HF DC Retrofit OR Mini Gorilla?

[Michael Ray]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on DC. I'll cut right to the chase - I'm between retrofitting a HF single stage DC unit OR spending quite a bit more on Oneida's Mini Gorilla. The HF retrofit would cost $539 (it would include adding Oneida's 5" SDD ($169) with 17 gallon steel drum ($101) and their HEPA Cartridge Filter Upgrade ($269)). The Mini Gorilla runs $1,349. https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/mini-gorilla/1-5-hp-mini-gorilla-cyclone-dust-collector

My shop is a two car garage. All my tools are on mobile bases. I have no DC piping. I collect dust from my tools 1 tool at a time. I don't own a joiner and have no plans to get one any time soon. I do have a DeWalt 735 planer, Bosch 4100 TS, Rockler router table and a vintage DeWalt GWI RAS. My biggest dust maker is a Craftsman Professional 12" disk/6"x48" belt combo sander with 4" DC ports.

Anyone have a retrofit HF DC? Can anyone share their experience with the Mini Gorilla? Can a retrofit HF unit even be compared to the Mini Gorilla?

Thanks for taking the time to help me get this right.

Mike

[Chris Schoenthal]

I have a modified HF like you are envisioning. Not sure where you came up with some of your costs however. You can get the SDD with 16 gal drum from Woodcraft for $209. The Merv 11 filter from Wynn is $188.
I haven't seen the Mini Gorilla, but looking at it and the specs, it's a downgrade from the HF in several ways. The HF has almost double the CFM and I have no problem running two 4" hoses at the same time. The Wynn filter has a lot more surface area which will help the CFM as well.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I have a previous model mini gorilla and it's okay. I bought it used and got a decent deal on it but I wish I would have gotten something more powerful. I know people say to keep things mobile in a small shop but that damn mini gorilla was always in the way. It annoyed the hell out of me. A couple of months ago I mounted it on the wall and ran one branch to my table saw and the other is a Rockler 28' dust right hose that I connect to other tools. I am pushing it beyond its limits and it does an okay job but I wish I would have gotten something more powerful and did a DIY two stage setup. Now I am just saving up to get a CV1800.

[Michael Ray]

Not sure where you came up with some of your costs however. You can get the SDD with 16 gal drum from Woodcraft for $209. The Merv 11 filter from Wynn is $188.

Chris - Thanks for the reply. I was looking at the 5" SDD because the HF blower inlet is 5". The 5" SDD doesn't come with a container. The smallest available at Oneida is the 17" steel drum. So my costs estimate is a little pricier than the 4" kit. I did not look at Wynn for the filter cartridge. I could save money there, thanks for bringing it to my attention.


The HF has almost double the CFM

I agree, the Mini Gorilla specs do not look great but Oneida points out that 600CFM is "actual CFM" meaning tested with cyclone, filter and 10' of hose - not just "free fan" with nothing attached for inflated performance numbers. I wish that there was an industry standard. It sure would make comparison shopping easier.

[Michael Ray]

I have a previous model mini gorilla and it's okay. I bought it used and got a decent deal on it but I wish I would have gotten something more powerful. I know people say to keep things mobile in a small shop but that damn mini gorilla was always in the way. It annoyed the hell out of me. A couple of months ago I mounted it on the wall and ran one branch to my table saw and the other is a Rockler 28' dust right hose that I connect to other tools. I am pushing it beyond its limits and it does an okay job but I wish I would have gotten something more powerful and did a DIY two stage setup. Now I am just saving up to get a CV1800.


Tim - I have read a few reviews about the 1st Gen. Mini Gorilla that commented on a lack pf power. The 2017 Fine Woodworking review raves about the 2nd. Gen. I have no idea what FWW's policy is regarding tested items - whether they get paid or not - so I'll take it with a grain of salt and rely on real world reviews like yours. Still, I wonder what changes were made to the 2nd Gen - if any?

