Is a cast iron router table the right choice?

[Jeff Finazzo]

I know that question is subjective and there will be a variety of opinions. What I really need to answer is the choice between (2) router able set ups i am looking to purchase.

First is the Jess Em set up. The Ultimate Excell II package with all the bells and whistles.

Second choice is to build my with from various components, with the main difference being i would select a cast iron top. I would most likely go with a Jess Em lift and either a Jess Em or Incra fence.

My main dilemma is I like the idea of a cast iron top but do not know if it really make that much of a difference. Also, with the cast iron top there are not a lot of choices, and the ones i do see have the slots in the table for the fence (such as Bench Dog) which i do not want. I have not seen any other sources out there. Infinity had one but they took it off their product list.

I saw a Jet package that comes with a cast iron top, but im not sure that is up to par with the Jess Em as far as components. Also i have not had good luck with Jet in the past

Any wisdom experienced users can offer would be appreciated! thank you

[Ben Rivel]

I have read of other materials/frames/stands sagging, but I guess if you support it properly it should stay flat. Personally I went with the full sized Bench Dog cast iron and LOVE it. Definitely wouldnt go any other route for my own setup.

[Scott Bernstein]

Jeff -

I would guess that non-cast-iron router table tops are morecommon. When I put together my routertable set up I was still quite new into woodworking. I had not used (or seen) a router table otherthan on Norm Abram’s show (I knew his was not cast-iron). Atthat point I had a table saw, band saw, drill press, and a jointer – all ofwhich had cast-iron tops. So, naturally,I figured cast-iron was the way to go for my router table. I purchased the Bench Dog cast-iron routertable top and a steel rolling stand for it. Initially I used the Bench Dog router lift and fence; worked well for mefor a couple years. At that point mynephew was just getting into woodworking so I gave him my router lift and fenceand I purchased a Jessem lift and fence for myself – a slight upgrade. The Bench Dog fence fit into the slots intheir router table top, but the Jessem attaches to rails that you are supposedto screw into the sides of your wood/phenolic table top. I was able to drill appropriate screw holesinto the sides of my Bench Dog cast-iron top with a carbide bit, and theninstalled the Jessem Hardware – works great. I don’t use the Bench Dog fence slots anymore – I pretty much justignore them. If I had to do it again Ithink I would get the same table. Iscast-iron necessary – probably not- but it’s nice, heavy-duty and works verywell for me. I think the only downsideis that it’s yet another cast-iron top I have to maintain. I keep all my tools in the un-air-conditionedgarage, so I have to keep at it or I get rust real quick.
Good luck
Scott

[Mike Kees]

Peachtree has one that bolts to a tablesaw in place of a wing. Not sure if they make a stand alone one,but worth a look. General International also had one. Every router table I ever built eventually sagged,no matter what I used. I would go cast iron if I wanted a router table now. A piece of 1/2'' steel plate with a hole machined to fit your choice of router lift would work nice too.

[Mike Cutler]

If I ever have to build another router table, it will be cast iron.;)
Like Mike Kees, all of mine have sagged over time also, or got slight distortions in the top.If you're committed to a router in a lift, do it once and be done with it.

[Robert Engel]

IMO it won't. A very stable very flat top can be made using 2 layers of MDF with laminate on both sides.

BTW I just ordered the MastR Lift and the Jessem router which I plan to install in my existing top.

[Doug Dawson]

I know that question is subjective and there will be a variety of opinions. What I really need to answer is the choice between (2) router able set ups i am looking to purchase.

First is the Jess Em set up. The Ultimate Excell II package with all the bells and whistles.

Second choice is to build my with from various components, with the main difference being i would select a cast iron top. I would most likely go with a Jess Em lift and either a Jess Em or Incra fence.

My main dilemma is I like the idea of a cast iron top but do not know if it really make that much of a difference. Also, with the cast iron top there are not a lot of choices, and the ones i do see have the slots in the table for the fence (such as Bench Dog) which i do not want. I have not seen any other sources out there. Infinity had one but they took it off their product list.

