Tablesaw blade guard use

[roy knapp]

Well all tablesaw that come with the manufactures
blade guard.

How many of us use them. I have had thin off cuts when ripping become momentarily traped between the blade and the manufactures guard and suddenly it would be fired back like spear once the main piece was passed through in out the back.

I still use the Splitter and Anti kick pawls when ripping. Extra caution used and feather boards. Have all ten and gona keep em.:) :)

[tod evans]

i don`t have guards on any of my circular saws. but i have been leaving the rivving knife on the panel saw since it doesn`t get in the way. .02 tod

[Frank Pellow]

I never even installed the guard and splitter on my General 650. I do use an MJ Splitter.

[Travis Porter]

Have a PM 66 for around 10 years and I have never installed the guard. Piece of junk. No splitter either which I am beginning to regret. I have been looking at some of the after market stuff that has dust collection. I thought a great deal last night about builiding one myself and just buying an aftermarket splitter. I like the Biesemeyer, but it is definitely not cheap and if I can get the steel to support it, I can possibly make one??

[scott bonder]

I had a U.S. type contracotr saw for years and almost never used the guard. Too finiky and lame. Also got rid of the stupid splitter and pawls. It was too darned far away from the blade (or, I had to raise the blade way too high). I did finally make out of lexan and some aluminum poles a guard that was attached to my ceiling and covered the blade nicely. It worked well for along time.

When I moved my shop out of the basement and into the garage, I realized that I was too darned cramped with all the tools I had, so I sold them and got a Felder combo. Now I use the guard 90% of the time. It is easy, has good dust collection and is almost never in the way.

Now, if that Forstner bit and hand held drill i used this weekend (don't ask me why I thought it was a good idea at the time as "thinking" was not involved) had a guard, maybe half of the skin on my thumb would not be a hanging flap.

[Roy Wall]

I use mine on all thru cuts......it is attached to the riving knife.

[Jim Becker]

The OEM guards/splitters leave a lot to be desired and unfortunately are cumbersome to remove and reinstall...which is why so many folks don't use them. Mine "went away" before even getting installed on the saw once back in 2000 when I bought the machine. However, I religiously use my Biesemeyer snap-in splitter for all through cuts with few exceptions and use my overarm guard/collection when it is practical to do so for added safety. I will admit that the guard gets used less than it probably should, but the splitter is on the saw all the time.

[Todd Franks]

I had the manufacturer's guard/splitter on my cabinet saw for about 6 months and not considering dust collection it worked just fine. However, I found it cumbersome to take on and off. The first time I didn't put it back on because of it being so time consuming, I bought a Biesemeyer aftermarket splitter and built my own overarm guard. This solution is much more convenient and I use it 99% of the time (dado and sled cuts excluded). Other times I use my Grr-ripper.

[Steve Schoene]

I never use the guard, but religiously use my Biesemeyer splitter and finger boards on my Unisaw when possible. I have a couple of Brett guards I could use, but I found them to be awkward and made too many cuts complicated to push through the saw cleanly. And the Beisemeyer splitter is much better than the pretty lame anti-kickback fingers on the Brett.

[Mike Circo]

ALWAYS used it. The only time the guard and splitter are off are for special cuts (dados for example. I've never had an off cut spit back at me. A few have spun against the blade, but that is all.

I don't understand the hatred for the stock guards and splitters. Removal takes all of two minutes, tops. I have numerous instances where either the guard or splitter has saved me from a potental problem. I will continue to use these habitually.

[Frank Pellow]

Folks, you might be interested in a the following poll that we conducted a while ago: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20433

[Jim DeLaney]

I use the Delta Uniguard, and Delta removeable splitter on my ShopFox cabinet saw. For non-through cuts, or cuts that require me to use the Grripper®, I use a lower, shop-made splitter that replaces the Delta.

The only cuts that I make without a splitter are dados, and I <U>do</U> use the Uniguard, even then.