[Art Mann]

It does not make any sense and is misleading to publish a single CFM number for a dust collection machine. What if your hose needs to be 15 feet to work in your situation instead of 10? The good machines always furnish a performance curve that allows you to predict the CFM and performance for a wide variety of conditions. The curves are the only point of comparison between machines that mean anything. Even then, some machines might provide a lower CFM but a higher filtration rating so that the lower CFM machine is the better one for actual dust reduction.

[Michael Ray]

It does not make any sense and is misleading to publish a single CFM number for a dust collection machine. What if your hose needs to be 15 feet to work in your situation instead of 10? The good machines always furnish a performance curve that allows you to predict the CFM and performance for a wide variety of conditions. The curves are the only point of comparison between machines that mean anything. Even then, some machines might provide a lower CFM but a higher filtration rating so that the lower CFM machine is the better one for actual dust reduction.

Art - Oneida specifications says 583 Actual CFM at 2" S.P. and had a performance curve for the 2nd Gen. Mini Gorilla. Additionally, I found HF's 2HP DC performance curve online - apparently it's from a Wood Magazine test...

[Art Mann]

Oneida is a reputable company and I would expect them to publish performance curves for all their machines. Harbor Freight is not, with regard to equipment specifications. It is fortunate that someone else did the measurements for comparison sake. I am proud that Oneida is being honest because that curve exhibits poor performance for the money spent.

[Tim M Tuttle]

Tim - I have read a few reviews about the 1st Gen. Mini Gorilla that commented on a lack pf power. The 2017 Fine Woodworking review raves about the 2nd. Gen. I have no idea what FWW's policy is regarding tested items - whether they get paid or not - so I'll take it with a grain of salt and rely on real world reviews like yours. Still, I wonder what changes were made to the 2nd Gen - if any?

The motors are the same HP but different manufacturers. The inlet is the same. They changed the size of the filter for gen 2. The amp draw on the motor for gen 2 says 16 amp typical. I have my gen 1 on a 15 amp circuit with a couple other things plugged into it and I dont blow the breaker so maybe the newer motor is a little more powerful.

[Michael Ray]

The motors are the same HP but different manufacturers. The inlet is the same. They changed the size of the filter for gen 2. The amp draw on the motor for gen 2 says 16 amp typical. I have my gen 1 on a 15 amp circuit with a couple other things plugged into it and I dont blow the breaker so maybe the newer motor is a little more powerful.


Tim - thanks for the comparison.

[Jim Dwight]

You can do better than the Oneida drum price and the Wynn cartridge filter price. I found a steel drum from about $80 and I think a plastic was cheaper. But I am seriously thinking of getting a 30 gallon drum. I will have to empty it twice as much but I don't think I want to handle a full 55 gallon steel drum. I have several 30 gallon trash cans so my theory is to fill them from the DC drum then go to the dump when I have 3 or 4 full ones. I googled the cartridge mentioned in the Gray House Studios build and I think it is less than $100. I like the long narrow layout too and the area is greater than the Wynn. Fine filtering is about the same. I think I can buy the HF, the cyclone you are looking at, the cartridge and miscellaneous pieces for $600. I'd rather not have to do the build and I am sure the Oneida mini-gorilla would look better but I think the HF will work fine. I also plan to just leave it in one place and run piping to the tools it will hook to. So the nice mobile base of the Oneida is a waste for me.

Looks like performance is very similar but HF might be slightly better. And if it isn't enough, you can put in the Rikon impeller.

Not a lot of class in an upgraded HF and it will be some work but the price difference seems to large to ignore.

[Dave Sabo]

Any particular reason you’re not considering the fiber barrels from Oneida ? They come in several sizes and are lighter and cheaper.

[Michael Ray]

You can do better than the Oneida drum price and the Wynn cartridge filter price. I found a steel drum from about $80 and I think a plastic was cheaper. But I am seriously thinking of getting a 30 gallon drum. I will have to empty it twice as much but I don't think I want to handle a full 55 gallon steel drum. I have several 30 gallon trash cans so my theory is to fill them from the DC drum then go to the dump when I have 3 or 4 full ones. I googled the cartridge mentioned in the Gray House Studios build and I think it is less than $100. I like the long narrow layout too and the area is greater than the Wynn. Fine filtering is about the same. I think I can buy the HF, the cyclone you are looking at, the cartridge and miscellaneous pieces for $600. I'd rather not have to do the build and I am sure the Oneida mini-gorilla would look better but I think the HF will work fine. I also plan to just leave it in one place and run piping to the tools it will hook to. So the nice mobile base of the Oneida is a waste for me.