I saw a Jet package that comes with a cast iron top, but im not sure that is up to par with the Jess Em as far as components. Also i have not had good luck with Jet in the past

Any wisdom experienced users can offer would be appreciated! thank you

I have the Jet package with the cast iron top. The fence and the Powermatic lift are both very good, and the dust collection is outstanding (which was kind of the point to it for me.) The cast iron top was flat, and has full-size and "half-size" miter slots, so you can use your miter stuff from the other tools. The cast iron lets you use your magnetic accessories. My main complaint with it is that the "mobility solution" was designed by somebody's idiot nephew, and I just left it off and put the thing on a mobile base.

The good part for you is that Jet supposedly sells the table, fence and lift separately, so you can build your own platform. That's probably what I'll eventually do. It's expensive, but nobody pays list for these things.

[liam c murphy]

I have a Sawstop stand alone cast iron router table with their lift, and also a Kreg laminate router table with their latest lift. I usually have the Kreg table set up for notching beaded face frames. The Sawstop table is my general purpose table. On my latest project I set them up to do cope and stick doors and drawer fronts. I probably could have purchased two used shapers for what I spent on the Sawstop table. In general, I like it a lot.

My opinion is that a good lift is more important than whatever table you choose to use. Plenty of talented professional woodworkers make their own tables. I did not want to spend the time, so I bought mine.

[Nick Decker]

If I ever have to build another router table, it will be cast iron.;)
Like Mike Kees, all of mine have sagged over time also, or got slight distortions in the top.If you're committed to a router in a lift, do it once and be done with it.

Ditto, except that mine hasn't sagged.

When I put my "system" together, I went with the Woodpeckers MDF table. It's excellent in most respects. Having read so many tales of sagging, I underlaid it with a piece of 3/4" BB plywood, cutting out the center to match the cutout in the MDF table. It's been two years, supporting the big Porter Cable router mounted in a Jessem MasterLift II, and it has not sagged one bit.

What it does do is expand and contract with heat/humidity changes. I regularly need to re-adjust the Jessem plate to keep it flush in the MDF table. At first I thought that maybe the adjustment screws were vibrating out of adjustment, so I blue Loctited them. Now it takes considerable force to move them at all. Since I've had to adjust them both up and down, it seems to me that there's a cyclical change going on, hence heat/humidity.

It moves so little that I often don't bother with it, but I always recheck it before doing anything critical.

I've thought about changing to a cast iron top, but that would mean a different fence and I've grown attached to the Woodpeckers fence with the micro adjuster.

[Mike Cutler]

Nick

Mine did pretty much the same thing. My last table was 4' long by 2' deep. It was a layer of 3/4" cabinet ply, with a layer of 1/2" Baltic birch on top. Th router was mounted in a 3/8" thick aluminum plater. The construction was doubled up 2x4 legs, and 3 sides were 1/2" ply to enclose the base. The top probably has less than 12" between 2x4 cross supports in any given span, or measurement. It's bullet proof.The fence slid on Incra T-Track and I put a miter slot into it, which was waste in my opinion. I still had issues with that plate maintaining the same level as the top.
I finally just gave up on router tables all together and bought a used shaper. I still have my last router table. It's still a beast and dead level, but there are a few places where the ply was able to swell at the edges.
My shop is not climate controlled, and that is probably at least 50% of my issues. The shaper was just a better choice for me,and it's nice to have 400+lbs of machine stability.

[Nick Decker]

I've also considered phenolic, and I suppose it wouldn't expand/contract like MDF. You could support it from below, like I did with BB ply underneath, but then I worry about the BB itself turning into a shape-shifter...

