A Tale of Two Saws

[Jason Lester]

I had been using Japanese-style saws for dovetails and rough crosscuts and rips. They never felt right to me though. I bought a Cosman dovetail saw last year and really like it. I decided to get a couple more Western-style saws for rough crosscuts and rips. I ended up first getting a Disston D8 from Pete Taran. It was one of his "saw filing kits" where he cuts new teeth and sends the appropriate file to sharpen it. I had him do 7 PPI and filed it for rip.

Here is when I got it, after removing the screws, but before doing anything to the handle or plate:

402319

I used naval jelly and wet/dry sandpaper on a block to clean the plate up. I sanded the handle down with 120 and up through 220. The plate got a coat of wax on it. The handle got BLO, then shellac, then a few coats of General Finishes High Performance. I cleaned the screws with brass brushes and polishing wheels on a Dremel. It came out really nice:

402318

The medallion and etch seem to be from around 1920 as best I can tell. I have never sharpened a saw at all, but following Pete's articles along with a few videos got me on my way. The sharpening wasn't bad, but I had trouble with my saw set. I think I set the teeth too wide, but it still does a good job:
402320

Since crosscut sharpening is more difficult, I decided to buy a saw that was already sharpened from Mike Allen for that. He sent me several pics of saws he had and I picked another D8 that was panel sized. He sharpened it at 8 PPI and did a great job. It goes through wood like crazy. He also found patent dates stamped into the handle that date it pretty early, around 1880 from what I've read.

Here's a pic of the handle showing the stamps and the medallion:

402322

Crosscutting some poplar:

402321

The pair of saws:
402323

The handles look nearly identical until you place them on top of each other. The panel saw handle is noticeably smaller. It also feels more comfortable in the hand to me than the full size saw. I don't know if that's the difference between a panel size versus full size or the 40 years difference in when they were made.

I'm very pleased with both saws. You all got me into buying several planes, then chisels, now some saws, what's next? It's great to have members on SMC that are willing to help those of us learning more about traditional tools and what to look for. I got both these saws for way less than a premium saw from one of the current makers. I can definitely recommend either Pete or Mike if you're looking for a good vintage saw!

Thanks, Jason

[lowell holmes]

**WARNING**
You are on a slippery slope. I did what you are starting and now I have 13 Disston saws now.
I only use about four of them.

[Pete Taran]

Jason,

Glad your saw turned out so well. If it cuts and you learned something, that is all that matters. As to the set, if you have a micrometer, measure the plate above the teeth, and then the set where the teeth are. If you can report those numbers back here, I can give you an idea if they are overset or just right.

If there is too much set, it's not the end of the world. I sometimes get saws like this and I just place it on a steel anvil and tap each tooth all the way down the saw until I reach the end and then flip it over and do the same thing on the other side. That works really well and is very effective. Sometimes it takes several passes. You can even use a carpenters hammer as long as it doesn't have a serrated face.

Pete

[Phil Mueller]

Jason, very nice rehab. Saw looks great. And yes, we are very fortunate to have Pete and Mike here at SMC...

[Joe Bailey]

Congratulation on your first saw sharpening attempt.

I was trying to figure out what seemed odd to me about your photos, and then it hit me.
Every one of my Disston D-8 (and D8) panel saws has only four bolts (including the medallion).

To be clear, I consider 16, 18, 20, 22 & 24 inch saws to be panel saws.

Hopefully Pete will chime in here.

[Jim Koepke]

You have a couple of nice looking saws there.

That is a good start. :D

jtk

[lowell holmes]

This site might interest you. I have one and a small saw horse the same height for supporting a long board if needed. I forgot that it was a Swartz design.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/traditional_sawbench/

[lowell holmes]

Check this site

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/panel-saws-panel-saw-crosscut-

We talked about this two years ago.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?264431-Panel-saw-definition&p=2807372#post2807372

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?262905-What-do-you-consider-a-panel-saw-to-be

[Pete Taran]

Well Joe, I'm not sure we ever arrived at a firm definition for what a panel saw was. :D


Congratulation on your first saw sharpening attempt.

I was trying to figure out what seemed odd to me about your photos, and then it hit me.
Every one of my Disston D-8 (and D8) panel saws has only four bolts (including the medallion).

To be clear, I consider 16, 18, 20, 22 & 24 inch saws to be panel saws.

Hopefully Pete will chime in here.

[Joe Bailey]

Pete,

Thanks so much for the really helpful help -- I owe you one.

[Jason Lester]

Congratulation on your first saw sharpening attempt.

I was trying to figure out what seemed odd to me about your photos, and then it hit me.
Every one of my Disston D-8 (and D8) panel saws has only four bolts (including the medallion).

To be clear, I consider 16, 18, 20, 22 & 24 inch saws to be panel saws.

Hopefully Pete will chime in here.

Here's a better shot of the handles on top of each other. The horns are lined up at the back, you can see the panel saw's handle is just smaller in scale all around. This one is a 22" plate.

402342

Another difference I just noticed, the slot for the plate goes all the way through the lamb's tongue area on the panel saw:

402341

The slot and the 5 screw setup all seem to be original as far as I can tell. The handle has no repairs to it either.

[Jason Lester]

Jason,

Glad your saw turned out so well. If it cuts and you learned something, that is all that matters. As to the set, if you have a micrometer, measure the plate above the teeth, and then the set where the teeth are. If you can report those numbers back here, I can give you an idea if they are overset or just right.

