Calipers

[Jim Allen]

There's a thread in "General Woodworking..." that mentioned calipers, which got me reminiscing. When I bought my first digital caliper 4 or 5 years ago, I transferred my dial caliper from my workshop to my office. The calipers I was using in my office, pictured here, got transferred to my tool bucket. Just like my digital this one (over 50 years old) does both inches and millimeters, proving what goes around comes around.

[Bruce Page]

That is a true vernier scale caliper. I have a 14” vernier caliper & a 10” vernier height gauge but both are becoming more difficult to read as I age..
I much prefer dial type calipers. I never liked the digital type and I tried several of them.

[Mike Henderson]

That is a true vernier scale caliper. I have a 14” vernier caliper & a 10” vernier height gauge but both are becoming more difficult to read as I age..
I much prefer dial type calipers. I never liked the digital type and I tried several of them.
I'm with you, Bruce, on liking dial calipers. The problem with the digital calipers is that the caliper has to round the measurement to the closest reading that it can display (that problem is called "quantization error"). With the dial caliper, you can see if it's a certain measurement and just a bit short or long.

Also, the dial calipers always work. You never go to use it and find that the battery is dead. They should make some of those digital calipers with solar faces, the way some wrist watches are made.

Mike

[lowell holmes]

I have a dial caliper. I like it.

[Jared Sankovich]

I hate digital calipers. Though I do like my digital micrometers

Dial calipers all the way

[Jim Becker]

Since I primarily use the digital calipers because of my CNC machine, I appreciate the actual numeric display as I have to type that number into the software for actual material thickness. Mine is good to four digits and also does fractional and metric. But I can see the appeal of a quality "traditional" caliper and did work well with a dial caliper for non-CNC stuff prior to getting the digital units, including the "over-under" approximation thing. Someone already mentioned eyes...the digital has helped me with that, too.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

I have, and use, dial, vernier, and digital calipers. In the shop I've been using a Starrett dial caliper with fractions reading. Works well.

[Andrew Seemann]

I had forgotten how much I don't miss vernier calipers:) The shop I used to work in had 12" and 24" Starretts I had to use occasionally. I much prefer digital for working in thousands or mm. For woodworking when I use a caliper, I like using a dial graduated in 1/64s. Not a fan of digital fractional calipers, the dial seems much easier to read. "57/64th" is harder to visualize than "a shade over 7/8s"

[Mike Henderson]

I have, and use, dial, vernier, and digital calipers. In the shop I've been using a Starrett dial caliper with fractions reading. Works well.

I have the Starrett fractional dial caliper. I started getting worried that the dirt and dust in the shop would cause it to fail so I bought the iGaging fractional dial caliper (https://www.amazon.com/iGaging-Fractional-Decimal-Combination-Caliper/dp/B005FRGF1Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548906114&sr=8-3&keywords=igaging+dial+caliper). It's really excellent - as accurate as the Starrett and operates pretty much the same (feel). I use that one in my shop now and don't worry about whether it will get gunked up. I see it's $30 now.

Mike

[Bill Dufour]

I have a pair of 6" dial calipers with two needles. one for metric one for English. I do not think it has a brand name on it. bought at a yard sale years ago.
Bil lD.

[Mike Henderson]

I posted yesterday about the iGaging fractional caliper and this morning I get an email from Popular Woodworking that one of their "Trusted Partners (https://www.chipsfly.com/product/30-152.html?k=pJCIuoaPQdDSX3RXLZ3Ktx8UrKGywI%2Bsp1bl3 xsIigs%3D&utm_medium=email&utm_source=deb&utm_campaign=pww-smo-deb-190131-craftsman-gallery)" has it on sale for $24. I don't know if that was just a coincidence or whether big brother is watching. But $24 is a good price for that caliper. And I've ordered other things from that company before.

Mike

[Oops, I don't know if they offer free shipping, so that may make it more expensive than from Amazon. Check before you click.]

[Jim Becker]

That is an excellent price, Mike...I paid $31.50 from Lee Valley.

[Gary Ragatz]

[Oops, I don't know if they offer free shipping, so that may make it more expensive than from Amazon. Check before you click.]