[Ole Anderson]

After seeing Norm and Mark on TV (never using a guard, or even a splitter), I knew I needed a TS so I got a Grizz 1023. Don't need no stinking guard. Be cool like them. Didn't use the guard very often for about 4 or 5 years. Then I started seeing posts of terrible TS injuries, not to mention those reality ER shows with shop injuries, and I remembered how I wasn't always the least accident prone individual around. I knew it would just be a matter of time. Then I got a nasty kickback. Then I started playing the whatif game with that exposed bone slicing blade spinning at four grand.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/CJ7ole/Img_0854.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/CJ7ole/IMG_0104.jpg (notice the brackets for the anti-kick back wheels)

Now I use it 90% of the time, and when I can't, I use a homebuilt splitter. I have gotten so I can install or remove the guard in under a minute.

[tod evans]

ole, your gut looks alot like my cheek did years ago before the advent of digital photography! be safe, tod

[Ian Barley]

I have probably made three cuts without the guard in place in the last 5 years. Every one of them left me scared silly until it was over.

[Tom Hamilton]

I'm a guard user.

I made an overhead guard with shop vac dust collection for most cuts and a separate guard, also with dust collection, for the cross cut sled.

The MicroJig splitter is glued into the zero clearance insert.

The few cuts I've made recently without a guard left me feeling very uncomfortable.

Work safely, Tom

[Don Bergren]

I'm a blade guard user. Except for those types of cuts that require the removal of the guard. I'm most comfortable with the guard, splitters and pawls on the saw. Lot's of images of what happens when good safety practices are ignored were burned into my head back in high school shop class.

[CPeter James]

I use an Exactor overarm blade guard and an homemade splitter of my PM66 99% of the time. Paranoid about not using it. Like driving without seatbelts. Very uncomfortable feeling. The splitter is .130 thick and the blade is .125". The splitter is mounted below the table on the trunion assembly and has a slight flex to it that not only keeps the kerf open, but also puts a wee bit of pressure on the board towards the fence. I have had good results with it.

CPeter

[John Gornall]

I recently was looking for something on a top shelf in my shed and found 3 table saw guards, brand new, never used. I have had 3 table saws over the past 30 years and these are the 3 guards.

The interesting timing on finding these long forgotten guards is that a few months before I decided to review safety in my shop with a Grandson looking interested and installed a Uniguard and splitter on my Unisaw.

I was trained in a commercial shop in my younger days and surprising for those days the shop used guards and splitters.

Somehow when I got my own saws I did not use guards. I was comfortable without guards and haven't had an injury.

Now I'm used to and comfortable with these safety items - I can't imagine not using a splitter.

I'm glad I'm not telling a story about how I found those old guards a few days after cutting off a few fingers.

[Dale Thompson]

My PM66 has not seen the guard and splitter for at least four of the five years that I have owned it. :o While it is relatively easy to remove and install the guard, I find it much more convenient to "listen" to the wood for problems. ;) When the wood sounds "uncomfortable", so do I. :eek: I want to "hear" and "see" what is going on with my cut. The only thing that I miss is that the guard does help with dust collection. I've solved that by wearing a dust mask and buying an air cleaner. :)

With that said, I also have the DeWalt portable TS. With that one, I spent an hour taking off the guard and it has NEVER been put back on! :( I like the saw but the design of the guard attachment could be a subject for lawsuits! Manufacturers should not only have a responsibility for "proper" guarding but should also have a responsibility for the functionability of those guards. :rolleyes:

The install/remove process of that guard is ridiculous - even for an anti-lawsuit, Reagan Republican like moi! :)

Dale T.

[Mike Circo]

, I find it much more convenient to "listen" to the wood for problems. ;) When the wood sounds "uncomfortable", so do I.
Dale T.


Dale, you miss most of the issues. Do you have any pencils in your shop? There is a risk of dropping a pencil onto an exposed spinning blade and turning it into a missile. Same is true of lumber. Do you shut the saw off between EVERY cut, or do you do multilple boards in sequence? It is very easy to slip somehow and drop a board onto an exposed spinning blade.

You can't "Listen" quick enough to stop kickback, it happens at hundreds of miles per hour. "Listening" does not prevent a finger from inadvertantly slipping into a blade.

Accidents AWAYS happen when you are not listening or paying attention. If you are human your attention span will waver sometime, and that is when the saw bites.

I gladly trade a small amount of inconveinence for safety.

