriors who have used a new tool for only a few hours and never received or sought training are basically accidents waiting to happen. Most will still get through with near misses until they learn the tool and habits required, but a lot will not.

Our ER records at the hospital bear this out. Not many injuries from the numerous furniture factories and mills in the area, a steady stream from job sites and garages.

[Mike Cutler]

OSHA and emergency room data will support that the operator at both ends of the equation are the most at risk.
Training and knowledge are key components in preventing injury from the operator perspective, and I have always ben thankful that I had actual classroom, or "wood shop" training. It may have only been in Jr. and High School, a zillion years ago, but I'm glad I have it.


"I'll wager that most TS injuries happen on saws where the safety devices have been removed. "

I would have to modify this sentence to read as follows to agree completely with it:
I'll wager that most TS injuries happen on saws when the properly designed safety devices have been removed.

I'm sorry, but many of the devices I see, especially a stock guard and splitter for a table saw, are very poorly designed and constructed. They are there to limit liability more than actual injury.

[Jim Becker]

In most cases, tool accidents are mental mistakes (including being tired or distracted or rushed), so it can happen to anybody at any time. But risk does increase when folks either don't know and understand the risk or don't know and understand how to best mitigate it when working with their tools.

[Matt Day]

It happens to an experienced user who is overconfident or gets distracted. It happens to an inexperienced user who lacks knowledge or gets distracted.

So pay attention, with whatever machine you’re using! And if you don’t know what you’re doing or are unsure, stop and educate yourself. Simple as that I think.

[Carl Beckett]

Two primary components to your question:

An inexperienced user or user that has removed safety devices would be a higher rate of incident per unit of use. But may not use it that much.

A more careful and experienced person with all the safety mechanisms in place would be a lower incident per unit of use. But may use it a lot.

They may (or may not) end up with similar accident rates.

Then other combinations thereof. (A very reckless/inexperienced user with no safety guards that uses it constantly might have the highest rate).

We used to use a term: "statistical inevitability"

Some of the industrial settings post 'days without an accident' and promote complete safety and training, etc etc. And yet, accidents do still happen.

(I also drive a car. And for many years, a motorcycle. "If you give up cigarettes, whiskey, and women you dont live any longer.... it just seems longer...." So imo some level of risk is part of life)

[Lee Schierer]

In most cases, tool accidents are mental mistakes (including being tired or distracted or rushed), so it can happen to anybody at any time. But risk does increase when folks either don't know and understand the risk or don't know and understand how to best mitigate it when working with their tools.

I agree with this completely. I've had one injury when using a TS and that was many years ago. I needed to make four cuts and I felt a problem on the first one. Instead of stopping and thinking about what I was doing. I was in a hurry and I ignored the warning in my head and got bit on the second cut. It was several weeks bofore I could make a new piece and complete the last three cuts.

I know lots of folks do free hand cuts on table saws and many claim they have never been injured. I will state categorically that free hand cutting on a TS is Dangerous and eventually you will get injured. Before making any cut you need to walk through the process with the saw turned on and see where your hands will be in relation to the blade and where teh cut off will go once your hand isn't controlling it.

Here are some guidelines I try to follow:

If you aren't 100% comfortable making a cut, find another way to do it.
Quit working if you are tired or distracted by other things in life.
Never work when you are angry.
If you make more than one mistake in a session, it is time to quit.
Always make sure your push sticks are handy before starting a cut.
When using feather boards, make sure you can complete the cut.

[glenn bradley]

Just to be clear, most tablesaw injuries are just that, injuries. They are not accidents; they are the result of improper operation. The amazing numbers thrown around for tablesaw (and other tool) "accidents" is misleading and a blatant spin on statistics. There may be accounts of a tablesaw throwing off parts due to some freakish sequence of occurrences and this sort of thing would be an accident. So far as I know there is no reliable account of a tablesaw lunging at someone, having the blade suddenly veer off course or grabbing material and throwing it back at the operator all on its own :). Sorry to be snide but, the whole "your tablesaw attacked me" thing really lights me up.