If there is too much set, it's not the end of the world. I sometimes get saws like this and I just place it on a steel anvil and tap each tooth all the way down the saw until I reach the end and then flip it over and do the same thing on the other side. That works really well and is very effective. Sometimes it takes several passes. You can even use a carpenters hammer as long as it doesn't have a serrated face.

Pete

It looks like I have about .020" of set on this one. The one Mike did for me has .010". I was using the Somax set and had some issues with it, or at least with my technique. When I was squeezing it, it was sliding up the tooth and not setting properly, just kind of squirting past it. I thought I didn't have it set right, so I increased the depth on the anvil. I then figured out I needed to hold it down tighter, but left it at the higher setting and finished the rest of the saw. I see the 42X is recommended for one because of the way it grips the tooth to keep it from sliding up. I'm going to use it some more and see how well it goes before doing anything else to it. Even at .020", it's still way less than my old junker Stanley and Great Neck saws!

Jason

[Pete Taran]

That is twice as much as is likely needed. Tap it out and keep rolling.

[Brian Eaton]

I know of Pete Taran’s Website, but out of ignorance, does Mike Allen have one? Tried googling and didn’t find anything

[steven c newman]

And...a look at a 4 bolt version...
402353
Etch on this saw has the 8 inside the D....20" length....has "10" stamped under the handle area...

[Jason Lester]

That is twice as much as is likely needed. Tap it out and keep rolling.

I took a hammer and anvil on Saturday and just slid the saw along as I tapped it with the hammer. It seemed to work well. The saw starts easier and saws better.

What rake does your toother put in? I didn't change anything as I filed, I just followed what was there. It seemed to be close to zero since the top of the file was level, or nearly so.

Thanks, Jason

[lowell holmes]

Per the Distonian Institute and
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/panel-saws-panel-saw-crosscut-

[Mike Allen1010]

I know of Pete Taran’s Website, but out of ignorance, does Mike Allen have one? Tried googling and didn’t find anything

Brian,

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify; Pete Taran is "The Man" when it comes to vintage handsaw's. I certainly can't speak for Pete, but I believe he started Independence Saw, one of the earliest boutique back saw manufacturers, that ultimately became the back/joinery saws Lie Nielsen sells today. Beyond that, Pete is one of the leading authorities in the world on vintage saws and his site vintage saws.com is to my mind the best source of classic, vintage Western handsaw's and related information on the Internet today.

The whole reason I got started with hand tool woodworking many years ago was purchasing a pair of Disston handsaw's from Pete. His saws were the revelation that help me realize I really didn't need that tablesaw (thanks Pete!). In comparison I'm just a rank amateur with way too many saws who enjoys occasionally passing them on to fellow Neanders, typically for the benefit of deserving charities.

Bottom line; if you're in the market for a quality, classic vintage handsaw you can absolutely depend on being straight, solid, exceptionally well sharpened/tuned and ready to go, Pete is your guy. I can honestly say I am a loooong time, extremely satisfied customer and give my highest possible recommendation to Pete personally and to vintage saws.com.

Pete has always been extremely generous in sharing his world-class knowledge and expertise with Neanders on SMC and the greater hand tool woodworking community. I'm confident you'll be thrilled with any saw you get from Pete – I know I have been for many years.

All the best, Mike

[John Stevens]

I'm just a rank amateur...
Mike, you’re way too modest. Another Creeker sold me a D8 you sharpened, and it cuts wonderfully. I own several Disston saws, and without any disrespect to them, yours is a cut above the others (please excuse the bad pun).

[Joe Tilson]

Good start Jason. If you get the bug like I did you will have over 60 hand saws before you get done. I just can't stand to see them and a lady eyeing to paint them. I saved a Sandvik 280 10 tpi and 1950's D-8 5 !/2 tpi rip a few weeks ago. Total $5.00.

[Jason Lester]

Mike can definitely sharpen. Here's a cut with the panel saw he did for me in the earlier pictures. This is a 1x12 board that I crosscut with it. I put the square next to the cut line to show how straight. Keep in mind I'm a novice with a hand saw and still learning and getting the mechanics down. This was really impressive for me and the straightest I've ever sawn something like this by hand.

403076

[Tom Bender]

Brian,

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify; Pete Taran is "The Man" when it comes to vintage handsaw's. I certainly can't speak for Pete, but I believe he started Independence Saw, one of the earliest boutique back saw manufacturers, that ultimately became the back/joinery saws Lie Nielsen sells today. Beyond that, Pete is one of the leading authorities in the world on vintage saws and his site vintage saws.com is to my mind the best source of classic, vintage Western handsaw's and related information on the Internet today.

The whole reason I got started with hand tool woodworking many years ago was purchasing a pair of Disston handsaw's from Pete. His saws were the revelation that help me realize I really didn't need that tablesaw (thanks Pete!). In comparison I'm just a rank amateur with way too many saws who enjoys occasionally passing them on to fellow Neanders, typically for the benefit of deserving charities.

Bottom line; if you're in the market for a quality, classic vintage handsaw you can absolutely depend on being straight, solid, exceptionally well sharpened/tuned and ready to go, Pete is your guy. I can honestly say I am a loooong time, extremely satisfied customer and give my highest possible recommendation to Pete personally and to vintage saws.com.

Pete has always been extremely generous in sharing his world-class knowledge and expertise with Neanders on SMC and the greater hand tool woodworking community. I'm confident you'll be thrilled with any saw you get from Pete – I know I have been for many years.

All the best, Mike


Well that should make the green troll turn a little pink with embarrassment.