Looks like performance is very similar but HF might be slightly better. And if it isn't enough, you can put in the Rikon impeller.

Not a lot of class in an upgraded HF and it will be some work but the price difference seems to large to ignore.

Jim - Thanks for the reply and the suggestion to check out Gray House Studios. The cheapskate in me wouldn't allow me to go the route of the Mini Gorilla. (That and the fact that there wasn't a landslide endorsement of the Mini by members here.) So I've ordered all the parts to do the HF retrofit. Here's what's on the way: 5" SDD, 17" steel drum kit and Wynn 13F230NANO flanged filter with 13" filter pan. (I did consider Clear Vue's Filter Clean Out Box over Wynn's filter pan and probably should have gone in that direction to save a few dollars). Hopefully I'm up and collecting dust in the next couple of weeks.

[Jason Baker IX]

I know you made a decision and it will probably work well for you. Just in case others stumble on this thread in the future, I thought I would add some input. I replaced an older bag DC with the Oneida Mini Gorilla last fall and don't regret the decision for a minute. It really feels like the perfect solution for my particular shop space.

Keep in mind a few things. My shop space is tiny (about 100 sqft) and in my home basement. I required very good filtering. I mostly use hand tools and own very few machines (13" planer, 14" bandsaw) which are only used one at a time. Money wasn't a big factor and I'll always buy quality American tools when available. I needed a solution which was portable and maximized performance in the smallest amount of space. I feel like the mini-gorilla provided everything I needed in one integrated solution with minimal tradeoffs.

I connect a 5" hose from the oneida to a machine, only employing a reducer at the connection to the machine. The 2nd generation mini-gorilla is lighter and features a much better canister latching mechanism than the previous version. These features are appreciated even though I don't have to empty the canister more than twice a month in my shop. Hope this feedback helps someone else with their decision.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a 3hp cyclone, vented outside, and while it is pretty good, wish I had just purchased a 5hp cyclone and had it over with, rather than thinking about moving up a little at a time. Much cheaper to just go with the biggest hobby type cyclone one time.

[Ron Magliocco]

I’ve had my Harbor Freight DC with Wynn filter for 2 years of weekend hobby use. Worked great until last weekend when the impeller fell off the shaft in use. That’s a very alarming sound to hear when you’re in mid rip on a piece of hard maple.

HF will replace it because I bought the 2 yr protection plan but I think I might go with another brand as a replacement.

[Josh Kocher]

Get the best you can afford.

I suspect the Oneida would give you better performance and it's plug and play... but I don't have any experience with that model...

Better yet buy something used and make your budget go further. I see 3-5hp cyclones up for sale often on the used market.

[William Chain]

I picked up the mini gorilla in October 2017, 220V version. Aside from stuffing the filter once because I’m an idiot and didn’t check the bin, it’s been a great machine. I hook it up to each machine individually (though I’m tempted to put hard pipes on the walls with flex drops to each machine), and it keeps up with an 8” jointer, a cabinet saw, a 13” planer, a router table, a 16-32 drum sander, and various other setups just fine. My only gripe is wheeling it around - I’d like to do the ducting as I said above, but that’s hardly a knock on the product. It works great and I have no fine dust issues or complaints regarding filtration or separation.

[Jim Dwight]

Michael,

I used to have the Wynn filter and it worked well (it was on a little Delta AP400 that didn't flow enough to satisfy me). I like the price and shape of the one Gray House Studios used but not because the Wynn functions poorly, it doesn't. But I want to try something different on it. One idea on the mini-gorilla that seems interesting and potentially usefull is to put a shop vac connection instead of a bag on the filter. I think running the shop vac on the DC filter while puffing a little air through the filter may be a good way to clean the filter. And just hooking the shop vac up occasionally should extract anything that drops out of the filter in normal use.

