Finding the right dovetail square: Ordered a Vesper

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have done lots of hand cut dovetails and I decided to step out of my comfort zone (Chris), and cut some through mortises. I am not done yet, but, they are roughly 2" by 1/2". I wanted to make sure that I was cutting through squarely so I went looking through my collection of stuff.

It feels like I own lots of squares; but I know people (Steve) who have demonstrate that I do not know the meaning of "lots". That said, my narrowest blade is probably 3/4". None of these were working well because the blades were just too big.

It was difficult for me to find something smaller. I went to a Rockler and a Woodcraft store, and neither had what I wanted. The best they had was a Starrett 14D Double Steel Square (https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-14D-Double-Square-Hardened/dp/B000VDTDTU) with a single blade; the largest one shown at the Amazon link. I already own a Lee Valley 4" precision double square (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=44279&cat=1,42936), I really like it, but, it is just too wide for this.

The Lee Valley small double square (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72730&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1) was a lead contender. It is well reviewed, and the price is right.

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Although this would work for me, what I really wanted was to have both of those blades and then one more that did not have two different sizes. You know, like what Vesper tools sells

https://www.vespertools.com.au/vesper-squares/precision-double-squares/

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Someone pointed out on the forum here that you can also buy that from Highland woodworking (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/vesper-double-square.aspx).

Some people that I respect greatly love that little square from Vesper tools. For example, Patrick Chase (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/vesper-double-square.aspx) and
Derek Cohen (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?264434-Brief-Review-LV-Small-Double-Square). I would probably have been happy with the Lee Valley version, but, I really wanted that third blade.

Now I wait and see how long it takes to arrive.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the Lee Valley and it works well for me. But if I didnt already own two 4" and one 6" small double square, Id have bought the Sterling or Vesper to get "full functionality". :) Both have great reputations.

Edit (and off topic): But you can't have enough good squares. So I still may buy that 2" x 2" Bridge City triangle (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=77192&cat=51&ap=1)that LV just started selling for $23. And they have free shipping over $40 right now.

Let us know how you like your Vesper!
Fred

[Andrew Pitonyak]

For sure I will let y'all know how I like the square.

The bridge city triangle looks interesting, and the price is right. The closest I have to that is the Woodpeckers DelVe Square
https://www.woodpeck.com/delve-square-15.html?_bta_tid=3.h1M.CEdIXw.FkJR.AVAxqQ..AqJ1hg. b..l.BtDZ.a.VZXCcA.VZXCcA.tBrviQ&_bta_c=452f2mhvzi729cbnnwi5ubt92yx3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogajfMexD1c

[Mike Henderson]

Wow, that's a spendy square - $180 for the set. I went with the Sterling blade in a double square.

Mike

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Wow, that's a spendy square - $180 for the set. I went with the Sterling blade in a double square.

Mike
And if they had that third blade I would have done the same..... They don't do they? If so, I guess I spent more than I needed, but, I hear the Vesper is very nice.

[Frederick Skelly]

And if they had that third blade I would have done the same..... They don't do they? If so, I guess I spent more than I needed, but, I hear the Vesper is very nice.

It is definitely "spendy". But if it arrives, and it's exactly what you want, then it's worth it. I look carefully at significant purchases, and when I can afford it, I never regret getting the thing I wanted.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Andrew

You will love the little Vesper double square. All Chris' tools, and espcially this one, are jewel-like. He is such a perfectionist - not just in the quality of construction, such as its precision and accuracy, but also the way it should handle. Small details ... such as the knurled adjustment nut ... are a number of levels above the Starrett version I have.

If any here are interested in photos and more description, go to the link Andrew provides above (the forum discussion after my name).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Parks]

Now is definitely the time to buy from Oz due to the exchange rate.

[Stewie Simpson]

Chris; it also works the other way with the exchange rate. Now is not the time to buy from the USA if you reside in the au.

Stewie;

[Chris Parks]

I think I worked that out a few years ago Stewie, talk about the bleedin' obvious everyone in Oz has worked it out.

[michael langman]

I bought the Starrett diemakers square many years ago for work in the tool room. It is adjustable for checking clearance angles in dies.
Not something you used every day, but nice to have when needed.
I just got a starrett 236 on ebay for 29.00 and am hoping to use that for dovetails if it is square enough, and I can adjust the blade at slighter angles then 30,45 and 90 degrees.
Enjoy your new tool Andrew. Vesper makes nice tools for sure.

[Jim Koepke]

It is definitely "spendy". But if it arrives, and it's exactly what you want, then it's worth it. I look carefully at significant purchases, and when I can afford it, I never regret getting the thing I wanted.

+1 on this!

As long as SWMBO says it is okay, what does it matter what anyone else says? :D

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I have the Lee Valley double square. It is a good tool.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’ll second third fourth or whatever it is Chirs’s tools are worth every penny as they are both functional and designed to the highest degree and built the same.

Imop I’d pay ten times what he wants just to support someone still interested in a job well done.

I’ve had a number of tools backordered for him for well over a year now and I’ll wait till the cows come home.

To be hi est I often wonder how the heck the guy makes ends meet as how many of these tools can he really sell and they sure seem to take a while to produce so...

