Using Dowels??

[Ed Gibbons]

I want to use 3/4” dowel. Problem is the dowel is a bit smaller in circumference than my 3/4” drill bit. What is the best solution?

[Jim Becker]

You ideally need a tiny bit of room if you'll be gluing, so in that case, unless it's unbelievably sloppy, you should be fine. If this is for alignment and not getting glued, you'll probably need to source or make dowel stock that is more precise in measurement. The stuff that sits around in stores gets dryer and dryer and shrinks as a result.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Jim. If you are using yellow glue you can thin it with a little water. 4 percent is max according to mfg.

[Gregory King]

Can't see why the dowel should be loose. We used the 3/8" fluted at work with the same size bit and they fit well. Might have to use an undersize bit. Metric perhaps?

[Mike Henderson]

You can get drill bits in 64ths. Check the size of your dowel and get a bit that matches. To avoid the problem of a tight fit preventing glue from coming out, you can cut a couple of grooves along the side of the dowel and that will provide relief for the glue. Easiest way to cut the grooves is to use a saw - chuck the dowel in a vise horizontally and just saw a groove along the side. You don't need to go very deep.

Mike

[Dan Baginski]

As long as it’s not a sloppy fit the glue will take up the rest of the space.

[Edwin Santos]

Could you provide a little more information about what you are doing with the dowel? Joinery of some kind, alignment, as a handle or a hook?

[Jamie Buxton]

When I need a dowel of a specific diameter, I take my micrometer to the store with me.

[Ed Gibbons]

I am building a ladder. I will route dados to fit the steps but instead of screws on the end, I want to use dowels.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Dig up a scrap of steel.

Drill a hole in it with your 3/4" bit.

Buy a 7/8" diameter dowel and pound it through the hole you just drilled.

Next use a pair of pliers or channel locks to both compress & flute the 3/4" dowel you just created - (not to worry - once the water in the glue hits it, the wood will swell enough to form a very tight fit).

[Matt Schroeder]

Could you soak the dowel in water to swell it a bit, then use a water cured glue to make the joint? Try soaking a dowel and test the fit. Not sure if that would lead to a weak joint, just a thought to consider.

Matt

[David Stone (CT)]

In my experience, smooth sided dowel stock sold in long lengths--like you get at a hardware store, Home Depot or lumberyard-- is not very accurately or consistently sized to begin with. And especially in the bigger diameters like you're talking, it can distort out of round as it dries out after manufacturing. The 1/4" and 3/8" grooved dowels produced specifically for joinery use are much better, but I've never seen that made in 3/4.

I've made peg racks for holding clamps, rolls of tape and hoses in the shop using undersized 5/8" and 3/4" dowels that were wobbly in the hole prior to gluing and they're doing fine. But that's not a critical application. If fit is important -- and I imagine it is for joinery on a ladder :-)-- I agree with the suggestion that you take calipers or a micrometer, or a piece of test stock drilled with the bit you're using, to the store to identify which pieces, if any, are close enough to size to buy. Slightly oversized is acceptable since it can be sanded down to a fit without much trouble.

...And, lastly, verify that you're using a drill bit and set up capable of drilling accurately enough for this purpose.

[Bradley Gray]

I am building a ladder. I will route dados to fit the steps but instead of screws on the end, I want to use dowels.

I would use screws. 10 times the holding power, 1/10 as much wood removed from the stringer and you can tighten it when things inevitably loosen.

[Edwin Santos]

I am building a ladder. I will route dados to fit the steps but instead of screws on the end, I want to use dowels.

If I understand correctly, the dowel will be in a through hole. In a case like this, I would cut a slot in the end of the dowel, tap in a thin hardwood wedge with glue, and trim flush when cured. This will cause the dowel to flare slightly in the hole and make a very very tight joint, one that will not come apart. Interestingly it's a case when you would want the dowel to be a little undersized like what you are experiencing. As a bonus, it will look cool.