Jim

[Michael Ray]

Michael,

I used to have the Wynn filter and it worked well (it was on a little Delta AP400 that didn't flow enough to satisfy me). I like the price and shape of the one Gray House Studios used but not because the Wynn functions poorly, it doesn't. But I want to try something different on it. One idea on the mini-gorilla that seems interesting and potentially usefull is to put a shop vac connection instead of a bag on the filter. I think running the shop vac on the DC filter while puffing a little air through the filter may be a good way to clean the filter. And just hooking the shop vac up occasionally should extract anything that drops out of the filter in normal use.

Jim

Jim -

Did you use the standard HF DC retro fit kit #35BA222NANO from Wynn? According to Wynn that filter has 222 sq. ft. of filtration area. The Oneida Mini Gorilla filter #FCS101935HF has 40 sq. ft. of filter area. A big difference. It's one of the reasons I decided to go ahead with the HF retrofit and not buy the Mini Gorilla.

[Jim Dwight]

Yes, I used the Wynn retrofit kit, it was close to 10 years ago but I used the kit available at that time. I think it had about the same area as the current one. The Oneida does look small, not sure what is up with that. The filter that Gray House Studios used has 300 ft2 but costs less than the Wynn. But if you want to reuse the HF bag holder to mount the filter, the Wynn would work better for that.

Jim

[Tim M Tuttle]

I picked up the mini gorilla in October 2017, 220V version. Aside from stuffing the filter once because I’m an idiot and didn’t check the bin, it’s been a great machine. I hook it up to each machine individually (though I’m tempted to put hard pipes on the walls with flex drops to each machine), and it keeps up with an 8” jointer, a cabinet saw, a 13” planer, a router table, a 16-32 drum sander, and various other setups just fine. My only gripe is wheeling it around - I’d like to do the ducting as I said above, but that’s hardly a knock on the product. It works great and I have no fine dust issues or complaints regarding filtration or separation.

My gorilla drove me crazy. It was always in the way. I wanted to duct it but Oneida told me the longest run it could handle was 15 feet so I compromised and did this:

403333

403334

403335

I have a ducted run to my table saw and the rest of the tools are hooked up via Rockler expandable flex hose. When I use the flex hose I only need about 10 feet of it to hook up to tools. I use all of it when I am cleaning up the shop. The DC isnt 100% effective setup like this but it's much more convenient. My next big shop purchase is a ClearVue CV1800.

[Michael Ray]

Finished the HF retrofit. 250 square feet of MERV 15 filtration. Thank you to the good folks here at the Creek who offered thoughts/advice with this project.
403718

[Brice Rogers]

I bought a 2 HP HF DC. It was okay but I want to avoid having any dust recirculated in my shop. So I added a Thien baffle. I could have bought a fine particle filter, but I live in a warm climate so I chose to vent it outside. At least 95% of the dust (perhaps much more) gets caught by the Thien baffle and goes into the 30 gallon galvanized trash can and the rest goes outside. I used the spiral-entry metal center section from a 1 HP HF DC for the Thien baffle. I picked up the 1 HP DC for $10 (it was plugged and perhaps the original owner didn't check it...). So, the catch barrel is a galvanized trash can (old and laying around), a plywood disk with a slot (for the baffle), the metal center section from the swap meet DC, another plywood disk and a flex tube from the top disk to the dust collector suction unit (mounted higher on the wall).

Like the original poster, I already owned the 2 HP DC when I started this. So my out of pocket cost of new things that I had to buy was minimal. Perhaps $15 for the flapper vent and $40-50 for some 6" galvanized snap vent pipe and a couple of fittings. It probably isn't as good as a bigger and more sophisticated $1500 system but it works just fine for me.

[Tom Hoppe]

Wanted to bump this, as I have the same scenario and was wondering how you're liking the HF retrofit.

I priced mine out at about $800 in parts (HF collector, 12" RIKON impeller, 20 gallon container, 5" SDD, HEPA filter, misc parts) and wondering if it's worth the extra $600 for the Mini Gorilla.