Just ordered one - $4.35 for standard shipping, so still $0.60 cheaper than Amazon (and it's always nice to support somebody other than Amazon).

[Frank Martin]

I would not have any worries with Chipsfly. It is owned by Lewis Stepp. I purchased a WoodRat from him 15 years ago. Then he released Router Boss, a much improved version. Great guy and takes care of his customers.

[John K Jordan]

...iGaging fractional caliper ... $24 ... Popular Woodworking "Trusted Partner"...
[Oops, I don't know if they offer free shipping, so that may make it more expensive than from Amazon. Check before you click.]

I called and asked. The guy said shipping to TN would be $4-$5, about $7 something if I ordered two. Amazon prime price at the moment is $29.95.

PS, I tried to check the amazon price history with camelcamelcamel. Their web page says they had a catastrophic server failure due to simultaneous failure of three drives. Expected to back up in a few days. Estimated cost is over $44K, about $30K of that for data recovery. Yikes.

JKJ

[Rod Sheridan]

You guys and fractions, that's so last century:D

I use a Mitutoyo digital caliper, works great since I work in metric...........I assume that a digital caliper in fractions displays the closest fraction in 64ths of an inch?

regards, Rod.

[John K Jordan]

You guys and fractions, that's so last century:D

I use a Mitutoyo digital caliper, works great since I work in metric...........I assume that a digital caliper in fractions displays the closest fraction in 64ths of an inch?

regards, Rod.

Fractions on digital calipers are about useless to me. Those I have start displaying the fraction a little before and stop displaying a little after the actual dimension. If I want to see if something is close to a specific fraction I have to move the caliper back and forth and look for the number. The dial calipers are so much quicker - one glance and I can see if something is precisely a specific fraction or if over or under, about how much.

I use both metric and decimal in the wood and metal shop, but the fractions are nice when dealing with things that come in fractions such as bolts and nuts and drill bits and things like acrylic rods and sheets.

JKJ

[Doug Dawson]

I have, and use, dial, vernier, and digital calipers. In the shop I've been using a Starrett dial caliper with fractions reading. Works well.

Since Starrett switched their caliper manufacturing to China, I've preferred Mitutoyo calipers. They're still made in Japan. My 30-year-old Mitutoyo dial caliper is as accurate as it ever was. In the woodshop, in my pocket, and anywhere else.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

I have the Starrett fractional dial caliper. I started getting worried that the dirt and dust in the shop would cause it to fail so I bought the iGaging fractional dial caliper (https://www.amazon.com/iGaging-Fractional-Decimal-Combination-Caliper/dp/B005FRGF1Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548906114&sr=8-3&keywords=igaging+dial+caliper). It's really excellent - as accurate as the Starrett and operates pretty much the same (feel). I use that one in my shop now and don't worry about whether it will get gunked up. I see it's $30 now.

Mike
Mike, I had the same concerns so I keep it in it's case and in a drawer. Hopefully this will alleviate the dust messing it up.

[Warren Lake]

had a mititoyuo for at least 30 years, and used and abused always in a bad enviroment and still works perfect. Very high quality device and batteries last a long time in them.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I had the same concerns so I keep it in it's case and in a drawer. Hopefully this will alleviate the dust messing it up.

I keep mine in its case in a drawer in my mechanic's toolbox. I still use it, but for a lot of work, I now use the iGaging caliper. I found that the iGaging was accurate.

I have a number of Mitutoyo tools and agree that they're very good tools. I don't have one of their calipers because I like the fractional dial calipers and I don't think they make one of those.

Mike

[John K Jordan]

I keep mine in its case in a drawer in my mechanic's toolbox. I still use it, but for a lot of work, I now use the iGaging caliper. I found that the iGaging was accurate.

I have a number of Mitutoyo tools and agree that they're very good tools. I don't have one of their calipers because I like the fractional dial calipers and I don't think they make one of those.

Mike

I have a Mitutoyo and an older Starrett and while both are accurate (I can't tell any difference between either and the iGaging or another digital I have) I like the feel of the Mitutoyo better than either of the others.

JKJ

[Warren Lake]

never worried about dust or anything for that matter.