[Jeff Finazzo]

Thanks for all the feedback. Very helpful. Some of the feedback got me thinking perhaps getting a shaper is a better solution for me. Considering what i am looking at spending for a high quality router table. I actually considered this at one time but was turned off by the high cost of cutters and what i guess I will call ignorance on my part. I have never used one but I am very familiar with router tables. With that said, if I did consider a shaper, any recommendations for a high quality machine that is suited for a a hobbiest that is replacing a router table. I would not be raising panels or using super large diameter bits. Do not want to spend a crazy amount but I am not afraid to purchase a life time quality machine. Euro machines with siding tables seem nice but are ridiculously expensive. Powermatic a good choice? Used i know is an option but i never seem to have luck going that route

[Doug Dawson]

Thanks for all the feedback. Very helpful. Some of the feedback got me thinking perhaps getting a shaper is a better solution for me. Considering what i am looking at spending for a high quality router table. I actually considered this at one time but was turned off by the high cost of cutters and what i guess I will call ignorance on my part. I have never used one but I am very familiar with router tables. With that said, if I did consider a shaper, any recommendations for a high quality machine that is suited for a a hobbiest that is replacing a router table. I would not be raising panels or using super large diameter bits. Do not want to spend a crazy amount but I am not afraid to purchase a life time quality machine. Euro machines with siding tables seem nice but are ridiculously expensive. Powermatic a good choice? Used i know is an option but i never seem to have luck going that route

A shaper doesn't run fast enough to get the best out of router bits that are not of the class of panel raising bits etc. The router table has its place.

[Jim Becker]

As you note in your OP, it very much is subjective. It was absolutely the right choice for me back when I did it and it was subsequently incorporated into my slider setup as a "poor man's shaper" since I wasn't able to afford a saw/shaper combo. I really like having the cast iron surface, especially since I'm somewhat of a fan of using magnetic fixtures for my feather boards, etc. My life is also ferrous metal, so I don't loose the magnetic capability close to the cutter.

That said, my previous router setups were shop-built surfaces of two pieces of .75" MDF with a plastic laminate top surface. One remains in use on my sander station. (It was re-laminated after filling the original router hole to provide a continuous surface for the cabinet that it sets on) The beautiful of these shop-built setups is that they can be very cost effective...face it, cast iron router tables are not chump-change to buy.

[Ben Zara]

A purchased cheap router table will be a headache. I was given as a gift a Craftsman router table that was big and had all the features but they were so poorly executed (warped aluminum table, flimsy fence, lift that was impossible to square to the table top) that the table was useless for fine work.

If you need to save money, build it yourself.

If you have the funds, buy a cast iron with a good lift. The difference is night and day.

I just bought the sawstop standalone but i fitted it with a Incra/Jessem lift cause I think the dust collection is superb on that model.

[johnny means]

If cost is not a problem CI I'd the way to go. The added mass makes a big difference. That being said, my Benchdog top didn't add any real capabilities over the melamine top out replaced. Like stated earlier, a good lift is makes a much greater difference in actual utility.

[Larry Frank]

I have a heavy lift with a PC 7518 in my top which is double layer of 3/4" BB. I have had it for years and zero sag. It has a light colored Formica top that is nice as I put pencil marks on it for setups. The marks wipe off easily.

[Mike Kees]

When I was making my router table tops I used plywood and glued up at least 2-3 variations,up to 2" thick. I only put laminate on the top. My tables were also in locations without climate control. Where I live here in Alberta we have a pretty dry climate,my tops probably twisted as they dried out. I did not ever try mdf,but there were layers of Baltic birch tried. I own two shapers and can use my router bits in the smaller one. Rpm is 10000 max,works fairly well with a slower feed rate. The convenience of using my shaper with a power feed and the great fence make me doubt that I will build another router table,I think it would be a waste of space for me.