[Steven Wilson]

I have a saw with a riving knife that is always used, but more important it has a sliding carrige which allows me to lock large pieces down before sawing. I disliked the guard on the PM66 that I use to have so I used a Beis splitter that was great to use once set up properly. BTW if you don't like the guard part of a PM66 just unbolt the cover and use the splitter, it's a good splitter.

[Bob Noles]

Roy,

You just aren't any fun.... I love working from the side of my TS outdoors and watching my neighbor's dog duck my kickbacks :eek:

Seriously though.... I don't use my TS as much as many of the seasoned WW on here do, but when I do, it has all the components attached that came with it. That is one machine in my shop that I have the highest respect for.... not fear.... just pure respect. I still have all 10 and no belly scars. I am super aware of where my hands are as well as where the rest of my body is standing before pushing the wood into the blade. Don't matter where that darn dog is though :D

[Chip Olson]

I use the blade guard religiously. One of the many things I like about my 22114 is that the guard takes literally five seconds to remove or reinstall: loosen one big plastic knob and pull.

[Vaughn McMillan]

When I learned to use a tablesaw in high school, there were no guards on the blades. Push sticks, push blocks, standing out of the line of fire, and never lifting anything over the spinning blade were drilled into us by the teacher. Since then, I've been uncomfortable with every cut I've made on saws that had a guard, since the guard seems to get in the way of controlling the workpiece (IMHO). The factory guards on my last two tablesaws were only assembled and installed long enough for me to see they would be more hindrance (and danger) than help, especially for a lot of the thin rips I tend to do.

The splitter is another story. I only learned of the advantages of splitters here on the Creek, and now that I've got the MJ splitter, it's there for every rip cut I do. Not only has it made for safer cuts, but I get better, more consistent results (with my thin rips especially). Add the Grrrippers to the splitter, and I feel I have better control and better safety than if I were wrestling with the blade guard.

I can see cases where a guard could be advantageous, but for the majority of what I cut, it's no real help, and can actually add to the danger, IMHO.

- Vaughn

[Bob Johnson2]

I've gotten where I actually like the one that came witht the Unisaw. We'll maybe that's a stretch but I cut a hole in the top of it for the shop vac and use it whenever possible as it works well sucking dust that gets kicked out the top, especially plywood. I modified the original a bit so it comes off and goes on in a flash, about 5 seconds. Unfortunatly it seems that half of my cuts require it being removed. If I ever get to the point where I have all the (IMO) nessesary tools I need I'll pick up an Excaliber or similiar.

[Keith Christopher]

No guard, just a splitter.

[Matt Meiser]

[QUOTE=Jim DeLaney]For non-through cuts, or cuts that require me to use the Grripper®, I use a lower, shop-made splitter that replaces the Delta.[QUOTE]

Jim, I'd like to see a picture of that. I have the same splitter and just got a set of Grrrippers.

I use the Delta splitter for any cut that will support its use. I also use the Biesemeyer guard whenever possible. Before I got those, I never used the stock splitter/guard because they were too much trouble. The splitter pops in and out in just a few seconds, and I can move the guard out of the way in the same amount of time. I also have the dust collection attachement on the guard, hooked to a small dedicated shop vac that turns on whenever I turn on the saw which helps cut down on dust considerably.

[Dale Thompson]

Do you shut the saw off between EVERY cut, or do you do multilple boards in sequence? It is very easy to slip somehow and drop a board onto an exposed spinning blade.

You can't "Listen" quick enough to stop kickback, it happens at hundreds of miles per hour. "Listening" does not prevent a finger from inadvertantly slipping into a blade.