[Al Launier]

If I understand correctly, the dowel will be in a through hole. In a case like this, I would cut a slot in the end of the dowel, tap in a thin hardwood wedge with glue, and trim flush when cured. This will cause the dowel to flare slightly in the hole and make a very very tight joint, one that will not come apart. Interestingly it's a case when you would want the dowel to be a little undersized like what you are experiencing. As a bonus, it will look cool.

This!
Plus if you need to score the length of each dowel you could drill an oversized hole in a piece of scrap wood, drive a nail through one side so it emerges slightly into the hole, then hammer the dowel through the hole to make the glues sores.

[Mike Henderson]

I am building a ladder. I will route dados to fit the steps but instead of screws on the end, I want to use dowels.

If you're worried about the screws rusting, use stainless steel screws. Screws are stronger and you want the safest techniques on a ladder.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

If I understand correctly, the dowel will be in a through hole. In a case like this, I would cut a slot in the end of the dowel, tap in a thin hardwood wedge with glue, and trim flush when cured. This will cause the dowel to flare slightly in the hole and make a very very tight joint, one that will not come apart. Interestingly it's a case when you would want the dowel to be a little undersized like what you are experiencing. As a bonus, it will look cool.

If you do this, when you align the slot in the end of the dowel (when you put it into the side of the ladder) you want the slot running side-to-side, not up-and-down. The reason is that when you drive the wedge into the dowel, you want the force along the grain, not across the grain. If across the grain, it can cause the wood in the side to split. It might not split with the first dowel, but after you do a bunch you may find a long split in the side of the ladder.

But I wouldn't use dowels.

Mike

[Edwin Santos]

If you do this, when you align the slot in the end of the dowel (when you put it into the side of the ladder) you want the slot running side-to-side, not up-and-down. The reason is that when you drive the wedge into the dowel, you want the force along the grain, not across the grain. If across the grain, it can cause the wood in the side to split. It might not split with the first dowel, but after you do a bunch you may find a long split in the side of the ladder.

But I wouldn't use dowels.

Mike

This is a very good point with regard to the grain orientation.

Again, if I understand the project properly, these are ladders steps sitting in dadoes cut into the ladder rails. Personally, I don't think screws are "stronger" in this application than large dowels, but either way, it makes no practical difference since the only purpose of the screws or dowels is to laterally secure the steps.
When the ladder is in use, the load placed on each step will bear on the dado ledge.

I'm thinking the goal may be aesthetic which is to say the pegged look of dowels versus visible screw heads or even plugged screw heads.

Edwin

[Brian Holcombe]

The screws would be going into end grain? Or side grain supports running through the wood crossways?

[Steve Schoene]

Titebond is not a good gap filler. If you can’t find the right size drill bit you could use epoxy glue which is a much better gap filler. It’s not so easily reversible if that’s an issue. It’s also messy to use.

[Brian Holcombe]

The way dowels function I would want them tight, they’re going to expand slightly with glue and make a mechanical connection supported by a minor long grain connection.

[David Powell]

You can always make your own dowels. Search google for "Make your own dowels on a router table".

[lowell holmes]

I would make a hole in a scrap 2x4 , glue a dowel in it, let it dry over night.
The next day, I would inspect the joint. If adjustment was needed, I would know what to do.

[Mel Fulks]

When I used dowels often I would drive them through an inch thick steel plate. Both sides had slightly countersunk holes.
I thinned the yellow glue just a little. I always kept a sample for non believers, told them to bandsaw thru center of dowel
to test. The half dowels would always break ,never separating from the block. The compression made sure there was glue
between dowel and work, much better than all glue at the bottom !

[Myk Rian]

Could you soak the dowel in water to swell it a bit, then use a water cured glue to make the joint? Try soaking a dowel and test the fit. Not sure if that would lead to a weak joint, just a thought to consider.

Matt
And when the dowel dries, it shrinks, breaking the bond.



You can always make your own dowels. Search google for "Make your own dowels on a router table".
This is what I do. A 3/8" roundover bit makes a 3/4" dowel

[Mike Henderson]

What I've observed on commercial wooden step ladders is that they run a metal rod across the underside of each step with a small block between the underside of the step and the metal rod in the middle of the step. This keeps the two sides from separating while also giving a bit of support to the middle of the step.

Mike