[Jim Dwight]

I have never used a commercial router table and doubt I ever will. I have two home made ones but I only really use one of them. The top is a sink cutout. They are high density particle board with formica for the top. I backed it with a piece of 3/4 plywood and added an oak edge. The motor is from an old Ryobi 13amp plunge router and resides in a home made lift that attaches to the 3/4 plywood back of the router cabinet. The idea was in an old American Woodworker article. The router motor slides up and down on two 1 inch ground steel rods. Other than the motor compartment with the lift, the arrangement is like Norm's from New Yankee Workshop. So I have multiple bit drawers and a larger drawer at the bottom. It rolls around on totally locking casters and the height is just slightly lower than my table saw. I've made lots of raised panel and flat panel doors on it. A router motor isn't great at panel raising, you have to take multiple passes, but cope and stick is easy. A shaper would be better at the panel raising but I do not have the space. The top of my router table tilts up for bit changing. I can also mount a PC 690 on a moving panel on the back for a simple horizontal router table if I need that functionality. I haven't checked the flatness of the top but it stays plenty flat enough.

It is always nice to work with nice tools but I really think a router table is best made, not bought. In it's simplest form it is just a router attached to a table with a board fence. It just doesn't have the complexity of a table saw (but I once had a home made table saw too).

[Eric Anderson]

I also went with the Bench dog CI top, and built a "norm" inspired table around it. The Bench dog top has a smaller cut out, so there are only a few lifts (other than BD) that will fit, including the woodpecker lift, which I went with and am completely satisfied. I also went with the Jess-em fence, but you can easily adapt it to use the BD slots and T-nuts to tighten it down. Just throw away the rails that come with the fence. It does mean you have less precision in adjusting the fence, this hasn't proved to be a big problem, and I really like the Jess-em hold-downs, which I highly recommend. I'm also using the lift with a PC7518 router, so plenty of power, adjustable speed, and heavy.

[Bill Dufour]

Probably cheaper to buy a used shaper and just use the ci table.
Bill D.

[Randy Heinemann]

I would say that it doesn't really matter what material the table is made of as long as it's flat (within a few thousandths). I own an Incra composite top surfaced with laminate. It is as flat as possible and, with a good base (in this case Incra's), there should be no sagging.

Before this table I owned a Rockler table which I incorporated into a homemade base. It was thicker than the Incra top (1 1/4" I think) and, as far as I know it never sagged either; also was flat.

So, flatness is the important thing. A review I read in Fine Woodworking a number years ago when I was buying my Incra table indicated that cast iron tops were no flatter than composite or other tops. In one case, the cast iron top wasn't as flat if I remember correctly.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I would say that it doesn't really matter what material the table is made of as long as it's flat (within a few thousandths). I own an Incra composite top surfaced with laminate. It is as flat as possible and, with a good base (in this case Incra's), there should be no sagging.

Before this table I owned a Rockler table which I incorporated into a homemade base. It was thicker than the Incra top (1 1/4" I think) and, as far as I know it never sagged either; also was flat.

So, flatness is the important thing. A review I read in Fine Woodworking a number years ago when I was buying my Incra table indicated that cast iron tops were no flatter than composite or other tops. In one case, the cast iron top wasn't as flat if I remember correctly.

Agree with the post above.

I made my first router table out of two pieces of 3/4" ply with laminate on top. Flat as a pancake and never sagged or warped. I lived in FL, TN and TX, never noticed any movement in the top.

I eventually bought a Woodpeckers router table lift and stand, put a PC 7518 in it. That cost around $1700. The top is Phenolic, flat as a pancake.

I did replace the the metal stand with a cabinet I built

The original stand and my cabinet
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/RouterCabinetBeforAndAfter_zpscsqihrci.jpg


http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/RouterCabinet2_zps65dg18eb.jpg

Plenty of support there.

My only regret, I wish the top was slightly ;larger in front of the router bit.

I also have the Incra laminate router top in the right wing of my SawStop. No flex and flat.

From my experience, I can't see any major benefit in a CI for my needs.

Also, I've neem looking at Shapers over the past couple of months, I'm not finding anything less than around $3000, new or used, that offers me more capability that my router.