Was that too serious? :o

[Jim Dwight]

I've been making sawdust as a hobby for over 40 years. I've never been cut on a table saw but I have received stiches 3 times from power tool injuries. The first time was a biscuit joiner when I tried to cut too small a piece. I miscut one and didn't have more maple. Still was very stupid to try and recut it.

Last two times were at the end of long days when I should have quit. I pushed through and it didn't work out well. A cordless reciprocating saw jumped into my hand - not sure exactly what happened. Then the next day I decided to try and work semi-one handed and badly cut my right index finger using my right to hold the work and left to operate the saw (left was injured). Could have easily done the cut safely but I didn't take the time, I was tired. Just wanted to get done. That finger is still messed up.

I bought a SawStop and I like it but a table saw is not more dangerous than other tools but it does get a lot of use. The SawStop adds a bit of margin but there are still ways to get hurt with it and many other tools that will cut me if I do something stupid again.

I guess it's possible to not know how to use your tools but that was not my problem. Not using safety guards was not my problem. Doing something stupid I knew not to do was my problem. Hard to fix stupid. But pushing past weariness is a bad idea and contributes significantly to stupid, at least in my case.

[Michael Callender]

My woodworking is strictly a hobby. I don’t have deadlines or any kind of time constraints. Except when my wife wants something. Maybe when you’re on a schedule to Finnish something for a customer. You might be more at risk with that in the equation.

[Michael Callender]

Tom King said he almost never uses a tablesaw for cross cuts. I would rather use my miter saw for any cross cuts. Since the tablesaw I have has very little room to start a cross cut. I had a tablesaw from the early 60s. And I thought that table top was small. Tom what is your reason for not doing any cross cuts on a tablesaw.

[Tom M King]

I have two Radial Arm saws, and a sliding miter saw. One RAS stays set up for accurate crosscuts. The other RAS stays setup for dadoes. I just never saw any benefit to crosscutting on a table saw. It always made me especially uncomfortable watching people crosscut using a sled with no safety box on the back. My fingers never get close to a spinning blade, and absolutely never over, or behind the blade on a table saw.

I do this for a living, but never had a boss. I don't do estimates, or deadlines, so no pressure to push too hard.

[Steve Demuth]

Just to be clear, most tablesaw injuries are just that, injuries. They are not accidents; they are the result of improper operation. The amazing numbers thrown around for tablesaw (and other tool) "accidents" is misleading and a blatant spin on statistics. There may be accounts of a tablesaw throwing off parts due to some freakish sequence of occurrences and this sort of thing would be an accident. So far as I know there is no reliable account of a tablesaw lunging at someone, having the blade suddenly veer off course or grabbing material and throwing it back at the operator all on its own :). Sorry to be snide but, the whole "your tablesaw attacked me" thing really lights me up.

I hear this all the time in many contexts - "it's not an accident, because someone was doing something stupid that caused it."

Here's the first meaning of the word accident in the Oxford dictionary: An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury."

I highly doubt that very many people start a cut on a table saw expecting or intending to be hurt. So, with respect, I think you're distinguishing between preventable accidents, and force majeur accidents. Both are accidents by the common definition of the word.

[John Blazy]

Great breakdown by Steve and Glenn. I'm like Tom King - nearly 40 years using the tablesaw daily, as professional with all the pressures to make a living, not hobby, and have over 100 stitches in both hands to prove it (but no lost digits - Thank God). Ditto to all thats been said, except the insistance on guards - can't do many operations with guards in place - first thing removed from my unisaw. I will add these two insights: one - hope you get bit by some machine someday, and I hope its not bad, but I do hope it happens, because nothing will slow you down to hyper focus on safe cutting more than after you first get cut from a machine. You literally learn a hyper awareness of the space between the blade and your fingers, and can likely detect any blade location even with your eyes closed.
Second - don't cut styrofoam, just don't. Use a razor knife. Even during the rush of shipping. Principle is true for any unique material other than wood. Lexan plastic is also super dangerous - sticks to rear of blade, grabs easily, unpredictable. Learn alternative ways to cut too, like push in pc half way through, pull out, then flip end over end and cut til it meets in middle - no need for push stick then, and quite safe.