Mike,
As I said, you are ABSOLUTELY right! :) However, if you have followed any of my posts, you alrady know that I am not, "The sharpest tack in the box". :o I think that people who ride Harleys and stuff without helmets are CRAZY! On the other hand, that is their choice. I'm so paranoid that I wear a helmet when I take a shower. ;)

With regard to "dropping" a board, I posted a thread w/pics some time back that I believe was entitled, "Bouncing Betsy". I admit that I was lucky on that one but watching the board "dance" on the blade was kind of like being in Gay Paree and watching them do the "Can Can" in B flat minor. :eek:

I still like to "listen" to the wood. If you are in tune, you can almost always prevent a kickback well before it even happens. On the lathe, the wood starts to "whine" when the wall of the bowl is getting a bit thin. When it "screeches" - BAM!! It's time for a new bowl blank and a new face shield (I'm not TOTALLY stupid!?). Speaking of lathes, have any of you with the PM 3520 ever tried to use that "Shark Cage" that is supposed to protect you from flying timber. Mine has NEVER been on! My chisels don't fit between the bars. :rolleyes:

Whatever, Mike, the ONLY thing that I disagree with you on is the, "hundreds of miles an hour" warning. :confused: The tip speed of a 10" blade spinning at 3600 RPM is 107 MPH. With the binding involved in a kickback, I would suggest that the drag probably reduces the speed to something well under 100 MPH. ;)

Even at sub-sonic speeds, however, those little buggers can leave a heck of a mark - both physically and psychologically! :) :D

Dale T.

[Jim Bell]

No guard,no splitter, no problem. Same on my miter saws. My 7 1/4" Milwaukee circular saw has the guard because it is well designed and functional and actually is a safety device. A good high end blade on a TS is the best mechanical feature one can have. If you are afraid of your saw sell it. Read and study and get used to your equipment. Use a catch table and perhaps a feed of some type to assist with large pieces. 4x8s,, ect. Stay out of the line of fire. Don't cross cut against the fence. If your blade causes wood to smoke you probably need a new blade. Wax your table top(s). Read and understand how to set up and adjust the blade and rip fence to one another(alignment). All the safety devices in the world cannot help a poorly maintained and or adjusted saw. My feeling is some feel the anti kickback and splitters make everything ok. They don't. I'm not against safety devices mind you, just try not to forget the basics. I hope this helps someone.

Jim

[JayStPeter]

If anyone wants a spankin' new, still wrapped in plastic guard for a Unisaw let me know.

I do use a Uniguard splitter and older Excalibur overhead guard. But, the overhead guard is really only a failed attempt at better DC.

Jay St. Peter

[Stan Thigpen]

I never installed the guard on my old Craftsman contractor's saw when I purchased it about 15 years ago. I try to be very aware of the hazards. I use feather boards, push sticks, etc. and stand out of the line of the blade as much as possible. I don't have any plans for an after-market guard, but would sure like to incorporate a splitter into the machine.

[Jim Dannels]

Well there is a Bt3100 in my shop, guard is in place, kickback pawls removed. It does have the riving knife in place.
I find the guard a mixed blessing and will either cut down the riving knife eliminating it or install a Shark Guard.
The portable Delta has not had a guard for 15 yrs, t was a piece of nonfunctional crap from the git-go.
My primary safety process is to never stand directly behind the blade and never allow my hands to come in lie either. I painted a red line on the top inline with the blade and never go near it.

[Greg Bogardo]

New to Sawmill Creek. Hello to you all.

I use the Deluxe Delta Uniguard on my Unisaw as well as a Gripper. I used the factory guard and splitter prior to that and no guard and splitter on my old Craftsman saw. When it comes to an aftermarket guard and splitter I have no regrets or complaints about the Uniguard and use it pretty much all the time unless a cut can not be made with it in place.

Greg

[Tyler Howell]

I use the Excalibur guard and Bies Splitter on the PM 66. Just make good sense to me.
PS Welcome Greg.
Love to see some of your work!

[Jay Knepper]

My present cabinet saw (a Sawstop) has an excellent guard and an excellent riving knife that can be changed in a few seconds. They are used constantly.

My prior saw had a gawdawful guard. It never saw the light of day once I had tried it for a couple of projects. I did use an MJ splitter once they became available.

From my own experience and from reading many threads like this one, it appears that people will use good products. They will resist using bad products, even to the extent of compromising safety. ('Though omitting my prior saw's guard/splitter was not really much of a safety compromise.)

[Steve Rowe]

This is somewhat moot in my shop now since I have a slider and do use the guard. When I had my Unisaw, the standard guard was so lame that I purchased the Uniguard. I didn't really care much for the Uniguard splitter primarily due to those anti-kickback pawls so, I made my own splitter out of 1/8" thick aluminum flatbar - I liked this much better. While the Uniguard was a significant improvement, it does have some limitations and I believe there are probably better overhead guards available.