[Jack Frederick]

I built "Norm's RT" and got a lot of use out of it. It did not make the trip across country. I am finishing another like it with the Rockler AL insert, double 3/4 laminated MDF with a t-track. Dust collection from the fence and cabinet is good. I am not happy with the fence I made and will modify it. I run the 3 1/2 hp PC plunge router in it and built my own lift with a bit of all thread and a rod coupling mounted to a plate. All I have to do in release the lever, reach into the lower cabinet and dial it to where I want it with the handle and the bit is at eye level at that point. I have a bad case of the "I wants" for the SawStop Router table insert, but I just can't spend the dough on it and the lifts, while really convenient, double the cost which is substantial. I'm saving my pennies for a Domino which I cannot build.

[andy bessette]

Cast iron is best. I made mine from an ancient, repurposed table saw top and built it onto my primary Unisaw so it could also use the Unifence.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0bfb5B/shop-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Jak Kelly]

This may not be the so popular option, but it works for me and has worked well. I utilized 2 of the Craftsman aluminum router table tops and incorporated them into my cabinet saw. It was not a direct fit between the rails of the cabinet saw so I had to also use some 1" or maybe it was 1.25" aluminum square tubing. I know these tops are no where near as good as some of the nicer aftermarket ones, and they do not compare to a cast wing router top add on. But I already owned one of the Craftsman tops and my dad gave me his. I do not have 2 routers mounted, although I guess that I could, but the second one did give me additional table top space. I keep my PC router permanently mounted and I have a Dewalt plunge+fixed base for other stuff. Might add that in comparison my additions were considerably cheaper that some of the aftermarket tables and lift devices. Would I like to have some of those aftermarket goodies HECK YES, but the reality of it is I cannot really justify the cost. 402846

[kent wardecke]

I had a few of the craftsman variety router tables .As a result i rarely used my router .Now I've built a crude router table as a wing on my Delta contractors saw and wow what a difference . I know the table as is has a limited life span. Next time i will either buy a cast iron wing and make it fit or upgrade the saw and make sure it supports a cast iron router table wing

[Carl Beckett]

I would not be raising panels or using super large diameter bits. Do not want to spend a crazy amount

For smaller work a router table may be a better choice. (imo, but that is just me). Shapers do not run the rpm to get good cutting speeds for small dia bits. They are generally larger (fence, inserts, tooling, etc) - I am not sure what it is like to run a 1/16" dia bit in a shaper as an example.

Shaper tooling is expensive. And you may likely want a feeder to go with it. So $$ (a used shaper itself can be had very resonable, but that is 25% of the cost if that)

So do a little research between the two before jumping into a shaper.

[glenn bradley]

I like cast iron tables. I went with a thick MDF/melamine top because the CI ones available at the time just didn't have the real estate I was after. My current one is 32" x 24" and if I couldn't share the tablesaw surface with it I would want it bigger still. Like the shaper / router table conversation; what is best will depend on what you want to do.

[Chris Fournier]

I made my own router table and it was just fine. Was it a shaper? Nope. The questions that you ask tells me that you should be looking at a light duty shaper.

[Mike Kees]

If you do decide to look at shapers the comment about the shaper being 25% of the cost is accurate. I would recommend a 3h.p. shaper with 3/4"And 1" spindles plus a router collet. this was my first shaper. Used it with just the router collet for 5-6 years. I ended up with a power feed in a package deal and that started me down the road of buying shaper cutters.It is an investment that can be done slowly over time. Still use my machine with a router bit every once in a while.The 3/4" spindle is probably the most used,because of cheap used cutters being readily available .My one inch spindle is handy now with collars to run some of my 1 1/4" tooling on. Be careful it is a slippery slope. Mike.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

I'm perfectly happy with the Veritas steel top and fence from Lee Valley. The top "floats" in a larger router table so lots of support for the work piece. A lift would be nice but I use an older Triton 3hp which allows above table bit changes and has a separate knob which allows fine tuning the height.