I’m just happy to know I’m doing a tiny part to support so,done doing what makes them happy.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I bought the Starrett diemakers square many years ago for work in the tool room. It is adjustable for checking clearance angles in dies.
Not something you used every day, but nice to have when needed.
I just got a starrett 236 on ebay for 29.00 and am hoping to use that for dovetails if it is square enough, and I can adjust the blade at slighter angles then 30,45 and 90 degrees.
Enjoy your new tool Andrew. Vesper makes nice tools for sure.

I bought the same tool, as new, with the box (machinist/toolmakers take excellent of their tools). Cost was $40.00, purchased from the guy who puts out a "for sale" list of tools, the first Monday of each month, and was the subject of a thread here. Hint, his last name begins with a L, ends with a H and has three other letters in between, E, A, C.

That tiny die-makers square is the equal of any out there.

[michael langman]

That was a great deal Tony. It is quite sad the resale prices on machinists tools these days. I have thousands of dollars in tools and am not looking forward to when I sell them.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have the Lee Valley double square. It is a good tool.

Do you mean the precision double square (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=44279&cat=1,42936), I have the 4" and love it? or do you mean the "small double square" with the smaller "dovetail" blade (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72730&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1)? I almost bought the small one but was afraid that I would then keep thinking "I wish I had that third blade".

[Mike Henderson]

Do you mean the precision double square (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=44279&cat=1,42936), I have the 4" and love it? or do you mean the "small double square" with the smaller "dovetail" blade (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72730&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1)? I almost bought the small one but was afraid that I would then keep thinking "I wish I had that third blade".

An alternate to that Lee Valley precision double square is one made by PEC (Precision Equipment Corporation, I believe). They're an American company. Their products are a bit expensive but you can find PEC blem double squares on eBay for about $25 to $30. They've very accurate and have a good "feel" - better than the iGaging double squares.

Mike

[Brian Holcombe]

Chris Vesper’s work is top notch, I’d buy it ahead of Starrett.

This says it all right here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX4o5cKlz0h/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=2unxjwauybfj

That’s the work of a perfectionist. In fact if I’m not mistaken he built the fixture for checking himself.

[Patrick Walsh]

I have a Starrett combo square that was purchased for me as a gift and is way out of square. Yeah I know I should have returned it.




Chris Vesper’s work is top notch, I’d buy it ahead of Starrett.

This says it all right here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX4o5cKlz0h/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=2unxjwauybfj

That’s the work of a perfectionist. In fact if I’m not mistaken he built the fixture for checking himself.

[Tony Zaffuto]

One of the Starrett issues to contend with, is there was a period of time where they went to the Pacific Rim, for manufacturing, which has ended. As far as I know, the imported tools had no mention of country of origin on them. For the most part, the perceived quality was no different than domestic, though a few bad ones slipped through, and may still be hovering out in "supply land". However, those machinists that found out about this (a decade ago now), did not like it.

I do remember purchasing several 24" rules for a Starrett combination square at the PATINA sale in Damascus, MD (coming up on March 16th, IIRC). The rules were marked Starrett, but no made in Athol, MA on them, so I assumed they were imported, but were accurate and worked with my combo square head. At $10.00 each, they were a steal!

[Tony Wilkins]

Anybody able to compare the sterling square with dovetail blade and the lee valley square?

[Mike Henderson]

Anybody able to compare the sterling square with dovetail blade and the lee valley square?

I posted a comparison of the two here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?271428-Tips-for-paring-dovetail-lap-lines-like-shown-in-Kirby&p=2892194&highlight=#post2892194), post number 12.

It's my opinion.

Mike

[Andrew Pitonyak]

It came today. My initial impressions are listed here in a new thread:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?271947-Unpacking-my-Vesper-small-dovetail-square

Really love it!

[Tony Wilkins]

I posted a comparison of the two here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?271428-Tips-for-paring-dovetail-lap-lines-like-shown-in-Kirby&p=2892194&highlight=#post2892194), post number 12.

It's my opinion.

Mike

tend to forget things with my brain rattling around the old noggin. Thanks for linking it. I was wondering about the size of the dovetail blade.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

tend to forget things with my brain rattling around the old noggin. Thanks for linking it. I was wondering about the size of the dovetail blade.

With the Vesper, all blades are 3" long.

The blade height for the dovetail blade is between 1/8" and 3/16". The thinner end is about 1/16" less so just a bit over 1/16" tall.

That narrow end is roughly 1 1/8" long.

So, now you know for the vesper.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

My Sterling version disappeared during my last class (I think it was inadvertently swept up in piles of shavings). I miss it terribly, and am saving my pennies for the Vesper to replace it. It's a great tool!

[Tony Wilkins]

My Sterling version disappeared during my last class (I think it was inadvertently swept up in piles of shavings). I miss it terribly, and am saving my pennies for the Vesper to replace it. It's a great tool!

Sorry to hear it. I someday hope to get a Vesper sliding bevel but I just don’t think I can spend the coin on that square. It looks like a Sterling should be ordered soon.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

Anybody able to compare the sterling square with dovetail blade and the lee valley square?

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/lee-valley-small-double-square-2/

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks a lot.

[Tony Zaffuto]

As I previously posted, I have the Starrett die-maker's square, adjustable to (IIRC) 10 degrees. With that said, I stand n absolute wonderment how so many, now and in years past, were able to do such beautiful (and precuse) work, without the aid of ultra precision instruments?