[Kent Cartwright]

Very interesting responses, especially in light of the recent accidents. My tablesaw is always equipped with a splitter and saw blade guard, unless doing dadoes or some other cut that does not allow the use of a splitter. My current setup is the factory standard splitter, with the plastic blade cover and pawls removed. Instead, I supplement the splitter with an Excalibur overhead guard. Now personally, I love the splitter, but find the overhead guard annoying. The head of the guard gets in the way of the push sticks, whenever my cut is small enough to require push sticks. Go figure. I am seriously considering doing away with the Excalibur and also possibly going to the MJ splitter.

The best splitter / blade cover I have used came on my first Craftsman saw. It was the standard one-piece unit, but it attached to a bracket using a thumb screw. It literally took less than 30 seconds to remove or replace the splitter / blade guard unit. Because it was so easy, I always used it.

My next upgrade will definately be to a Sawstop. Woodworking is only my hobby, and if I lost the use of my fingers for any significant period of time, my REAL job would be in jeopardy. I'm not willing to take that risk, especially when there are technology-related advances that can significantly reduce my risk. I feel training is your best bet for safety, but the right equipment can also really help. I see it as a belt-and-suspenders approach.

Kent

[Mark Singer]

I never use a guard...I want to see the blade...splitter for long rips and Board Buddies on most cuts. I have a PM 66...I never used it on my worm drive 77's either..

[Stan Thigpen]

What is the MJ splitter to which a couple of folks have referred?

[Kevin Groenke]

Since I'm supposed to be setting an example, I do as I tell our students to do . If the bladeguard doesn't interfere with a cut, it should be over the blade - and is ~95% of the time. After 10 years of this, I've actually grown uncomfortable when using a saw without a guard. That after a previous lifetime (and 2 fingers) of using saws without bladeguards.

We've made this easy by providing Beismeyer overhead guards (with the threaded rod/crank removed so a simple push/pull gets the guard in/out of position). It takes 5 seconds to move this guard in or out of position.

The addition of SawStop saws last year has added another layer of protection, but has changed no s.o.p. and the guards are still used universally. The stock bladeguard on the SawStop is quite unique and possibly less disfunctional than other stock guards. We opted to stay with the Beismeyers primarily because their use was pretty effectively institutionalized.

After a year with riving knifes I contend that they are superior to any other splitter/anti kickback device and do more to prevent mishap than any bladeguard. Kickbacks (previously an embarassingly frequent occurance) have been effectively eliminated with the incorporation of this simple unobtrusive device into the SawStops (and of course long available european saws, some old domestic saw, etc..). Riving Knives should be on every saw, should have been 20 years ago. I for one wouldn't buy a saw without a riving knife and wouldn't recommend one to anybody else.

Enough for now.

keeps your finger on.

kg

[Craig Colvin]

I have probably made three cuts without the guard in place in the last 5 years. Every one of them left me scared silly until it was over.

Ditto for me.

[Frank Hagan]

No guard for me, although I have tried to mock up a home-made guard using PSI's over-blade dust collector assembly. It wiggles too much, but the support arms might be better in aluminum or steel. I'm thinking I would be better off with the guard they have, which I could easily mount to the cieling.

I do take care. I am never, ever in line with the cut. I never cut sheet goods larger than 4 x 4 on my table saw. My position at the saw is to the left of the blade, left foot forward, with my weight on my right foot, positioned behind me. If I trip or lose my balance, I won't fall forward. Before I turn on the saw, I think through the cut, and for larger pieces that will extend off the saw table, I do a run-through with the blade down to make sure the outfeed rollers, etc. are positioned correctly. Because I have a small shop, I do the run through to make sure there isn't something behind the saw that will interfere ... stock that I think is far enough away, etc.

Looking at the Sawstop saw, I really like that blade guard. Clear plastic, close to the blade, and not too wide. My secret desire is to get a Sawstop; I like the splitter (riving knife) design too.

But, I am nervous about what I do now. Right now, dust collection and not breathing it are my first priorities.