I need joinery help, please!

[Scott Brader]

I am building a turntable stand for my son that is loosely based on the one in the image below. I'm having problems figuring out how to do the angled divider piece. I'm thinking of angled tenons or an angled tongue as shown in the rough sketch. The piece is 15 inches wide, so I'm not sure of the best way to do it.

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[Ken Fitzgerald]

Scott, what tools do you have? I could do this on my table saw in a couple different ways.

[Scott Brader]

Ken,
Good point! I failed to mention that I have a table saw, router table and drill press along with a jointed, planer and SCMS.

Scott

[Lee Schierer]

Instead of tenons as it is in the sketch, make an angled dado cut on your table saw. This would leave the ends of the connecting board square.

[Scott Brader]

I thought of that option, too, but wasn't sure how it would look. Would it look like I just took any easy shortcut? I'm hoping this is an opportunity to learn something new and maybe buy something new, too.

[Michael Todrin]

It looks to me like a great excuse to buy a domino. Just saying :)

[Doug Dawson]

I am building a turntable stand for my son that is loosely based on the one in the image below. I'm having problems figuring out how to do the angled divider piece. I'm thinking of angled tenons or an angled tongue as shown in the rough sketch. The piece is 15 inches wide, so I'm not sure of the best way to do it.

If you made the angled piece vertical, you'd have more room to store your records.

[Scott Brader]

The stock is only 5/8" thick. Would a domino even be an option on such thin pieces?

[Scott Brader]

Unfortunately, the angled piece is a design element my son and his wife want. I could handle it much easier if it was straight.

[Doug Dawson]

Unfortunately, the angled piece is a design element my son and his wife want. I could handle it much easier if it was straight.

It's in keeping with the vaguely Euro design of the piece that you would use biscuits.

[Scott Brader]

I'm pretty ignorant about biscuits. Would they be an option on such thin stock?

[Doug Dawson]

I'm pretty ignorant about biscuits. Would they be an option on such thin stock?

There are three sizes, associated with three different slot depths, and you'd choose the appropriate one. You could buy a biscuit joiner for as little as 60 bucks new, and many people on this board would probably give you theirs for free. There's a lot of prejudice in this world. :^)

It's important to note that you would split the angle, which allows you to use the same fence setting for both upper edges, and you'd probably use the #0 biscuits. You could create a very nice waterfall pattern using the same board for both top and sides, and the lack of exposed joinery would contribute to that.

[Brian Holcombe]

I would use a box joint at the top. The bottom could be straight tenons into angled mortises. Tenons are much stronger when going along the grain path.

[Scott Brader]

thanks. I'll take a look at biscuits.

[Scott Brader]

I haven't considered angled mortices. I figured the angle on the tenon wasn't enough to be a factor. I'll take a look.

[Michael Todrin]

The smallest cutter is 4mm. Should work fine.

[Lee Schierer]

I thought of that option, too, but wasn't sure how it would look. Would it look like I just took any easy shortcut? I'm hoping this is an opportunity to learn something new and maybe buy something new, too.

Use a angled dado for the bottom joint and a miter for the upper which would leave no exposed end grain.

[Edwin Santos]

The simplest way I can think of to do this (besides a biscuit joiner) would be to make a project specific dowel jig like the one pictured below. Except yours would have the appropriate angle cut on one side of the jig to mate to the opposing workpiece. Drill the holes in your jig on the drill press, and then cut the angled side on your table saw. Use the hook pictured to register the jig to either the back or front of your workpieces. Secure it with screws (or nails as pictured) whose holes will be covered when you assemble and glue the joint.

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You didn't ask for any design opinions, but I think the detail on the top edge in the photo would look better than the squared off edge you show in your sketch i.e. more of waterfall.

[Scott Brader]

You didn't ask for any design opinions, but I think the detail on the top edge in the photo would look better than the squared off edge you show in your sketch i.e. more of waterfall.

Thanks for the ideas. My fear with dowels, biscuits, floating tenons, etc. is that the pieces are quite thin and I am concerned that there wouldn't be much room for forgiveness on the holes in the angled piece. The angled tenons (or straight tenons with angled mortices) would eliminate the risk of accidentally drilling through the piece since the mortices would be cut into the flat surface of the top and bottom.

By the way, the sketch was only to show the joinery. All edges will have a slight roundover to soften them. I agree that the hard square edges would look a bit harsh.

[Scott Brader]

Use a angled dado for the bottom joint and a miter for the upper which would leave no exposed end grain.

That's worth considering. Thanks!