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[Greg R Bradley]

That iGauging fractional/digital seems like a great idea for someone stuck, like most of us, with using fractions for some items. Going to be accurate enough for woodworking and even measuring associated items like drill bits, etc. With 1" per revolution and each line on the dial being 0.01", it is never going to be as accurate as a machinist dial caliper where they would have 0.1" per revolution and one line being 0.001". Seems like it might be about perfect for woodworking.
I saw Starrett had a simliar idea on one but it had 0.1" markings on the body of the caliper and the iGauging has fractions on the body. That Starrett is made in China so is certainly no better in quality than the iGauging and far more expensive. I hope some of the Starrett caliper manufacturing is still in the US with their super high quality. I know all of their digital calipers are made in China and nobody wants those anymore.
It seems Mitutoyo simply owns the high quality caliper market at this point. Warren's experience above is typical. I have the newer version of that caliper and it is still on the original battery at almost 3 years. It is accurate well under 0.0005" up to 4" and hits a max error of 0.0005" at 5.65-6". Simply amazing accuracy. If you want better dust/water/oil protection than that one, they also make them in IP67 protection. Also offer carbide jaws on OD part or both OD/ID.

[Tom M King]

I forget when I bought these. At that time Mitutoyo was considered a cheaper manufacturer, but really good for the money. They're digital, as well as standard reading, and the battery lasts almost forever. Checked to old Starret standards, they're still dead on.

[Tom M King]

I still find the cheap ones useful too.
http://historic-house-restoration.com/images/windows3_011.JPG

[Jim Becker]

Tom, I started with one pretty nearly identical to the one you just showed...but found out the hard way it wasn't quite as accurate as expected once I got the sturdier iGuaging caliper plus their thickness gage. I had been having some anomalies show up on some CNC work which is why I bought the additional units. That said, the inexpensive versions are just fine for non-CNC woodworking, IMHO.

[Greg R Bradley]

Jim,
If you have a "Mitutoyo" that looked like the one Tom shows in his last post, there is a reason you didn't find it incredibly accurate. Those are counterfeit. Sadly, Mitutoyo is the most heavily counterfeited item.
Here is the new version of the micrometer Tom showed and the real version of the caliper. Both on the same 0.02000 Micrometer Calibration Standard.
Interesting the most common counterfeit calipers have the fourth digit shown smaller where the real Mitutoyo show the last digit full size. I actually think it makes more sense to show it smaller since it is actually 0 or 5. Half a thousandth, not an actual ten thousandth of course.
.402556
Some of the counterfeited Mitutoyo calipers are quite useful since some of them are pretty accurate and can be bought at about $8 in quantity. This is what most of the new, or even lightly used, units are on eBay. Sadly, even Amazon.

Edited to add:
I meant to comment on your use of calipers as you mentioned the fourth digit aka tenths or ten thousandths as in 0.0001". There is no caliper that is accurate to tenths. Even really accurate ones state 0.001 for smaller sizes although the ones above show a fourth digit. That digit is actually a 0 or 5. The display of "5" in the last place just mean three digits plus a bit but not enough to read the next thousandth. Even on calipers like those that spec accurate to 0.001" but have the fourth digit, you would not want to make any assumptions about tenths without buying ones with a calibration cert or by checking them against standard. Even good micrometers have a tough time with accuracy at tenths as there is a lot of feel and technique involved in accurately measuring tenths.

[Jim Becker]

No, it wasn't a Mitutoyo...it was a cheap one. :) It was off "just enough" to cause problems with my particular application, but otherwise, it would be just fine for general woodworking.

[Doug Dawson]

Jim,
If you have a "Mitutoyo" that looked like the one Tom shows in his last post, there is a reason you didn't find it incredibly accurate. Those are counterfeit.

Some of the counterfeited Mitutoyo calipers are quite useful since some of them are pretty accurate and can be bought at about $8 in quantity. This is what most of the new, or even lightly used, units are on eBay. Sadly, even Amazon.