[Jeff Finazzo]

If you do decide to look at shapers the comment about the shaper being 25% of the cost is accurate. I would recommend a 3h.p. shaper with 3/4"And 1" spindles plus a router collet. this was my first shaper. Used it with just the router collet for 5-6 years. I ended up with a power feed in a package deal and that started me down the road of buying shaper cutters.It is an investment that can be done slowly over time. Still use my machine with a router bit every once in a while.The 3/4" spindle is probably the most used,because of cheap used cutters being readily available .My one inch spindle is handy now with collars to run some of my 1 1/4" tooling on. Be careful it is a slippery slope. Mike.

Thanks Mike. I still on the fence with this but see the benefits of a shaper for my needs. Do your have a recommendation as far a brand/model? Powermatic, Laguna?

[Mike Kees]

Jeff mine is a Steel City . I also just bought a larger shaper about a month ago. Honestly I would look used,most of the 3h.p. machines will only have been used by a hobby guy anyway. I see them all the time in the 500-1000 range. These machines are really designed for a 3/4" spindle despite having bigger ones available. General International makes a nice one,after that I really only have experience with Steel City. It is a good one with a larger spindle carriage than some of the others (Bearings will be bigger).Unfortunately it is no longer made. There are tons of shaper threads on here to search though. What kind of work do you want to do with a shaper ? That will help determine what to look for .

[tom lucas]

I bought the General International add-on to my table saw and added an Incra lift (Woodpecker). Then I built a little cabinet the sits under the router to hold router accessories. Photo below. Love this setup because it saves me space. I do wish the table were a bit wider to better support large wood, but it's rarely an issue. G.I. also sells a full size cast iron table that you can build a table around that is much bigger than the tablesaw add-on. I liked my G.I. better than the Ptree one because of the leg kit And the included fence is really nice. I don't understand the objection to a miter slot in the table. It doesn't interfere when not used, and is great for coping applications. Certainly not a cheap solutions, but I'm glad I did it.

http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/1595370-438x.jpg

[Mike Cutler]

Thanks Mike. I still on the fence with this but see the benefits of a shaper for my needs. Do your have a recommendation as far a brand/model? Powermatic, Laguna?

Are we looking at used, or new?

[Dean Moldenhauer]

Jeff,
For what it’s worth, I went with the Ultimate Excel II setup you’re talking about and have been very happy with it. I asked around a lot and considered building my own or waiting until I got my Sawstop and adding a cast iron extension wing with the router lift. Ultimately, I decided that I wanted to have the whole system that was designed/built to work together. Another deciding factor for me was the time it was going to take me to figure out all the parts and pieces that worked well together and then build the cabinet for it. At first, I was convinced that I had to have cast iron, but I moved away from that only because I have a non heated shop and was concerned about maintaining that top. Probably should not have been concerned about that, but it got me to start looking at other top materials and I decided the phenolic would be good for me.
To each his own, and I have seen some really beautiful setups that guys here have put together but, for me, that Excel II setup fit the bill and I haven’t been disappointed.

good luck,
Dean

[Darrell Bade]

An FYI to a post on the last page that stated that there are not many lifts available for the Bench Dog table because it has a smaller opening. Jeesum and Incra (which is a Jessum with magnetic inserts) now make their lifts in two sizes, one for the smaller openings.

[Myk Rian]

The secret to making an MDF top, is in mating the convex surfaces of two 3/4" layers. Like this; )(
It ain't gonna warp.

[Nick Decker]

That may well be true, Myk. As I posted earlier, my problem wasn't warping or sagging, it appears to be that the MDF swells and shrinks. It's ever so slight, but it's enough to put the insert plate out of flush.

[Myk Rian]

I see you're in Missouri. Makes sense it would swell.
I painted all surfaces with poly thinned with min spirits. Then a 1/4" Masonite layer on top.
You could also route out the shelf, and replace it with a new shelf made of a stable wood.

[Jeff Finazzo]

Are we looking at used, or new?
Im think new. I never have luck with used.

[Mike Shields]

Of all the wood tools I have, the phenolic router table (Jessem) is the easiest to maintain. I cringe when I see scratches or surface contaminates on my $3k Sawstop cast iron, and realize the amount of work it takes to clean it.