Tips on making blind grooves by hand?

[Rob Luter]

Greetings from currently frigid Michiana. The cold weather means more shop time (yay!) and I'm working on a little project that's thrown up a challenge.

The task at hand is a finger jointed box with large finger joints in the style of Greene and Greene. The top and bottom of the box will be held captive by a groove around the perimeter of the inside. Where these grooves line up with the sockets they are quick work with my small plow plane. Where they line up with the pins, the need to be put in blind so they don't show after assembly.

I drilled a hole at each end of the groove to establish the stops, then realized that the skate of my plow plane can't drop into the groove because it rides on the ungrooved portion of the pin. Oops.

I can always break out my palm router, but I'd rather stick to Neander methods. A chisel promises an imprecise groove in my mind. I don't have a small router plane.

Ideas from the Creek Collective?

Thanks in advance.

[James Pallas]

I did this just yesterday. My method is, use an azebiki saw and a straight edge to cut both sides almost to depth. Remove most of the waste with a chisel. Used a small router plane to finish. Goes quickly and accurately.
Jim

[Phil Mueller]

Hi Rob, BTDT. My smart aleck answer would be to take some of the money you just made selling tools and buy a small router plane :D. But if this is a bit of a one off project, I’d probably scribe the outside lines and use a chisel. You can use a mortise marking guage to scribe. Keep in mind, even with a router plane, you’ll want to scribe the outside lines. And if you do go the chisel route, remember, the bottom of the groove doesn’t have to be perfect...no one will see it, but the scribe lines are important to ensure against tear out. I rescribe as needed down to about half the depth...at that point, the tear out risk is minimal.

For small runs, I’ve used a properly sized carving gouge between the scribe lines to hog out the bulk. While neander isn’t necessarily slower, it often can be...part of the zen. Otherwise, take a deep breath and pull out the palm router. No one will know, but you.

[Frederick Skelly]

Rob,
Here's a previous thread with a lot of ideas, including a jig for the small plow to do it. LINK (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?263168-How-do-I-make-a-stopped-groove-in-a-dovetail&highlight=)
Fred

[Rob Luter]

....take some of the money you just made selling tools and buy a small router plane :D...

A solid plan B :rolleyes:

[lowell holmes]

After all, woodworkers tend to purchase tools as they need them.

I have one of these.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57678\\

You can make stopped grooves by drilling a short depth hole at the ends of the groove and then planing the groove.

If you need chisels the proper width, Lee Valley can provide those as well.

[Pat Barry]

Its not specified how large the box is. It sounds like a small box. With this in mind I would break out the palm router and get it done. One option, however, is to make the grooves full length and t jen, carefully, select wood grain to match and create plugs. This may or may not be satisfactory. Another option is to redesign the bix to implement a support piece from underneath in place of the groove. This won't work on the top very well. Other redesigns might be practical. This points out that design is important - if it can't be built per the design, then the design is not that good.

[Jim Koepke]

If you have a plow plane like the Veritas or a Stanley #45 it isn't terribly difficult. Here is one way:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242089

A Stanley #55 has an additional screw that is normally stowed near the slitter. There is a threaded spot for it on the movable skate. It will rest against the blade to help keep it from moving during the process. With a #45 or other plane it is important to make sure the blade is properly aligned with each cut. When two pieces with stopped groves are required, it is best to work them side by side or work on one piece before cutting them apart.

jtk

[Scott Winners]

http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters/Woodworking/2/4/article2-4.htm I didn't know what a "skate " was a s a plow pane part, so thanks.

With my limited tooling I would probably drill the ends, as you have already done, score the sides, get started with a chisel and then finish with a router plane. This is exactly why I bought a router plane from Canada instead of an antique or one from Maine. The catalog for the Canadian one has a bunch of different blade widths listed - in case I have that problem some day.

Through dadoes aren't so bad with a flat chisel or hogging and paring, single stop not so bad, but for a dado with a stop at each end a flat chisel just isn't going to work well. May a crank or swan neck chisel?

[Matthew Hills]

Kari Hultman covered her early foray into this in her blog (mortising chisel and then plow plane):
http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2010/04/stopped-dadoes-and-drawer-runners.html

The advice on cutting the walls first and then chiseling/router-planing the waste is the other approach I've seen.
In Japanese videos, you often see their azebiki used to saw the walls for dadoes.
I've also seen a stair saw (https://literaryworkshop.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/how-to-use-a-stair-saw/) recommended for this, as well.
Not sure if the gramercy veneer saw (https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/GT-VSAW.XX/You_can_read_more_about_the_saw_here?searchterm=gr amercy%20saw) has enough cut depth


Matt

[Brian Holcombe]

Mark with a knife, then chisel them and finish with a router plane. I hate making blind grooves so I've planned them out of everything I make.

For dados, an Azebiki works well.

[Jim Koepke]

An earlier post of mine mentioned a thread of mine about making stopped cuts using a Stanley #45 or similar plane. Here is an earlier thread about the same subject:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?196104

A new post was added to that thread this evening with this little bit from the Stanley #55 instructions about making a chamfer on a corner:

402195

This technique can be also used to make stopped cuts.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. As Pat speculated, it is a fairly small box, with these particular grooves being under 12" long. I found I have a 1/4" blade for my Stanley #71 and will give that a try .The wood in this case is QS White Oak and it tends to fight back a little, so I'm not sure how clean the groove would wind up. I guess that's why you try a test piece first. If it looks bad I'll swallow my pride and break out the palm router.

[Zach Dillinger]

Bore a hole with a center bit or a Forstner bit at each end of the groove, being careful not to poke the central pike out on the show face. Plow out with a router plane. Clean up the ends to square with a chisel.