If you do a google search of "c (https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=counterfeit+mitutoyo+calipers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)ounterfeit mitutoyo calipers" there's a lot of discussion about it. I haven't heard of amazon itself as a vendor selling fakes, but I suppose it could happen. It's good to be able to check.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’ve had the same experience as Greg, once you start measuring tenths with any kind of reliable accuracy the gauges can be a touch more expensive and they work differently. Outside of a controlled environment the information may not be useful.

The mitutoyo gauges we use at Kezurou-kai for measuring microns are special made for it. It’s easy to disturb such a minute thing so the gauges drop onto the surface rather than turning down to it like a normal mic. This eliminates operator influence.

[Greg R Bradley]

If you do a google search of "c (https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=counterfeit+mitutoyo+calipers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)ounterfeit mitutoyo calipers" there's a lot of discussion about it. I haven't heard of amazon itself as a vendor selling fakes, but I suppose it could happen. It's good to be able to check.
What seems to happen with Amazon is they assign a specific item number to something that is sold by Amazon. Amazon stocks their own stuff of course. They also stock the supposedly same item from other sellers and those all go in the same bin. So when Amazon sells item xyz, it comes out of bin xyz. When another Amazon seller has them stock and ship xyz it goes in the same bin. When either sells it, it comes out of that bin.
I would hope Amazon eventually figures out that if they are an authorized dealer for Mitutoyo, they will have to clean up their act. I've even got serial numbers for each batch of incoming parts in an auto parts store. We were eventually figuring out that if we bought 5 of something from a vendor, they each get the same serial number. If one of them is incorrect, you might suspect the whole batch. Solution was to inspect each item coming in as the other way is when you receive 5 they would each get a unique serial number.
One common valve tappet is running 80%+ incorrect. Spec is 1.374 +-0.0002. Most of the incorrect parts are 1.373 meaning they are smaller than a typical totally worn out part.

[Doug Dawson]

What seems to happen with Amazon is they assign a specific item number to something that is sold by Amazon. Amazon stocks their own stuff of course. They also stock the supposedly same item from other sellers and those all go in the same bin. So when Amazon sells item xyz, it comes out of bin xyz. When another Amazon seller has them stock and ship xyz it goes in the same bin. When either sells it, it comes out of that bin.

Do you have sources for that?

[Greg R Bradley]

Do you have sources for that?
Relating personal experience, not what someone else posted on the internet.

Selling items on Amazon and had customer complaints. Items they received are not the item we had Amazon warehouse. Remember our items have our label and a serial/batch number. Other sellers providing an item that is cheap junk pretending to be the real thing. We sold them and they shipped the other to the customer. All in the same bin, right?

In business and personally, I have received around 40 items bought on Amazon that are counterfeit. Probably getting to ten Mitutoyo counterfeit items. One is outgoing UPS right now.

Now hearing of sellers not having Amazon warehouse items because of the same problem but that isn't personal experience.

SO, if you know what isn't real, you can always return it to Amazon. SO, you are protected. You do need to know the difference. Last one was a lot closer than this obvious fake, which someone buying their first might not spot:
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[Doug Dawson]

Relating personal experience, not what someone else posted on the internet.

Selling items on Amazon and had customer complaints. Items they received are not the item we had Amazon warehouse. Remember our items have our label and a serial/batch number. Other sellers providing an item that is cheap junk pretending to be the real thing. We sold them and they shipped the other to the customer. All in the same bin, right?

In business and personally, I have received around 40 items bought on Amazon that are counterfeit. Probably getting to ten Mitutoyo counterfeit items. One is outgoing UPS right now.

Now hearing of sellers not having Amazon warehouse items because of the same problem but that isn't personal experience.

Here was an interesting article on amazon's vendor practices, from a few months ago:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18140799/amazon-marketplace-scams-seller-court-appeal-reinstatement

Is there no end to the venality.

I was hoping for something similar (in the press, etc.) Amazon might respond to that if it made it out to the public.

[John Gulick]

Only dial for me, a Starrett in my desk and cheapie from Amazon for $17.93 for the guys in the shop. Cheapie works just fine.

[lawrence munninghoff]

Taylor toolworks is selling the iGaging Fractional Dial Caliper for $24 on Ebay. Free shipping also.