[glenn bradley]

I hear this all the time in many contexts - "it's not an accident, because someone was doing something stupid that caused it."

Here's the first meaning of the word accident in the Oxford dictionary: An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury."

I highly doubt that very many people start a cut on a table saw expecting or intending to be hurt. So, with respect, I think you're distinguishing between preventable accidents, and force majeur accidents. Both are accidents by the common definition of the word.

I do have too strong an opinion on this and I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way. I'm speaking of the many "accidents" that result from using a tablesaw while drinking beer, assigning an unskilled worker to use a tablesaw on a job site, not setting your saw up correctly and getting kickback, doing operations that are beyond the scope of your particular model, doing "just one last thing so I didn't bother with the push block", that kind of stuff. If I approach a machine that I am unfamiliar with, and I am unsure of its state of readiness for an operation, something going wrong is not unexpected, it is likely.

If I am reasonably able to use a machine safely and a tooth flies off a blade, a bearing seizes up, a trunnion fails, etc. I would certainly call that an accident. Tomato, tomato; just don't jack up my insurance rates because "tablesaw are statistically unsafe" :)

[Mike Kees]

I agree with john ,styrafoam is the most dangerous stuff I have ever cut on a table saw. Kickbacks like crazy. Plastic laminate is also another hazardous material to cut on a t.s. It can catch and shatter. In 30 years or so I have had two serious kickbacks,thankfully the long skinny one went by me and stuck in the wall. The reason it went by was my training from shop class days to stand off to the left side of blade. Other one was a nearly square piece of plywood 20" x20" or so. This drilled me in the abdomen,big dark bruise and sore for a while. Fingers have never contacted a blade. Again I would credit this to my shop training and good push stick design and use.

[Matt Mattingley]

I am instructor and I preach safety first. I have a saw stop in one of my shops. I also have a Wadkin PK in a other.

The first thing is it is way too many people remove guards.
The second thing is way too many people don’t have a healthy respect.
The third thing is healthy respect goes away with confidence.

I instruct proper body position, proper guarding, proper push stick operations, proper hand placement,.....

In my personal opinion, a sliding table saw is way safer (when properly trained) than any basic cabinet saw.

I really wish weekend warriors took a two hour course before jumping behind the wheel Of a machine that can cause finger amputation or bodily injury.

[Zac wingert]

Cut my right thumb making repetitive cuts.

[Jacob Reverb]

Most common mistake with table saws that I see (and it seems like I see it a LOT) is people standing behind the blade.

Another one that never would have occurred to me if I hadn't seen my brother (a career home builder) do it, was reaching over the blade to try to "pull" the workpiece through.

With the first mistake, a kickback will lead to a nasty bruise or impalement...with the second mistake, possibly a missing thumb.

I grew up using table saws without any guards. My father thought (and I tend to agree) that many of them obscure your view of what's going on where the rubber meets the road...

[andy bessette]

I believe that, when operators place too much reliance on guards, aids and technology to keep them safe, they are more apt to be injured, particularly if they are easily distracted and have difficulty keeping their head in the game. For example, in an effort to keep their hands well away from the blade, some operators make scary use of push sticks and give up good control of the workpiece.

[Rod Sheridan]

Most common mistake with table saws that I see (and it seems like I see it a LOT) is people standing behind the blade.

Another one that never would have occurred to me if I hadn't seen my brother (a career home builder) do it, was reaching over the blade to try to "pull" the workpiece through.

With the first mistake, a kickback will lead to a nasty bruise or impalement...with the second mistake, possibly a missing thumb.

I grew up using table saws without any guards. My father thought (and I tend to agree) that many of them obscure your view of what's going on where the rubber meets the road...

Hi Jacob, I often hear people comment about not being able to see what's happening when using guards.