I like the idea of a molded, all inclusive setup, but I have a feeling that's all I'd be getting for the extra $600.

[David L Morse]

Wanted to bump this, as I have the same scenario and was wondering how you're liking the HF retrofit.

I priced mine out at about $800 in parts (HF collector, 12" RIKON impeller, 20 gallon container, 5" SDD, HEPA filter, misc parts) and wondering if it's worth the extra $600 for the Mini Gorilla.

I like the idea of a molded, all inclusive setup, but I have a feeling that's all I'd be getting for the extra $600.

Tom, if you are considering the HFDC with a Rikon fan you might want to consider this (https://www.amazon.com/WEN-3403-Woodworking-Collector-Collection/dp/B078BSVGMZ/ref=sr_1_17?keywords=dust+collector&link_code=qs&qid=1575114823&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-17). It looks like the HFDC with a 12" fan and a better motor for about the same price.

[Tom Hoppe]

Unfortunately I'm stuck with a 20 amp breaker. The description on that specifically states 25 amp breaker.

Is that the same thing with the HFDC? If so, I might have to pony up for the Mini Gorilla just for the amp limitation...

[David L Morse]

Unfortunately I'm stuck with a 20 amp breaker. The description on that specifically states 25 amp breaker.

Is that the same thing with the HFDC? If so, I might have to pony up for the Mini Gorilla just for the amp limitation...

I'm sure the 25A requirement is there to cover start current requirements. Start current depends upon both motor characteristics and load inertia. The start current value is a motor characteristic (specifically, Locked Rotor Current). The duration of that current value is determined by the rotational inertia of the load, in this case, the impeller.

The HFDC with Rikon transplant requires that the breaker can hold about 65A for about 4 seconds. The breaker's trip curve tells you what the breaker can do. Different brands of breakers have different trip curves. There's also a fairly wide tolerance in the trip curve for a given breaker part number.

I use SquareD QO breakers. According the the trip curve for these they are marginal. That is, 65A/4s is above the minimum and close to the nominal trip curve for these breakers. My breakers are QO and two of them at least will start the HFDC/Rikon combo. The Siemens trip curve I have should hold that easily. It varies.

I don't know what the WEN needs. It has a 12" steel impeller so likely the same inertia as the Rikon. The Gorilla is also 12" but is listed as non-ferrous so likely an Aluminum alloy. It should be lighter so maybe the Gorilla starts more easily.

I would guess that the WEN could be started by many 20A breakers but some will have trouble. With the 25A breaker listed as a requirement you can't order one just to try it on 20A and then send it back if it doesn't work. No seller likes returns.

[Jim Dwight]

Since my earlier postings I've installed my upgraded HF 2hp DC and I like it. I used only the motor and blower of the HF and have them on top of a super dust deputy that has 6 inch outlet and 5 inch inlet. I changed the HF to six inch inlet and used a heat gun to soften the cyclone outlet so it would conform. I also softened the cyclone inlet to get it to link to 5 inch snap lock piping running to my table saw. The cyclone sits on top of a shop made wood box with a plexiglass window so I can check level. It holds about 70 gallons and has wheels for easier movement. I also hook my planner and jointer to the DC by disconnecting the table saw and hooking up a long flex hose I got from Peachtree (seems equivalent to the Rockler for $10 less). I was surprised how well that works at the planner. The HF blower discharges outside through a 6 inch fitting meant for a dryer.

I may add the Rikon impeller but so far the HF seems to do what I need done without it.

My DC sits in about 18 inches of space in a corner of my shop. I like that since I have little floor space and the shop is typically too messy to easily roll anything around.

[Tom Hoppe]

Nice! I'll have a similar setup with the same 5" SDD along with the 6" dryer 90 degree into the filter.

So you're happy with just the HFDC without the Rikon impeller? I was thinking of going ahead with the $100 upgrade while I was getting everything put together. Wondering if that's even needed though, since the run I'll have is like 15 feet of flex hose right off the SDD into a tool and move it between tools. I don't have stationary tools, they are all on wheels, so the tool comes away from the wall to be used and I can just attach the hose from the DC to the tool.