[Carl Beckett]

Crude: Drill/countersink screws from the bottom on the lower joint. Pocket hole the upper joint. Personally I dont like the exposed pocket holes, but every time I do that the 'customers' (daughters and wife) do not care at all and love the finished piece. Really, I am the only one it bothers.

Another option: Add a back. That bridges the joint such that almost anything is strong enough. (or add a corner piece in the upper joint)

Not mentioned here, but certainly an option of picking up new tools/skills: Cut them by hand (mortise/tenon as shown). I am not that big a fan of that upper tenon being so close to the edge, and might worry a little about it breaking out. Probably not.

An angled dado in the bottom might not be that simple to pull off (maybe?). This design reminds me of angled joinery I did on some chairs... it takes some thought to get it right.

Biscuits is a pretty good idea (or dominos - similar concept).

[Scott Brader]

Not mentioned here, but certainly an option of picking up new tools/skills: Cut them by hand (mortise/tenon as shown). I am not that big a fan of that upper tenon being so close to the edge, and might worry a little about it breaking out. Probably not.

Carl,
I'm always in favor of having an excuse to pick up new tools and skills! I was figuring I would buy a tenoning jig for my table saw if I went the angled tenon route. The beauty of it all is that my wife is very supportive of me buying new tools when I need them! (I love that woman!!!) In fact, she pushes me to pick up a floor model bandsaw the local Woodcraft has on special every time we go in. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had a bit more space in my shop, but that's another story.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Scott

[Lee Schierer]

That's worth considering. Thanks!

You could cut a groove in each half of the miter joint for a spline to reinforce the joint. All of the work can be done on your table saw.

[Robert Engel]

Scott,

I can think of a few suggestions:

Top:

1. Box joint. You would have to build a jig and do some practice. Personally I wouldn't go that way.

2. Dovetail. Either through or half blind. Personally this would be my preference over box joint. I would use hand tools.

3. Dowels, Dominoes, biscuits - not enough depth.

4. Butt joint with screws and plugs. (Won't look as bad as you think)

Of the 4, I would probably go with dovetails.

Bottom:

1. Angled mortises are easier than angled tenons. I would to through wedged tenons.

2. Screws from the bottom +/- a housing dado.

Of these two, I would go with screws and no dado.

My approach would be focus on joinery you can see and keep it simple.

Hope this helps.

[Scott Brader]

My approach would be focus on joinery you can see and keep it simple.

Good ideas. Thanks!

[Tony Leonard]

Hmmm. What about moving the tenon on the top to the inside? That would leave more meat on the outside of the mortise. This is very much like a chair rail. I might consider building a jig to cut the tenons on the table saw using a dado blade perhaps. Wouldn't be that hard to do. You might Google up chair making to see some ideas. Cutting the mortises with a router wouldn't be hard at all. A shoulder plane would be of help to fine tune, but a chisel would work - or sandpaper on a block, or just take a lot of time setting up the cut. Neat project. Good luck with it. You could also do a stopped spline sort of thing. Just thinking out loud here. Lots of options.

Tony

[Scott Brader]

Hmmm. What about moving the tenon on the top to the inside? That would leave more meat on the outside of the mortise.

That's a great idea! Thanks!

[George Yetka]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gWBvPL_wlMw/VlcSj15Cq3I/AAAAAAAACKw/X9BMDovGr1Y/s1600/3%2Bfinger%2Bhardwood%2Binto%2Bplywood%2Bedge.jpg
this may work on the bottom for you with a through tenon

https://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/angled_joint.jpg
For the top something like this with larger boxes then saw away most of waste and clean up with a plane?

[Scott Brader]

this may work on the bottom for you with a through tenon

For the top something like this with larger boxes then saw away most of waste and clean up with a plane?

Those are interesting possibilities, too. I knew I would get a wide range of good ideas from the folks at SMC!

[Carl Beckett]

For the top something like this with larger boxes then saw away most of waste and clean up with a plane?

I like that a lot. Did something like that with an Incra box joint jig recently and it came out great. (so if you want to buy more tools, that may be an option and something you can use on a lot of different projects)

[Bert McMahan]

If you want to make your original design, you could do it by using a slotted router bit on a router table, and building an angled sled. The sled would ride across the router table and hold the piece up at the correct angle.

[Scott Brader]

After playing around with a number of ideas and options, I decided on doing a modified box/finger joint. I elected to use box joints everywhere just because I liked the look. I cut a six degree angle on the inside of each of the finished pieces and the end as shown in the first picture below. That allowed me to assemble the joint to the angle I wanted with what I expect to be maximum strength. Thanks for all of the input and ideas!

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