I'm not sure why you want to see what's happening? I guarantee the blade is cutting, just like when you use a straight line rip, gang saw or saw with a feeder, you don't have to watch what's happening.

If you really want to watch, install a proper guard that gives good visibility...........Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Part of the challenge with guards is the design of many of the guards. The ideal setup is a riving knife and an over-arm guard so that both through cuts and non-through cuts can be completed without removing the gear. That's not the case with a huge percentage of table saw that are actively being used every day. It's true in my shop, too...the blade guard that came with my particular sliding table saw attaches to the riving knife and therefore, it must be removed for non-through cuts. It's also not clear so it does interfere with sight-lines, although I agree that if a cut is setup properly, it's not necessary to actually "see" the blade making the cut to make the cut, if you catch my drift. When I had a true over-arm guard on my previous saw, it stayed in place 99% of the time. (Of course, that saw didn't have a riving knife...but that was the generation of machinery it came from) I do plan on rectifying this at some point and fortunately, I use my slider such that most of my cuts do not have my hands near the blade and those that do have the fence in the low setting and an appropriate push block/stick in use. I almost never feed material with just my hand. But you know what...despite the care I take, I could still have an incident just like anyone else can experience the same. "Stuff" happens...

[John TenEyck]

Training in how to perform operations safely is different from safety devices or focus on the task at hand. Each is important to minimizing risk. Deficiency in any is typically when an injury happens.

People tend to have their minds made up on safety devices, whether guards on their TS or seatbelts in their car. Personally, I will use every one of those devices. Any slight inconvenience during use is more than offset by the reduced risk of a life altering incident.

John

[Jacob Reverb]

Hi Jacob, I often hear people comment about not being able to see what's happening when using guards.

I'm not sure why you want to see what's happening? I guarantee the blade is cutting, just like when you use a straight line rip, gang saw or saw with a feeder, you don't have to watch what's happening.

Hey, Rod. Well, for example, I want to know if the kerf is closing on the blade like a brake caliper so I'll know to expect burning and possible trouble. Or if the workpiece is lifting up away from the blade, same thing. Plastics love to do this...


If you really want to watch, install a proper guard that gives good visibility...........Regards, Rod.

I guess I'm not up to date on the guards available...kinda learned without guards and it it ain't broke...

Thanks for your reply.

J

[Michael Callender]

I recently bought a new tablesaw it came with all the safety items. This is my first tablesaw that has the spilter and a blade guard. My point is now that I have the safety items. It would make sense to me to at least try to use them. And if I find it’s more difficult to use the blade guard. Then I will cross that bridge when I get to it. I am all about safety as is everyone else. I get the impression it’s the individuals experience that ultimately decides how to proceed with the task.

[Michael Callender]

Ps I just got back from Lowe’s and bought a plastic miter box. I think I will do more by hand when I can.

[John TenEyck]

Nothing wrong with using hand tools. Everything was made that way at one time, and the work some of those craftsmen turned out is as good as anything ever made with power tools. To augment the miter box you bought, you should go over to the Neanderthal forum and learn about shooting boards. A miter box gets you close; using a shooting board to follow gets you perfection.

John

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jacob, one of my saws (General 650) had a steel and aluminum guard.

A clear plastic guard will allow you to see what's happening while reducing the risk of injury.

Although you indicated not to fix what isn't broken, your lack of a guard is a broken approach, it would be good to fix as anything that helps you stay safe and keep working is a good thing

Regards, Rod.

[Andrew Joiner]

I can only go by my own experience.
At age 8 I was allowed to buy a used table saw if I promised to only run it when someone was home! I said why? Dad said so we can rush you to the hospital if you cut off fingers! Enough said. I now had tremendous respect and curiosity about this powerful tool.
No one ever showed me how to use it. Never saw someone use one. But I studied the heck out every Popular Mechanics magazine I ever got my hands on. Luckily I've never been hurt by the many table saws I've had in 60 years. Many of those years I was a pro with deadlines.